New Player Character Race: Otaki

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Charles Phipps's picture
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New Player Character Race: Otaki

New Player Character Race: Otaki

I made this race to fulfill some of the lack that has occurred thanks to the loss of Gnomes and Halflings.

Otaki (Half-Goblins)

The Otaki exist in every part of Ortho, even their name means 'The Children of Ortho' in Goblinish. The presence of lonely Hobgoblin soldiers in every province has resulted in many children that largely exist outside of conventional Ortho society. The perfect order of the planet has no use for bastards and few members of the race were born from a wedded union between a Hobgoblin and human. Over time, their numbers swelled to the point that they started marrying members of their own kind and producing Otaki that were not the product of a hybrid union. In many respects, the Otaki have managed to become their own race.

While the Harmonium would dearly love to "civilize" the Otaki, all efforts to do so have resulted in failure. Those who join the Harmonium tend to find themselves ostracized and treated with suspicion from their race. Also, the members of the Harmonium rank and file tend to treat Otaki recruits with a mixture of contempt and derision (especially, Hobgoblin members). While racism is a deeply Un-Harmonious quality, familiarity seems to have bred contempt. This quality tends to evaporate at higher ranks of the Harmonium.

The only Otaki that do have any real active membership in the Harmonium are those from Vak'Moor. The Vak'moor Otaki often attempt to insert their children into the ranks of the military. They are often shocked by the behavior of their kinsmen in other provinces and the reaction they recieve from troopers that are used to their more chaotic brethren.

Personality: Otaki tend to be hot-blooded and passionate creatures that disregard common sense over emotion. They are easily swept up in causes and quick to take offense. Otaki vengeance is well known to sometimes take generations to perform but vendettas are never forgotten. Otaki tend to fall in love easilly and tend to disregard Ortho social norms for the joys of the moment.

Otaki are bored easily and often drawn into plots or intrigues just for the experience. They have a cultural severance for the art of bluffing and few Otaki don't have some skill at playing on the emotions of others. While few Otaki fear hard-work, they have a tendency to seek great wealth through thinking rather than labor. Thus, they make natural merchants. Beauty is believed to be the highest thing that an Otaki can fight for.

Otaki artists and performers are amongst the most greatest on Ortho, if not necessarilly the most socially accepted.

Physical Description: The Otaki are mostly human-like in appearance, except for their red and orange skin-tone. Oddly, Otaki have elf-like pointed ears that are an aspect found in neither humans or Hobgoblins. Despite their Goblin parentage, they show little sign of their more brutish parentage. Instead, many human beings have come to view their appearance as exotic and beautiful. Oddly, Hobgoblins also tend to view Otaki as attractive despite the severe cultural restrictions against intimacies with them. Otaki hair tends towards either black, blond, or flaming red.

It is noteworthy that Otaki don't resemble Half-Goblins from other worlds. Their pointed ears and angular seem more like elves than anything else. It is speculated, mostly by individuals that consider it a slander against the Otaki, that The Lords of Chaos may have given their race qualities that are similar to the lost species of Ortho or that most have a deviant strain of elf blood. The Otaki tend to dismiss this as nonsense.

Alignment: Due to the constant harassment that Otaki receive from law enforcement, they take a dim view of the Harmonium and OCA. While few are active rebels, they are known to enjoy tweaking the nose of law enforcement whenever possible. This includes giving aid to fugitives, misleading authorities, and otherwise complicating the lives of law enforcement.

Most Otaki favor a Neutral or Chaotic alignment but there are many Lawful members of the race. It's just that the species has created a cultural pride in being slightly deviant from the norm and other factors have made such behavior discouraged. Still, the Otaki members of the Harmonium tend to be amongst the hard and rigid in interpretation of the law due to their need to prove themselves 'above' their heritage.

Otaki Lands: Otaki have a, somewhat, undeserved reputation for shiftiness and criminal behavior. Still, due to the fact that many of them grow up in disgrace or disadvantaged circumstances, a large portion have ended up in questionable professions. Otaki are an incredibly common sight in the Licensed Quarters. The beauty of Otaki has made them especially well received as courtesans while others become swept up in the quasi-legitimate vice cartels that thrive on the indulgence in said regions. This has only fed their reputations as dangerous individuals that have a penchant for mischief.

More than a few Otaki have found themselves forming traveling troupes of entertainers. Given that they rarely are able to forward enough money to become full blown Venture cartels, Otaki tend to fall back on performances to feed themselves. These carnivals are often fronts for less than entirely decent activities. Some become traveling Licensed Quarters, legal or not, in order to maximize the profits that go into Otaki pockets. Quite a few of the larger circuses are actually generational unions that are, effectively, Otaki tribes.

North Thaera and the Thaeran Isles are the only places that Otaki are found in vast communities. Due to Hobgoblin prejudice against merchants, these are the only lands that they are known to hold respectable jobs as well.

Religion: The Otaki follow the Lords of Order in public but genuine reverance is almost non-existent amongst the race. Even gods they normally might follow like The Lord of Music or Community have been soured for them by the rigid interpretations of the church. The vast majority of Otaki are, therefore, godless for all intents and purposes.

Those Otaki that hear of The Lords of Chaos are, more often than not, intrigued. Patches of Lords of Chaos worship continue amongst the race with many conducting rituals in secret. The most evil Otaki find Alzrius' focus on "wealth and pleasure for worship" to be a god that they can understand.

Language: Otaki speak Ortho Common as their Native tongue along with 'Otakese' that is a pidgin version of Hobgoblinish mixed with remains of Thieves Cant along with words borrowed from every corner of Ortho. Those raised in Hobgoblin communities tend to speak Hobgoblinish as opposed to Otakese.

Names: Otaki tend to prefer Human names rather than Hobgoblin names, since the later race tends to view it as an insult to their racial pride. Otaki tend to give exotic sounding names their children in order to distinguish them from the ordinary and simple names of most Ortho commoners.

