Obox-ob and the Eladrin

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Nerrin's picture
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Obox-ob and the Eladrin

In short: I keep running into a reference that Obox-ob has some kind of grudge against the eladrin, "who played a part in his downfall." (Almost everything I get from Google is someone repeating that line.) But, the given timeline of the Law/Chaos War goes:

* Obox-ob is Prince of Demons
* The Queen of Chaos mostly kills Obox-ob and elevates Miska in his place
* War, war, war, vaati, war, war, battle of Pesh, Chaos runs home crying
* Then the eladrin head over to the Abyss to kick in some heads

So, yeah, I'm wondering where this oft-repeated line about the eladrin and Obox-ob comes from. Things don't seem to line up. Is there just some bit I keep missing somewhere?

It'd actually be really advantageous for me if the eladrin did have a hand in Obox-ob's downfall and other early events in the Law/Chaos War. I'm fiddling with a sort of chaos-focused parallel to the Ahriman/Jazirian story, and confirmation of the early involvement of eladrin in the war would go a long way to building up those parallel themes.

Thanks, all.

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Palomides's picture
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factotums
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Re: Obox-ob and the Eladrin

It goes back to when Obox-ob was in middle school and the eladrin upper-classmen gave him wedgies. Obox-ob had a major growth spurt in high school.

Seriously though, I have no idea.

cromlich's picture
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Re: Obox-ob and the Eladrin

I don't remember anything like that, the eladrins did not cause his fall, though it's possible that their attack weakened the obyriths for good. Obox-ob, after its return, couldn't find the strength and support to challenge Demogorgon for the Prince of Demons title, and it partially put the blame on the eladrins who indirectly helped the tanar'ri revolt.

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Re: Obox-ob and the Eladrin

Sounds like a case of scapegoating.

Honestly though, if you have something in mind that fits the world you're envisioning, I'd treat the canon stuff as rumor and go with whatever it is you have in mind instead.

Nerrin's picture
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Re: Obox-ob and the Eladrin

Wicke wrote:
Sounds like a case of scapegoating.

Honestly though, if you have something in mind that fits the world you're envisioning, I'd treat the canon stuff as rumor and go with whatever it is you have in mind instead.

Well, it's not really for a specific game or anything, it's more for a little thing that wandered into my head while I was reading around on other Planescape stuff.

I've always gotten a little bit of an Enuma Elish vibe out of the war between Chaos and Law - the Queen of Chaos and Miska the Wolf-Spider make a decent pair of (Babylonian) Tiamat/Kingu stand-ins, while the seven Wind Dukes correspond somewhat neatly to the seven winds that Marduk wielded. So I'm trying to play up the parallels there.

At the same time, I'm trying to build up some parallels between the Ahriman/Jazirian story. There, Law opposes Chaos but ends up divided, so it's more like LG versus LE versus CN. (A comfortable little set of three sides, that.) In this Enuma Elish/Chaos and Law War story, I'm going with Chaos dividing so it's CG versus CE versus LN, for another (symmetrical) set of three sides.

So the eladrin having an outright hand in Obox-ob's downfall? Would fit in quite nicely to Chaos dividing itself much as the twin serpents of Law did. Specifically, it'd play to the Enuma Elish imagery again, putting Obox-ob in the place of Abzu, Kingu's murdered father and predecessor as Tiamat's consort. (And the eladrin or their predecessor(s) in the place of Ea, Marduk's father who had slain Abzu.)

And then, to round out both the remaining alignments and the Rule of Threes, do something with the Heart of Darkness story and the intimations that the guardinals had their own version of the baernaloths in the background, and work True Neutral in there as well. I haven't really decided on what, if any, mythology to play up there.

Nothing terribly original, but I wanted something around that I could share with players if I ran a Planescape game (gotta keep trying...) to illustrate the kind of murky, wobbly nature of planar history with a set of stories that kind of bleed together yet also contradict in some places. Suggest that these all actually happened separately, and somehow the more syncretic popular timeline eventually came and absorbed/overwrote them all.

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"The story repeats - everything comes around again. The snake swallows its own tale."

ripvanwormer's picture
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Re: Obox-ob and the Eladrin

Maybe the eladrins conspired with the Queen of Chaos and Miska to overthrow Obox-ob, mistaking her for a better alternative. Perhaps they attacked one of Obox-ob's Abyssal holdings, distracting him or reducing his fortresses while Miska went in for the kill.

Perhaps the eladrins held a wedding for Obox-ob (maybe he thought he was getting married to the Queen of Chaos, or even the Queen of Stars) and Miska ambushed him, slaughtering him under the banner of truce.

cromlich's picture
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Re: Obox-ob and the Eladrin

Do obyriths have marriages?

Jem
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Re: Obox-ob and the Eladrin

Could this be referring to the story behind Androlynne? The eladrins hit the obyriths when they were down after Pesh, I suspect hoping for final victory over the Abyss; this broke the rule of the obyriths and led to the ascendance of the tanar'ri. Even if the eladrins weren't the only factor in Obox-ob's long exile from power, making another race of demons the rulers of the Abyss could hardly have helped matters.

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Re: Obox-ob and the Eladrin

Obox-ob was busy recovering from mostly dead during and after Pesh, though.

The sequence of events goes: Obox-ob starts out as original Prince of Demons; the Queen of Chaos mostly kills him but for a single aspect which flees and hides out in some deep Abyssal layer; the Queen elevates Miska the Wolf-Spider as the Prince of Demons; then the bulk of the war and Pesh, and the eladrin invade the Abyss after all that.

Obox-ob was already out of the game, so the eladrin may have broken the general rule of the obyriths but almost everyone already considered him dead and not worth messing with further. I'd imagine that if he had a specific grudge, it'd be against the Queen or maybe the Wind Dukes for denying him the satisfaction of punishing the upstart Miska.

I kind of like the ideas for a sort of horrid marriage between Obox-ob and the Queen that the eladrins (or their predecessors) betrayed. For example: the Queen of Chaos offers the Prince of Demons an equal place at her side leading Chaos, and arranges for the entire ceremony to be handled and staffed by the earliest eladrin, the most trustworthy and peaceful of Chaos's forces. Feeling secure, Obox-ob is completely blindsided when the eladrin - who are still serving their Queen, after all, obey her command to butcher the Prince and his entire retinue in advance of what she claims is his own coming treachery.

Then, she props a much dumber, but still powerful and useful, tanar'ri pawn up as the new Prince and sends him off to lead Chaos's armies. But the eladrin learn how they were used and turn against her, causing the CG/CE divide in the ranks. Which she may have wanted anyway because turning the eladrin away from her fully would have been more secure in the long run than having them start to question their role in the war and work against her covertly.

I may make the eladrin in this scenario instead into some vague "ancient titans" or imply a connection to the primordial Mesopotamian gods of Heaven and Earth (or even their children, the Anunnaki).

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Eldan's picture
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Re: Obox-ob and the Eladrin

In that scenario, could we imagine Morwel as a counterpart to the Queen of Chaos, that was not overthrown?

Or perhaps Morwel also replaced someone. You know, we have two overthrown exemplar races already, let's add another. Tie it into the secrets of the ruins of Pelion, which the Eladrin refuse to talk about.

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