No PC Gnomes in 4th Edition?

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Anime Fan's picture
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No PC Gnomes in 4th Edition?

This bites! I was looking forward to seeing some kind of gadget-based class for the Gnome allowing them to make cool devices, but apparently Gnomes are now relegated to being mere "monsters"...

Azure's picture
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No PC Gnomes in 4th Edition?

Wow, that sucks! gear_:x

Zimrazim's picture
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No PC Gnomes in 4th Edition?

Just wondering, how common were gnome PCs? The big thing, to me, is that in D&D they never did seem to have enough "flavor," especially compared to, say, elves or dwarves.

The big exception being Krynnish tinker gnomes. (I never really liked those, but they were distinctive.)

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No PC Gnomes in 4th Edition?

This is actually pretty old news. Gnomes have been replaced by Tieflings. WotC even made a cartoon to rub it in. Puzzled

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/toon/20071219a

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No PC Gnomes in 4th Edition?

Tiefling Gnomes!

(Jinxes. They're awesome.)

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BoGr Guide to Missile Combat:
1) Equip a bow or crossbow.
2) Roll a natural 1 on d20.
3) ?????
4) Profit!

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No PC Gnomes in 4th Edition?

I have to say, even though I don't understand the logic behind this change (or many others in 4e), I adore that animted short. The gnome, especially, is so hilariously voiced and animated...

"Last night, I called my mom, and was like 'Guess what?' and she was like 'What?' and I said 'I'm a monster! Raaawr!'"
"They set me up with this gorgeous lair. Do you have a lair? I have a lair!"
"Say hello, Francis. Who's my minion? Who's my minion? You are! Nomnomnom!"

Since I had given up on 4e long ago, I just want them to make a cartoon series with that gnome.

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No PC Gnomes in 4th Edition?

I've had someone play a gnome in all my games, and there are lots of cool things you can do with them as a DM (especially in Planescape where they have a whole plane). They were also one of the more powerful races in the PHB, so statwise there were lots of good reasons to play them, but I guess they just didn't have the same cachet as other races. Plus WotC mostly alternated between making them painfully boring (and all the same), to ignoring them entirely. That can't have helped their status.

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Alas Poor Gnome

Gnomes have always had something of an identity crisis. In 1st edition, they were the race you could multiclass as an illusionist, and were something of a trickster type. In some of the articles of that era, they introduced the idea of gnomes being companions to nature (see the Gnomes & Halflings book, and the Dragon article on the gnomish gods). The illusionist aspect remained.

Deep Gnomes were introduced, which used the link to Elemental Earth. In classical alchemy, there were four creatures, one for each element. For air, it was the sylph; fire was the salamander, water was the undine, and the earth was gnomes.

Krynn introduced the idea of tinker gnomes, which had its own appeal. Of course, the tinkers were a totally different feel from the original gnomes.

When 3rd edition came along, they tried keeping the illusionist aspect - the 3.0 PH had illusionist as the gnome's preferred class. Of course, the gnome also gained a number of other racial bonuses which were something of a hodgepodge. Since specialist wizards weren't as appealing in 3rd edition, 3.5 changed their preferred class to bards.

The book Races of Stone was a sad disappointment to me. The poor gnome had wandered from illusionist specialist to nature lover to earth spirit to tinker to bardic jack-of-all-trades, and now to monster status with 4E.

Alas, poor gnome. I knew him, Kurtulmak.

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No PC Gnomes in 4th Edition?

WHAT?! No more Jansons?! I WANT BLOOD!!!!

Zimrazim's picture
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No PC Gnomes in 4th Edition?

Since 4e doesn't have "good" monsters, does that mean parties will be killing dungeons filled with EVIL, WICKED GNOMES?

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2) Roll a natural 1 on d20.
3) ?????
4) Profit!

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No PC Gnomes in 4th Edition?

Ghaarrr! Probably! :x One problem I kinda always had with hack&slash type D&D, is look at what 'adventuring' consists of. A group of heavily armed killers breaks into somebody's place, kills them, and takes all their money. Oh, its OK, because they were "evil monsters". Problem with that for me is the basic mindset. "It's OK to kill them, they're just orcs" sounds too much like "they're just Iraqis" or "they're just poor inner-city black gangsters", ya feelin' me? Now, I'm American, and let's face it, shooting somebody in the face is considered good clean fun over here (or so it seems sometimes). Just look at the gore that comes out of Hollywood with a PG rating, but don't you dare show half a nipple! (Huff huff huff) Sorry for the rant, but that's the reason I like Planescape, it's more nuanced than just chopping apart monsters. Killing a Tanar'ri is still murder in Sigil, though like in many major American cities, there's a good chance you'll get away with it.

Back to the rant: So now, in 4th ed, gnomes are just something else to leave lying in a pool of blood and severd limbs, great. Hey, I got an idea, why don't they put "Man" back in the MM like in 1st ed, then we can change the name from "Dungeons and Dragons" to "Manson Family Fantasy". Not that I don't like violence (who doesn't, well, besides whoever's on the recieving end), but I'd like a little thought to come along for the ride as well.