Adventurers: Otaki have a natural penchant for magic that is lacking from their Hobgoblin parents. Due to the unwillingness of most formal schools to employ Otaki students, most are self-taught or gain their knowledge from family traditions. Otaki magic tends to focus on Enchantment and Illusions as opposed to more physical effects. These aid in their reputation as beautiful and manipulative creatures.

Combined with their penchant for thievery and disregard for the Law, the Otaki make the best Bards in Ortho. Those Otaki who lack a desire to be an entertainer are often inclined to become rogues.

Otaki

* Medium: As Medium creatures, Otaki have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
* Otaki base land speed is 30 feet.
* Low-Light Vision: A Otaki can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
* Otaki have a -2 penalty to Wisdom.
* Otaki have a +2 bonus to Charisma.
* Otaki spell casters gain a +1 bonus to all Concentration checks with spells from the Enchantment/Charm or Illusion schools of magic.
* +2 racial bonus on Diplomacy, Bluff, and Gather Information checks.
* Goblin: For all effects related to race, a Otaki is considered a Goblin.
* Automatic Languages: Common and Otaki. Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic).
* Favored Class: Bard

Armoury99's picture
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New Player Character Race: Otaki

Nice addition to Ortho.

Duckluck's picture
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New Player Character Race: Otaki

Here's a question though. Why would the Harmonium pester them any more than non-half breeds? We're talking about a group that welcomed half-orcs, Beholders, and Werewolves into the fold. Why would they be so oppressive of what are basically just orange-skinned people with funny ears? It seems like even if the Hobgoblins despise them and human communities in the provinces ostracize them, the one place Otaki would find acceptance would be the OCA. So we could have two groups, the wild, chaotic Otaki who trust no one but each other, and the honorable, law-abiding Otaki who have made a place for themselves by serving their nation. I imagine they wouldn't like each other much.

Oh, and I have to ask, why pointed ears? It's not that I object per se, it's just that every other fantasy race has them (especially the chaotic ones), and to put them on a hybrid race when neither parent has them is sort of an odd choice.

That said, I like the Otaki and think they make a great addition to the setting.

Charles Phipps's picture
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New Player Character Race: Otaki

Quote:
Here's a question though. Why would the Harmonium pester them any more than non-half breeds?

To help emphasize that they're outcasts on Ortho. At heart, the Harmonium doesn't like people who don't conform and the racial concept is that it's a people who refuse to be pushed into the molds that the Harmonium makes.

I could detail that more but...

Quote:
So we could have two groups, the wild, chaotic Otaki who trust no one but each other, and the honorable, law-abiding Otaki who have made a place for themselves by serving their nation. I imagine they wouldn't like each other much.

I think that dilutes the concept to be honest. They're supposed to be the Chaotic race. Sort of like Tieflings might have a bunch of people who are LG in the Harmonium but mentioning them sort of ruins their write-up as rogues and confuses the issue.

My idea for them is that some might join with the Harmonium but, basically it's in a tiny minority.

Quote:
Oh, and I have to ask, why pointed ears? It's not that I object per se, it's just that every other fantasy race has them (especially the chaotic ones), and to put them on a hybrid race when neither parent has them is sort of an odd choice.

I don't want to make it an actual rumor, but it's a hint that they're perhaps related to the absence of elves in the world. I was thinking of mentioning that Half-Goblins on other worlds bear no resemblance to Otaki.

I am interested in you and Armoury's view on this.

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New Player Character Race: Otaki

'Charles Phipps' wrote:

To help emphasize that they're outcasts on Ortho. At heart, the Harmonium doesn't like people who don't conform and the racial concept is that it's a people who refuse to be pushed into the molds that the Harmonium makes.

I understand that's the reason from a design perspective, but from an in-world perspective, it's a huge breach of what the Harmonium is supposed to be about. They would never set out to create a group of outcast "goblin Gypsies" and if they did they would see it as their duty to do everything they could to welcome them back into the fold. You're going to have to explain why they haven't been.

Quote:
I think that dilutes the concept to be honest. They're supposed to be the Chaotic race. Sort of like Tieflings might have a bunch of people who are LG in the Harmonium but mentioning them sort of ruins their write-up as rogues and confuses the issue.

And yet, any write-up on Tieflings will mention that they aren't all chaotic trouble makers and many are just normal people who do nothing to earn their stigma. Planewalker's own PSCS, for instance, mentions that "some Tieflings are as virtuous as paladins." Besides, Ortho already has Tieflings playing a major role. If we model the Otaki on them, won't we just be making the same race twice?

Quote:
I don't want to make it an actual rumor, but it's a hint that they're perhaps related to the absence of elves in the world. I was thinking of mentioning that Half-Goblins on other worlds bear no resemblance to Otaki.

I am interested in you and Armoury's view on this.

So they're not all half-human is what you're saying. That's an interesting idea. I'd make the elven features more subtle. Ortho hasn't had elves for four hundred years, so most Otaki probably wouldn't have that much elven blood. Maybe make them slightly more attractive and long-lived than normal half-goblins and mention that some of them have somewhat pointed ears.

Charles Phipps's picture
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New Player Character Race: Otaki

Well, actually, I'd like to do something more magical with them and I'll see what you think.

Quote:
It is noteworthy that Otaki don't resemble Half-Goblins from other worlds. Their pointed ears and angular seem more like elves than anything else. It is speculated, mostly by individuals that consider it a slander against the Otaki, that The Lords of Chaos may have given their race qualities that are similar to the lost species of Ortho. The Otaki tend to dismiss this as nonsense.

Basically, having committed genocide on all the Pointy eared races on Ortho, I felt we needed one.

Besides, Ortho already has Tieflings playing a major role. If we model the Otaki on them, won't we just be making the same race twice?

I consider their resemblance to Tieflings to be almost negligible. This is actually just an example of my point. Here's some more quotes for modification.

