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No Pillar of Skulls in FCII?

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Sat, 2007-03-31 12:10
#1
420
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No Pillar of Skulls in FCII?

So I finally got my hands on the Fiendish Codex II and I noticed something odd while reading about Avernus and Tiamat's realm. There is no mention of the Pillar of Skulls anywhere. Is this mentioned in the FCII and I just missed it?

Also, there's no encyclopedia entry for the Pillar of Skulls on planewalker.com. Does it go by another name?

As far as I know, the Pillar of Skulls appears in Planescape: Torment, the Manual of the Planes (pg. 117) and even as a planar touchstone in the Planar Handbook (pg. 180). So it seems to be canon and from before 3rd Edition (hence its appearance in Torment).

Any ideas on this?

Also, is there any mention of Ancient Baatorians in FCII because I haven't found a single mention of them so far?

-420

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Sat, 2007-03-31 12:27
#2
ripvanwormer
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No Pillar of Skulls in FCII?

It's only known as the Pillar of Skulls. It's located near Tiamat's lair. The encyclopedia (that is, I) mentioned it in the Avernus entry. I haven't given it a separate entry yet because I hadn't thought to, and nobody's requested it.

If FC2 doesn't mention it, it's probably because they didn't have that much to say about it.

FC2 doesn't mention the ancient Baatorians directly, but the description of the dogai (assassin devils) says they were created from shadowy creatures who preceded the coming of the baatezu.

Sat, 2007-03-31 12:50
(Reply to #2) #3
Ordbyrht
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No Pillar of Skulls in FCII?

'420' wrote:
So I finally got my hands on the Fiendish Codex II and I noticed something odd while reading about Avernus and Tiamat's realm. There is no mention of the Pillar of Skulls anywhere. Is this mentioned in the FCII and I just missed it?
There is no mention of the Pillar of Skulls in FCII.

Quote:
As far as I know, the Pillar of Skulls appears in Planescape: Torment, the Manual of the Planes (pg. 117) and even as a planar touchstone in the Planar Handbook (pg. 180). So it seems to be canon and from before 3rd Edition (hence its appearance in Torment).
It does appear in at least one Planescape source, Fires of Dis.

Quote:
Also, is there any mention of Ancient Baatorians in FCII because I haven't found a single mention of them so far?

There is no mention of the Ancient Baatorians in Tyrants of the Nine Hells. Though the book has stats on the nupperibo, it is described as a form of punishment for baatezu who have failed their master.

Sat, 2007-03-31 13:34
(Reply to #3) #4
Iavas
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No Pillar of Skulls in FCII?

In the true fashion of most 3e/3.5e sourcebooks, FCII seems to simplify a lot of the previously established (by 2e Planescape) canon by cutting out large chunks of flavour material (eg Ancient Baatorians) and tying any remaining references to simpler explanations. It also pushes the plot along (eg Malbolge) and adds new elements (most of the new devils), logic and continuity be damned.

That being said, both of the FC have a lot of useful material, but you have to sift through some grandiose changes in order to apply it to a true-to-canon Planescape game. If you don't care about Planescape-centric storylines and descriptions, as I assume most of WotC's current customers do not, then they are fantastic books. For us Planescape junkies, however, certain adjustments must be made.

Sat, 2007-03-31 14:14
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Clueless
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No Pillar of Skulls in FCII?

I need to sit down with some of the folks on the forum sometime and snap together a module to explain that change in leadership there with the Hag Countess. Eye-wink I don't believe FC2 really detailed it.

Sat, 2007-03-31 16:06
(Reply to #5) #6
420
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No Pillar of Skulls in FCII?

'Clueless' wrote:
I need to sit down with some of the folks on the forum sometime and snap together a module to explain that change in leadership there with the Hag Countess. Eye-wink I don't believe FC2 really detailed it.
I haven't got that far yet (trying to space out my reading between new books). That's very disappointing to hear. I loved the concept of the Hag Countess from Book of Vile Darkness and it pains me to hear that her rein was so short lived and anticlimactic. I was really looking forward to reading about the epic battle between her and the daughter of Asmodeus.

Does it even explain how the hag countess went from being a medium sized outsider in BoVD to an unimaginably large corpse?

-420

Sat, 2007-03-31 16:56
(Reply to #6) #7
Iavas
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No Pillar of Skulls in FCII?

Yeah, in about two sentences. To summarize - she suddenly started screaming and growing in size until she went pop and left a bunch of entrails strewn throughout the (for some reason) finite layer. Not to subvert the thread, but there's been a lengthy discussion about Malbolge on the aptly named "Malbolge" thread of the RPG forum (still on the first page, if I'm not mistaken). Duckluck and I have hit on something good, or at least we both think so, but because of lack of enthusiasm on anybody else's parts, we're going to split off the disucssion for an epilogue to the Countess' sudden demise into a seperate topic. I'm about to go do that now if Duckluck doesn't beat me to it. Stay tuned...

Sat, 2007-03-31 17:31
(Reply to #7) #8
ripvanwormer
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No Pillar of Skulls in FCII?

I'm still in love with the idea of the Hag Countess doing it to herself in her attempt to achieve divinity (as described in Guide to Hell). She was trying to power herself up and performed upon herself a modified version of the techniques night hags use to create altraloths. She had probably done this to herself once before, which would explain her wings and more powerful than usual nature. She tried again, though, hoping to make herself more powerful than Asmodeus with disastrous results.

I wouldn't call this "anticlimatic" - expanding in size to agonizingly become one with her layer, transforming the landscape into her image, is as big of a climax as anybody has a right to expect.

I wouldn't characterize her as a corpse, however - while she's currently quiescent, she's not necessarily dead. Her spawn wander throughout Malbolge, trying to put her back together. One day they might succeed, if Glasya is distracted or imprisoned, and she'll be back, far more powerful than ever before.

Sat, 2007-03-31 19:14
(Reply to #8) #9
Clueless
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No Pillar of Skulls in FCII?

Re: the Malbolge thread - I've been following it too actually, and it seems like a pretty decent idea - but it's set to be after the module I was looking at seeing if I could patch together. Essentially I would like to fill in that conceptual gap that FC2 left behind, so that further modules such as yours have some basis to them.

I'm fond of the idea of the Hag Countess trying to become as a goddess - having been allowed to take her position as a temporary holding spot by Asmo as he knew she would be moving on to something else in a relatively short amount of time as his plans go. In the process of becoming that, something goes wrong, Glasya 'daddy's little girl' sees an opportunity, or something else and the transition to godhood fails spectacularly.

I also don't think I'd call her dead if it were my game. In mine... as she lay there slipping her way to wherever is it failed gods go... she got a tap on the shoulder from beings that have been quietly sleeping there all along. And now, is undergoing a transition, reinforced by her new not-so-slumbering allies, the baatorians. It explains why she's not just wiped from the face of the layer like she could be if Glasya were in total control. And gives the chance of the Hag Countess rising as something else entirely in the end... failed goddess but now with other sources of power. Ironically I suppose that would put the baatorians in much the same position as the night hag covens that made the altraloths.

But then.. I'm fond of those fellows. Eye-wink

Tue, 2007-08-21 02:56
(Reply to #9) #10
Calmar
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No Pillar of Skulls in FCII?

The Pillar of Skulls also appears in Well of Worlds, but there it basically functions like a creature whose heads are talking all the time and give you (wrong) information in exchange for news.

Astonishing how the possession of one Planescape product enables me to participate in numerous diskussions... Laughing out loud

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