Although, I laughed my ass off watching that short. Laughing out loud

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No PC Gnomes in 4th Edition?

'Azure' wrote:
that's the reason I like Planescape, it's more nuanced than just chopping apart monsters.

One of the reasons I like githyanki is that they have a very distinct culture. (I suspect this is one of the reasons drow are very popular.)

Too much of D&D, from a roleplaying perspective, is a mix of quasi-medieval technology and modern 21st century American mindset and culture. Sometimes it's a bad imitation of a non-American Earth culture. I find it more fun to RP within the context of an alien culture.

More cultural development would be very welcome in D&D, in general.

__________________

BoGr Guide to Missile Combat:
1) Equip a bow or crossbow.
2) Roll a natural 1 on d20.
3) ?????
4) Profit!

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No PC Gnomes in 4th Edition?

'Zimrazim' wrote:
One of the reasons I like githyanki is that they have a very distinct culture. (I suspect this is one of the reasons drow are very popular.)

More cultural development would be very welcome in D&D, in general.

I agree in a big way, Zim! In fact PSCS is awesome for showcasing non-human cultures. I mean, just look at the Khaasta. Darwinian/capitalist lizard-people!? Awesome!

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No PC Gnomes in 4th Edition?

'Azure' wrote:
Darwinian/capitalist lizard-people!?

This resonates disturbingly with reality. Laughing out loud

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No PC Gnomes in 4th Edition?

Well, lets hope without the "lizard-people" Laughing out loud I've heard the rumor that George W Bush is is really a "V" Laughing out loud

ripvanwormer's picture
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No PC Gnomes in 4th Edition?

I'm sure there will be player character gnomes eventually. Just not in the first Player's Handbook.

It sounds like 4e gnomes will be closely associated with the Feywild.

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No PC Gnomes in 4th Edition?

They're going to be in the Monster Manual with a couple of others (probably Goblins, orcs, Drow, ect.). But they won't have racial feats like PHB races until later.

Zeniel's picture
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No PC Gnomes in 4th Edition?

Ohh the gnomanity!!

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No PC Gnomes in 4th Edition?

I could always be worse. They could replace gnomes compleatly with those half-dwarfs half-celsestial dire badgers from Mount Celestia (see Planar Handook for details, I still have nightmares from those things). Sad

Anyways I allways thougt of gnomes as link that conects 3 races: Halflings, Dwarves and Elves. You see they love comfort of their homes like Hobbits (sorry Halflings), they are fine miners and craftsmen like Dwarves, and they love nature's beauty like Elves (they do this on more practical level: they tend wounded animals, help them survive during winter and stuff like that, and have you ever see elf doing that).

Then times changed: halflings became wandering gypsies, dwarves tossable humoristic relifes in mayor motion pictures, and elves popularity is overshadoved by Drow. And our benign little gnome worker is suddenly neutral tree-hugging, animal-kissing miget hippie monster (and on top of that he look's like chupakabra in that clip, mind you).

Well at least look on the bright side: angry mobs dont burn Tieflings any more just becaouse they are spawn of Satan (and his little witches), they are too buisy burning neutral tree-hugging, animal-kissing miget hippie monster's.

I actualy like gnomes (and I have played one or two in my time), but consider this: if you ask average kid what would he play more: "cool" angsty Tefling or Gnome?
This is extreamly unfair but WoTC designers probably think that Gnomes are not "cool" enough for new edition.

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No PC Gnomes in 4th Edition?

'Squaff' wrote:
elves popularity is overshadoved by Drow.

I wonder how much a race of mostly peaceful and gentle, nature-loving, dancing-under-moonlight, capture-and-release-deer-hunting, flower-collecting elves really resonates with most modern 21st-century American readers. Turn on the TV and watch "The Apprentice" for 5 minutes. Puzzled

Now, if they were to make more elves like, say, Tamrielic (Elder Scrolls series) wood elves, they might have something there. Nature-loving tree-huggers who feel religiously obligated to eat the bodies of opponents that they personally slay in combat? Not exactly generic Elves.

__________________

BoGr Guide to Missile Combat:
1) Equip a bow or crossbow.
2) Roll a natural 1 on d20.
3) ?????
4) Profit!

Dire Lemon's picture
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No PC Gnomes in 4th Edition?

Hey now, they don't do that anymore. As of Elder Scrolls Four they are now in line with every other generic Everquest/DnD wood elf.

And the King of Worms is a High Elf.

At least they didn't magically bring back the Dwemer as short stocky bearded folk with axes.

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No PC Gnomes in 4th Edition?

The kind of worms was supposed to be a sload. Some kind of giant aquatic slug. I know this because of my perusal of books in morrowind.
So he was supposed to be the Lich form of the sload people. I would have thought that this was a really cool idea. But no,it seems that Bethesda completly removed any alien element from their game. Ugh the dissapointment continues.
I was very surprised to find out he'd been changed in Oblivion.

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