Quote:
While the Harmonium would dearly love to "civilize" the Otaki, all efforts to do so have resulted in failure. Those who join the Harmonium tend to find themselves ostracized and treated with suspicion from their former race. Also, the members of the Harmonium rank and file tend to treat Otaki recruits with a mixture of contempt and derision (especially, Hobgoblin members). While racism is a deeply Un-Harmonious quality, familiarity seems to have bred contempt. This quality tends to evaporate at higher ranks of the Harmonium.

The only Otaki that do have any real active membership in the Harmonium are those from Vak'Moor whom often attempt to insert their children into the ranks of the military. They are often shocked by the behavior of their kinsmen in other provinces and the reaction they receive from troopers that are used to their more chaotic brethren.

There, hopefully that makes things better. I do think it's important to give the design archetype for the Outsider as well as indicate that not even the Harmonium lives up to its ideals at all times.

Quote:
Not all Otaki are Neutral or Chaotic. There are, indeed, many Lawful members of the race. It's just that the species has created a cultural pride in being slightly deviant from the norm and other factors have made such behavior discouraged. Still, the Otaki members of the Harmonium tend to be amongst the hard and rigid in interpretation of the law due to their need to prove themselves 'above' their heritage.

I appreciate your feedback!

Duckluck's picture
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New Player Character Race: Otaki

Much better. I'd personally suggest keeping it vague why the Otaki have pointy ears (or giving multiple explanations) to emphasize that there are a lot of rumors and prejudices surrounding them. Also, I know this makes me a total grammar Nazi, but I can't stand it when people say "whom" when they mean "who." For the sake of my sanity, quit it.

Otherwise, I think it's golden. Good job.

Charles Phipps's picture
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New Player Character Race: Otaki

fixed

ripvanwormer's picture
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New Player Character Race: Otaki

'Charles Phipps' wrote:
The presence of lonely Hobgoblin soldiers in every province has resulted in many children that largely exist outside of conventional Ortho society.

Every province? I have trouble accepting that every one of Ortho's disparate nations would eagerly accept a race of mercenaries from Acheron into their traditional societies. I can imagine some hobgoblins immigrating to Ortho, particularly if they were helpful during the war with the Abyss, but I don't see a justification for them becoming widespread. The hobgoblins and otaki would make interesting subcultures in a single province, which would help distinguish that province from the rest of the world, but making them a planet-wide phenomenon would water down the indigenous cultures and overpower what makes Ortho unique. A little hobgoblin goes a long way.

Later in your article you say that they're only common in North Thaera, which suits me fine. I'd just weaken the language in the opening paragraph ("the presence of lonely hobgoblin soldiers in North Thaera...". I'd weaken the language in a few other places, too. For example, "Otaki artists and performers are amongst the most greatest on Ortho..." is a bit hyperbolic. I'd rather it said something like, "Otaki artists and performers are the equals of the drummers of Baelae or the star-painters of Han in their creativity and flare, if not in their social status or in the precision of their work."

I agree with Duckluck that if you're not sure how to use the word "whom," it's best to avoid it altogether. The sentence "The only Otaki that do have any real active membership in the Harmonium are those from Vak'Moor whom often attempt..." should read "who often attempt."

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New Player Character Race: Otaki

I point out that the Hobgoblins have been living on Ortho for the better part of six hundred years and the Armies on Ortho are all integrated. I.e. You're going to see Hobgoblins from North Thaera stationed everywhere on Ortho, whether the Provinces like it or not.

I think, also, they're going to be accepted.

But I welcome dissenting input.

Frankly, we've exterminated Gnomes/Elves/Halflings. I think its important to add some more options.

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New Player Character Race: Otaki

'Charles Phipps' wrote:
I point out that the Hobgoblins have been living on Ortho for the better part of six hundred years .

Since the Harmonium itself is only about five hundred years old, this seems unlikely. If they were recruited during the War of Iron (when the Harmonium first began to venture into the planes), they've been there for only 200 years. Still, I take your point that that's a fair amount of time.

My concern is that I can't imagine that the influx of Acheronian hobgoblins was that great, and a few bastards accumulating around military garrisons throughout the world over the past few centuries doesn't make for a cohesive subculture of the sort you describe. Rather, I'd expect each tiny Otaki community to be radically different in the way they deal with their dual heritage and the society around them.

I understand that you want there to be more PC races available, and I like that they're not the gnomes and halflings common to other worlds, but I think it would be better to look toward long-established Orthoran races if you're trying to create a new major one. Beholders breeding a humanoid slave caste (later liberated) would be an interesting idea, for example, or something derived from Armoury's work on the ogres, lizardfolk, sahuagin, or spider clans. I can buy the Otaki as an interesting anomaly that makes North Thaera unique, but not as a major world-wide race. It seems like you're trying to make too much of the hobgoblin immigrants, when they should be a more minor element in the world. I dislike the idea of making an alien race of Hextor-worshipping hobgoblins so prevalent on Ortho that even their half-breeds are a major PC race.

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"Rip Van Wormer" wrote:
Since the Harmonium itself is only about five hundred years old, this seems unlikely. If they were recruited during the War of Iron (when the Harmonium first began to venture into the planes), they've been there for only 200 years. Still, I take your point that that's a fair amount of time.

As you'll note in the write-up of North Thaera, they were mercenaries hired by Alzrius to guard his captured territories. They've been here well before the existence of the Harmonium and defected to join up with the Knights of Harmony during the early years.

"Rip Van Wormer" wrote:
My concern is that I can't imagine that the influx of Acheronian hobgoblins was that great, and a few bastards accumulating around military garrisons throughout the world over the past few centuries doesn't make for a cohesive subculture of the sort you describe. Rather, I'd expect each tiny Otaki community to be radically different in the way they deal with their dual heritage and the society around them.

It's been stated that they were a fairly massive army and an entire civilization was set up in the century that they'd been guarding the territories of Alzrius until their leader Crutag (A proxy of Hextor) brought them over to the side of the Harmonium.

While it's not really that detailed, I think its implied the Hobgoblins in the Harmonium are responsible for a large number of the worst excesses of the Knights against Demihumans and the like. They were rewarded with territory and the like for their choices.

"Rip Van Wormer" wrote:
I understand that you want there to be more PC races available, and I like that they're not the gnomes and halflings common to other worlds, but I think it would be better to look toward long-established Orthoran races if you're trying to create a new major one. Beholders breeding a humanoid slave caste (later liberated) would be an interesting idea, for example, or something derived from Armoury's work on the ogres, lizardfolk, sahuagin, or spider clans. I can buy the Otaki as an interesting anomaly that makes North Thaera unique, but not as a major world-wide race. It seems like you're trying to make too much of the hobgoblin immigrants, when they should be a more minor element in the world. I dislike the idea of making an alien race of Hextor-worshipping hobgoblins so prevalent on Ortho that even their half-breeds are a major PC race.

That's a point though, the Hobgoblins are a major race on Ortho. Part of the problem is that North Thaera has been only recently detailed but the simple fact is that the Hobgoblins have been retconned as being a major part of the history of Ortho's Harmonium from the very beginning. Certainly, they're as numerous and influential as Beholderkind.

Also, since they form the entirety of a Province and a minority in several other provinces (all detailed by me, unfortunately) they actually outnumber all of the various races that you just mentioned. They're in North Thaera, South Thaera, The Thaeran Isles, and Voll,

I think part of this has to do with the fact that they are THE major LE Humanoid race in the Monstrous Manual.

I'd be happy to retcon, however, the Otaki are primarily from North Thaera and the surrounding Thaeran regions but have mostly been moving around the rest of Ortho on their own time.

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New Player Character Race: Otaki

They're not ret cons if we haven't written it yet. And yeah, I'd watch how important you make them. It's easy to make every cool new idea be a huge part of the setting, but that may just make the parts add up to more than the whole. It was easy to say that the OCA doesn't like evil races but is willing to put up with them when "evil races" is just Beholders, but when you have evil Orcs (who are OK because they're lawful and mostly don't worship fiends anymore), evil tieflings (it's OK because they worship different fiends than the ones that ravaged Ortho), evil Sahaugin (who worship fiends and are engaged in a war against the Mer, but it's OK because they worship different fiends and no one cares about the Mer), evil ogres (they aren't all evil!), evil spider monsters (they're more alien than evil!), evil fiends from Acheron (Rakshasa are Lawful! Lawful, I say!), and now evil Hobgoblins it starts getting ridiculous.

Also, these are the same Hobgoblins who used to work for the greatest evil power on the planet, were more of a threat than several races that got wiped out, refuse to worship the Lords of Order, and didn't even get around to joining the Harmonium until well after they'd become the major power on Ortho. Seems like if the Harmonium are willing to kill gnomes, a race that isn't even chaotic, for being like races that are (does anyone have a better explanation?), there is no way in hell they would let the evil foot soldiers of their greatest enemy off with a slap on the wrist. Something has got to give.

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You raise a decent point.

HOWEVER, your idea is that you should have Chaotic Evil Lycanthropes, Ogres, Tieflings, Red Dragons, and Orcs that are all safely Harmonized into the Harmonium despite the fact that it probably makes more sense that a lot of these Chaotic Evil races have been destroyed instead of the Chaotic Ones.

However; you're going to suggest that the Hobgoblins whom are Lawful Evil in canon, have a ruthlessly militant society that is perfectly in-line with Harmonium values, and are written up as joining the Harmonium from the very beginning with direct and complete support towards the goals of uniting all the world under the Knights of Harmony....

I'm all for adjusting some elements of my stuff, but I do think that the Hobgoblins fit in better with the Harmonium as its depicted than some of the other elements you've just mentioned (particularly the Sahaugin and Fiends)

are somehow the problem?

My take on having the Hobgoblins worship Hextor is to help establish the fact that the Harmonium is not about converting people by the sword to their set of gods. Frankly, that's a whole nother kettle of fish and doesn't seem to jive with their viewpoint that allows St. Cuthbert and so many other religions to function. I also thought it added distinct spice that the Hobgoblins were totally Pro-Harmonium in every concievable way but were still very Pro-Hobgoblin and didn't intend to ever disregard their religion.

Ultimately, the basic idea behind Crutag and the history of the Hobgoblins on Ortho is that the Knights of Harmony represented very much the embodiment of what he wanted to establish for his people. He's very much a Alexander the Great or Ghenghis Khan figure for the Hobgoblins, a demigod in all but clerical senses. So, Crutag threw the Hobgoblins at the service of the Knights of Harmony and they've since been total boosters for the OCA since the beginning.

The only thing they don't give up (their god and their racial superiority) is qualities that make them interesting, I think.

I'm glad people are reigning in my point and I'm happy to add other qualities but basically, I just wanted to establish a Half-Elf substitute for our people and that's the Otaki. I'm happy to add other substitutes as well but I think that they work well with what we've established.

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My point was not so much that Hobgoblins are evil and the Harmonium only grudgingly accepts them, but that you could say the exact same thing for nearly a dozen races on Ortho. This doesn't fit at all with a group that has committed at least four separate genocides. Say what you will about gnomes and halflings, but they never worshiped fiends, fought in bloody wars of conquest, or really did any of the horrible things the Lycanthropes, Sahuagin, ogres orcs or Beholders have. I worry that in our rush to make Ortho a diverse setting, we've forgotten why the world is the way it is in the first place.

The Harmonium, are not terribly nice people. They are not tolerant. You follow the Way of Harmony, or they show you the way of harm instead. Lately though, we've had them be willing to put up with a lot of crap, and I worry that undermines them. The Harmonium will not always be a friendly or villainous group, but they need to be one the PCs have a healthy fear of and respect for. It's harder to take the OCA seriously when they can't even keep the races in their racial minorities in line.

I guess in terms of how we can fix it, I'd lay down the following guidelines:

* No group can get away with openly acting against the OCA.

At the moment this mostly just affects the Sahuagin, who are currently fighting the Mer: OCA allies. This seems like something we might want to change, as it really does make the Harmonium look weak.

*No group can act against the Harmonium without suffering reprisals later.

We've had the Harmonium be awfully merciful. Races that should have reprisals built into their back stories include (if I recall correctly) the ogres, were, and maybe hobgoblins.

*No group on Ortho is fully autonomous.

Unless you're living in a shack in the jungle, you'll have OCA agents breathing down your neck. Beholders and orcs get around this by having the OCA agents be other beholders and orcs. Other races like the tieflings and weres seem to just do their own thing though, and that's not something the OCA usually allows.

So yeah, basically what I was saying is not so much that Hobgoblins were a problem, but that having a dozen evil races including hobgoblins was the problem. Can't we just make some of these races neutral like we did with kobolds? I mean the idea of a race that's all evil is pretty stupid anyway.

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It's a balancing act, I think.

What I think works about the Hobgoblins, Sahuagin, Ogres, and so on is the fact that they're right and willing to go bash heads in the name of God. The whole idea behind the Harmonium is the fact that they're a bunch of people that are willing to do whatever it takes to make the world a better place. The irony of the deal is that plenty of "evil" races are fine with that so long as they go can kill people.

The Harmonium is NOT tolerant. It's not willing to accept, tolerate, or condone divergent behavior and it will kill you if you don't do what you're told. The problem is that it's pretty much an expected and normal state for evil creatures so that they adapt better.

I, personally, wish we could bring back Halflings or at least one of the races that have been exterminated. I also, frankly, wish we could have *more* examples of genocide. Some examples of truly evil and reprehensible species that the world is better off without as well.

However; I don't like making Kobolds, Orcs, Ogres, and Hobgoblins Neutral. Because, on a fundamental level, that says the Harmonium is right. That, yes, if you murder people and convert them by the sword then they'll come around to your righteous way of thinking. Orcs aren't humans with tusks, they're monsters.

Monsters with the potential to be good or neutral but monsters.

Just my .02.

Quote:
At the moment this mostly just affects the Sahuagin, who are currently fighting the Mer: OCA allies. This seems like something we might want to change, as it really does make the Harmonium look weak.

I honestly, tend to agree. However, I wouldn't mind the Sahuagin having a plot to destroy the Mer. However, I'm also of the mind that we should point out that should the OCA ever fully confirm a genocide is going on then the Harmonium could destroy the Sahuagin.

Do you remember the Manta-Rays that were lead by Vampires? I think it'd be cool if we said that the Sahuagin are cautious because the Harmonium utterly exterminated them on Ortho when they tried (and failed) to be Harmonious.

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Time for my two cents...

Regarding the currently high "Evil-factor" of Ortho, now I think about it there is a definite danger of too big a swing in favour of evil races at present. Beholders were our original "evil race" but simply because the Hardheads try to convert everyone means there's been a proliferation of evil races, because as you go through the books looking for races to include on Ortho, there's more bad guy races than good. What's important is to make sure that the races we detail most extensively have interesting and distinctive flavours in how they fit into the OCA.

This dovetails with some thoughts I've been having on the races I've detailed so far (but not edited/updated yet), and some of the others too.

Beholders are basically evil but civilised and prepared to play by the rules.

Orcs are naturally lawful (except in 3e) and apart from the - ahem - spot of devil worship they indulged in, weren't really that evil. No more evil than, say, a viking raider from earth. What you get under the Harmonuim is just your basic warrior culture. Orcs are probably the big 'win' culture of the Harmonium; formerly evil. Now just productive members of sociaety (mostly).

Ogres were essentially a product of their upbringing and former monster status. Now they're in the Harmonium, I don't see them as being particularly evil at all anymore. Ogre Magi might be an exception, but not necessarily (anti-social not necessarilly being evil).

The Spiders are really just alien. They have an evil background, but 90% of all Monstrous Manual races do. I suppose their shtick is "we're alien and creepy but just leave us alone and we'll behave."

Sahuagin have the biggest need for an edit, for all the reasons detailed above and in the thread feedback on them. I think of them as "evil" in the sense that they're real b*stards and hate the Mer, but otherwise they follow the Lords of Order and all the OCA's rules. In terms of political factions, they've basically just taken the Hardliner and Militarist viewpoints to heart.

Hobgoblins: Thaera is something of an exception to the over-eviling Ortho rule because its meant to be a blight on Ortho and the record of the Harmonium.

Think I missed the 'contract with Alzrius' bit of Hobgoblin history, so it came as a shock just now. Sorry to throw it at you now but I think that its probably stretching credibility to have them former servants of Alzrius unless it was very briefly and they turned on him in a big enough way to become 'heroes' in the same way that the orcs managed to (and there's a danger of duplication there too). Its canon that at least some of the fey races were exterminated simply because they were mere allies of the enemy. I don't think that Alzrius' slave-guards would be allowed anything like a grip on power even so far away as Thaera. It just doesn't sit right with me (my other thought is that why would an Abyssal Lord hire mercenaries of a lawful race from lawful Acheron? Big philosophocal clash there and plenty of other chaotic evil fish in the sea...)

The Acheron connection and 'true history' are nice though. Hobgoblin religion and cultural pride is a nice flavour to them, and they're actually a good example of an evil race that's in the process of being reformed but still has a way to go. That's a nice niche for them. I don't want to see them crawling all over Ortho - that niche is probably for orcs. The three Thaeran provinces is a lot of room to play in however. Its perfectly aceptable to have a PC race (both hobgoblin and Otaki )that comes from only a portion of the world - after all, that's what we were basically doing with Tieflings and Beholders.

Otaki - yes, they have something of a tiefling vibe about them, but Charles is giving them some diferent character and background. They are probably always going to be tarred with the "like tieflingsm but from hobgoblins" brush, but they're still a valid PC race - probably more so than actual tieflings because yes there were lots of tieflings produced in Iathra during the demon rule but 500 years is a long time to purify the bloodlines again, and despite Harmonium propoganda Thaera probably had all kinds of planetouched (CG, CN, and CE). All Planetouched are probably les snumerous than half-hobgoblins - which by the way, is another example of the hobs acclimatising to a nicer way of life.

As to Duckluck's rules: Those are basically the rules I'm using anyway, so I'm on-side with them.

one last thing:

Quote:
The Harmonium is NOT tolerant. It's not willing to accept, tolerate, or condone divergent behavior and it will kill you if you don't do what you're told. The problem is that it's pretty much an expected and normal state for evil creatures so that they adapt better.

Just a reminder... The Harmonium isn't actually like this! Slip of the layer aside, they are an organisation which has always had Arcadia at its spiritual centre - that's LLG in alignment terms. Yes the Harmonium has a "our way or the hard way" attitude, but they're actually very inclusive and unprejudiced once you accept their Lawful and Good objectives - peace and harmony. Killing unbelievers is not the first recourse of the Harmonium: Its conversion to the cause. Evil creatures are allowed to sign up to the cause in the hopes that they'll see the light from within the system - and because even if they don't believe in it philosphically they'll (in Harmonium theory) have to follow the rules and end up doing good anyway. Of course, evil creatures are expert at using the rules of society for their own benefit and peverting the true course of harmony, but it is a peversion of the stated ideal. Exactly how much the hardheads have deviated depends on which option the DM picks from our 'Three Views of Ortho' section in the PDF, and whatever the truth, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the Harmonium thinks of itself as the good guys and is trying as hard as it can to be the good guys.

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Think I missed the 'contract with Alzrius' bit of Hobgoblin history, so it came as a shock just now. Sorry to throw it at you now but I think that its probably stretching credibility to have them former servants of Alzrius unless it was very briefly and they turned on him in a big enough way to become 'heroes' in the same way that the orcs managed to (and there's a danger of duplication there too).

The whole point of the story is the Hobgoblins turned against Alzrius en-masse and offered to aid the Knights of Harmony in subjugating the whole of Ortho as full members. The whole idea of the Alzrius connection is that it's a way to show that their past is still effecting them all these generations later.

Frankly, I don't see much in the way of the other races showing their devotion the way the Hobgoblins have.

Quote:
Its canon that at least some of the fey races were exterminated simply because they were mere allies of the enemy. I don't think that Alzrius' slave-guards would be allowed anything like a grip on power even so far away as Thaera. It just doesn't sit right with me (my other thought is that why would an Abyssal Lord hire mercenaries of a lawful race from lawful Acheron? Big philosophocal clash there and plenty of other chaotic evil fish in the sea...)

Because they obey their contracts and The Prince of Vol (I forget his name) promised the Hobgoblins their own nation as a reward for their faithful service. Instead, they were cheated by being given a massive piece of swampland.

Thus, they've spent the past 500 years reclaiming it and continuing to serve the Harmonium because they believe in it.

But, Alzrius is still waiting.

Ultimately, I still thinking that the Hobgoblins are the embodiment of Lawful Evil and is important to the history of Thaera as THE Harmonium friends amongst Evil types.

Quote:
Just a reminder... The Harmonium isn't actually like this! Slip of the layer aside, they are an organisation which has always had Arcadia at its spiritual centre - that's LLG in alignment terms.

And they caused an entire layer to fall into Mechanus.

Recall that on Arcadia, they attack Evil on Sight.

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'Charles Phipps'][quote wrote:
And they caused an entire layer to fall into Mechanus.

Recall that on Arcadia, they attack Evil on Sight.

First of all, the loss of Arcadia's Third Layer was an accident and in all the sources I've read the Harmonium were horrified at what happened. Yes it was brought about by fanaticism and actions that are evil, but they were still trying to make the world a better place. Saying that the camps are a typical example of Harmonium beliefs is like saying that Guantanamo Bay is typical of the beliefs of everyone who believes in democracy.

The Harmonium's base was and remains Arcadia, a plane of law and goodness (in Melodia, I think). Yes its not "as good" as Arcadia, but the difference is sufficiently slight that Angels and Paladins call kip there.

I'm obviously not claiming that the Harmonium is all sweetness and light.... but they are trying to bring about a world that peaceful and prosperous and without division, injustice, or war. If you are in the Harmonium, evil is probably all about your methods - its perfectly possible to be building a better world and believing wholeheartedly in the dogma while the game classes you as evil because of the actions you take to bring it about. Its not about making everyone part of the Orthorian Empire, after all. Its about making them nice.

As to killing on sight, two things. To quote the PSCS:

Quote:
Their goal is nothing less than recruiting every sentient being into the Harmonium. And once everyone lives in agreement with all others, then the multiverse will enter into a golden age of peace.

"Our way or the hard way" isn't quite the same as "convert or die." They want to convert people because (nowadays) they know that each dead evil-doer goes straight into empowering one of the enemy Planes. Only conversion denies them souls - which should obviously go to Arcadia, since Mount Celestia is "too namby-pamby" and Mechanus isn't motivated by goodness.

Also, as far as I'm aware your 'kill on sight' reference has only ever applied to native planar creatures of Arcadia, not the Harmonium organisation. If they really wanted to exterminate anyone who didn't believe as they do, then their role in Sigil would have probably have been written as more like that of the Mercykillers.

And as I said above, some angels and paladins both call Arcadia their spiritual home. They attack evil on sight because its evil. I imagine that evil gets attacked alot on sight in Mount Celestia, Bytopia, and Elysium too; its just that (from the Arcadians' prospective) evil can sometimes connive its way out of a good smiting on those Planes.

Anyway, on to Hobgoblins

It still seems wierd to me that an Abyssal Lord would hire lawful troops from Acheron when he'd be far more philosphically 'on the same page' with a Chaotic Evil race (of which there are plenty to choose from). I don't know if anyone else finds this glaring or even noticeable, but if it is then other people will also think it and so the matter should be addressed with some kind of explanation.

I've no real issue with the Hobgoblin race/culture and history on Ortho other than that however. I think my main feeling against them stems from the fact that hobgoblins are stealing the thunder of the orcs, who previously held our "evil warrior race turned good(ish) guys" position, and I don't want them to lose their place. Orcs and Hobgoblins are also a PC playable race (which beholders aren't really, despite all the good work done so far), another niche they now have to share.

Unfortunately however, we don't have that much written about orcs, except that they were involved from almost from day one and (probably) were prepared to tow the line, change their culture, and worship Lords of Order in a way that the hobgoblins are still resisting. They've lost their uniqueness on Ortho, and that's probably where a lot of the resistence to the prominance you are giving the hobgoblin is coming from. Orcs need space to grow, and based on the PDF, I'd say they're much more involved with the Harmonium and OCA than the hobgoblins, and correspondingly more widespread.

Let me finish by saying that you've obviously done a lot of work on hobgoblins, and I'm definately not suggesting that you cut and paste 'orc' over everywhere it says hobgoblin. They make a very nice addition to Thaera and as I said above a great example of a work-in-progress-race, but shouldn't be allowed to dominate the globe.

Oh yes, but to finish on a more positive note: I think I mentioned somewhere that Harmonium troops often get to "see the world" in a foreign posting during their first term of service - plenty of opportunity for Otaki to crop up (in relatively tiny numbers, obviously, but plenty enough for Player Characters) just about anywhere as a PC race.

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Quote:
It still seems wierd to me that an Abyssal Lord would hire lawful troops from Acheron when he'd be far more philosphically 'on the same page' with a Chaotic Evil race (of which there are plenty to choose from). I don't know if anyone else finds this glaring or even noticeable, but if it is then other people will also think it and so the matter should be addressed with some kind of explanation.

The major point is that Alzrius is a god that trusts individuals who want money and payment for their services. Alzrius, at least in my write-up, doesn't care about the Blood War. Thus, he trusted the Hobgoblins to handle the guardianship because they knew how to abide by a contract. It makes the betrayal by Crutag all the more ironic (and Alzrius' intent to get his revenge on the whole of the Hobgoblin race more enjoyable).

Ultimately, Alzius has no use for the unorganized rabbel of the typical Abyssal Lord. He's Chaotic evil himself but that doesn't mean he doesn't prefer minions who'll obey.

Maybe I should explain that more, however.

Quote:
I've no real issue with the Hobgoblin race/culture and history on Ortho other than that however. I think my main feeling against them stems from the fact that hobgoblins are stealing the thunder of the orcs, who previously held our "evil warrior race turned good(ish) guys" position, and I don't want them to lose their place. Orcs and Hobgoblins are also a PC playable race (which beholders aren't really, despite all the good work done so far), another niche they now have to share.

Well, I'm still uncomfortable with the idea that Orcs are Lawful since I always found the Lawful Evil designation in Second Edition to be silly. Smiling

However, I'd be willing to do a write-up on the orcs to differentiate them after finishing the Chaos Gods write-up.

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'Armoury99' wrote:
Orcs and Hobgoblins are also a PC playable race (which beholders aren't really, despite all the good work done so far), another niche they now have to share.

Actually, if I can get the monster class in working order (which I've stalled on because I don't want to spend a lot of time on stats and then have to start over when 4E comes out), I think a lot of people will want to play beholders, if only for the novelty. That said, it won't be an issue because they fill a different niche than the other evil races. Because they are a small minority on Ortho, they benefit greatly from their position in the government and, despite some lingering xenophobia, they stay very active in, and supportive of, the OCA so that they can keep that power.

This sets Beholders apart from orcs and hobgoblins who keep power for themselves mostly by being the baddest dudes in their respective areas. They also work through the government to achieve their ends, but they're pretty transparently just trying to carve out a slice for themselves, and don't really participate in the bureaucracy on the federal level (besides the Orcs' stranglehold on Metaphysical Harmony). Beholders, on the other hand, are actually over-represented given how few of them there actually are.

So yeah, Beholders at least are distinct. I agree that we will need more work on differentiating Hobgoblins and orcs. Otherwise, Hobgoblins will just be the orcs of Thaera and orcs will just be the Hobgoblins of Motmurck. We don't want that. I'm doing my best to build orcs into Ortho's government (I'm going to finish my Bureaucracy write-up soon, I promise), but I don't really know what to do with Hobgoblins that I haven't already done with orcs. Thoughts?

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I made a new thread for this.

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'Duckluck' wrote:
Seems like if the Harmonium are willing to kill gnomes, a race that isn't even chaotic, for being like races that are (does anyone have a better explanation?)

A better explanation might be that Ortho never had any gnomes in it, or the gnomes it did have were chaotic (and perhaps even malicious). There's no reason to assume it was ever populated with standard D&D gnomes.

Published Planescape sourcebooks mention humans, beholders, orcs, dwarves, and the now ethnically cleansed elf and pixie races as the inhabitants of Ortho. It's for that reason that I wanted to emphasize those as the major races, with other species more regional in range.

Somebody (I forget who, possibly Eldersphinx?) in these forums decided that halflings and gnomes had been exterminated too, but we could as easily decide to say they're still around (if someone has an interesting take on them), or that they never existed. Nothing's written in stone.

Charles, it's awesome that you're putting so much work into this project and I don't want to come across as overly critical.

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Well, I seem to recall reading something about Marsh Halflings in the PDF, so they seem to have survived in patches but are mostly gone, which seems about right. Gnomes getting killed, on the other hand, just doesn't make a lot of sense. Standard D&D gnomes would not have been killed for being who they are (gnomes are by far the most placid and agreeable people in most D&D settings, if they are sometimes a bit addled). It's possible they were killed because of something they did though. It's possible they allied with the elves, but this doesn't seem like the sort of things normal gnomes would do (they're sort of the Switzerland of D&D groups), and unless they were really gung-ho with their alliance the Harmonium wouldn't have killed them all for it anyway. This leaves a few possibilities, none of which are what we currently have.

*The Gnomes did something to really piss off the Harmonium. Maybe they armed the elves with special weapons, maybe they sheltered the elves and died along with them (possible, but depends on the Harmonium being driven enough to kill a neutral party and the gnomes being weak enough to not stop them).

*Someone else killed the gnomes: Maybe the gnomes got in the way of one of the Knights of Harmony's allies (orcs, maybe?) and the Knights just looked the other way. Maybe they got killed by one of the Knight's enemies. The elves killing the gnomes would make a good excuse when it came time to kill the elves. Maybe the gnomes lived in Iathra and Alzrius killed them because he/it thought they were weak. Anyone could have killed them, really.

*The Gnomes killed themselves off. Not terribly likely but it could be they were experimenting with secrets beyond the mortal ken and paid the price. Kind of cliched these days.

*Ortho's gnomes are not like the ones we're use to. Maybe they were they were choatic, maybe they were warped by fiends, maybe they were just evil little bastards that deserved to be wiped out. If we go with the assumption that the Harmonium killed the gnomes, then this is probably the approach that makes the most sense. We don't need to justify what the Harmonium did, but we do need to explain it.

*Ortho never had gnomes. Maybe they just never came to Ortho. Not every setting needs to have every race in the Player's Handbook. It's also possible that they were once native to Ortho, but were killed off millenia ago (like the Goblins). Either way, it would explain why we don't see gnomes while absolving the Harmonium of one of their more baffling sins.

*Gnomes are still on Ortho! We'd have to change a handful of lines in the PDF, but really we've never made much fuss about the Gnomes being dead. We could return them to the land of the living pretty easily. Of course, we'd have to find somewhere to put them (maybe in the re-write of Omospondia...) and then we'd have to give them a history and an interesting culture (the standard "Hobbits meet mad inventors" one is sort of bland), but they wouldn't be all that hard to fit in.

So, those are our options. What do the rest of you think?

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Actually, I'm the party responsible for the Gnome Genocide. It's detailed in the history of Heka-Voll and we could well remove it if it's not something you want to deal with. The story of the Gnome Genocide is basically one that's meant to illustrate that the Harmonium isn't necessarilly behind every little single aspect of problem in society.

The Gnome Genocide was conducted almost entirely by Hobgoblin mercenaries working in the service of Regent Flayn of Voll's Great Grandson (also Prince Rohmel's Great Grandson through maternal lineage). Effectively, Flayn the Fourth was a blinding racist that wanted the resources of the region and having already had the region deeded to him by the partioning of the region by the Harmonium.

Flayn IV is loosely based on King Leopold of Belgium mixed with King Phillip and the sacking of the Templars. Basically, after the devastating war with the wizard kingdoms of Heka, the region was already under tight military domination with the Gnomish kingdoms in the land largely isolated from the rest of the land. Flayn, wishing to claim the wealth of the Gnomish kingdoms, manufactures atrocities by the Gnomes to justify his invasion. After the Hobgoblins finish the job, he then has the Harmonium's troops massacre them in order to cover up the action.

Flayn is later murdered by Akashi the Destroyer and the whole of the land's colonists are destroyed in a devastating plague. I'm not sure whether the whole evil plot is Akashi's doing at the start or whether Flayn did it and Akashi replaced him out of a perverse sense of justice but its in the history of Heka-Voll.

I don't reference it anywhere else but I tend to think Flayn The Fourth is viewed as one of the Harmonium's most hated and infamous citizens. Either that or they attempt to totally blame Akashi.

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I'm sorry, your Heka-Voll write-up came at a busy time in my life and I'm sad to say I never did read it. Obviously I missed some important changes. There are a couple things you said that I'm not sure about, but I'll withhold comment until I read the write-up itself. I'll give you my two cents then.

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'Duckluck' wrote:
I'm sorry, your Heka-Voll write-up came at a busy time in my life and I'm sad to say I never did read it. Obviously I missed some important changes. There are a couple things you said that I'm not sure about, but I'll withhold comment until I read the write-up itself. I'll give you my two cents then.

Thanks, I look forward to your thoughts.

I think part of my problem is that I'm rather self-referencing and that's a habit I should really get out of with this project. A lot of my stuff appears to have more prominence than it really should since I build off of it so that it doesn't seem to be as isolated as other stuff that's located in the book (mostly written with the idea of being self-contained until the history and provinces were more firmly defined).

This is especially noteworthy with Hobgoblins, Po Ji, Akashi, and Alzrius. Frankly, they've been raised to a bit of artificial prominence because I kept referencing each of them throughout my write-ups. This resulted in the problem that my Hobgoblins suddenly seemed way too prominent over the much better established Orcs.

The genocide of the Gnomes I conducted simply because there didn't seem to be a story about it and I heard (clearly wrongly) that they were dead. Thus, I decided to use it to establish some "street cred"

* Allowing Hobgoblins to do something absolutely monstrous (the genocide of the Gnomes) to establish their place as major bad guys on Ortho.

* Allowing the possibility that Akashi the Destroyer orchestrated the catastrophe and making him guilty of something Province wide horrible to reinforce his role as Ortho's "Doctor Doom."

Ironically, I used Xaric as a model for Hekka because it allowed the Gnomes to live alongside the Wizards in relative peace prior to the end of everything.

I look forward to your thoughts.

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Now that I've read the write-up here are my thoughts on the gnome issue.

Gnomes were established as dead, but not for any pressing reason, so I don't blame you for actually explaining their death. The thing I don't understand though is how Voll was able to justify killing them. The king of Voll can tell whatever horrible lies about the gnomes he wants, but all that would do is prompt a Harmonium investigation to confirm that the atrocities happened. Of course, they'd find nothing and put a stop to any war immediately -- unless the atrocities were real, but the gnomes weren't the culprits. Maybe it was Akashi and the Alzrians behind the killings and Flayn blamed the gnomes because he didn't want to seem powerless.

Either way, the Harmonium wouldn't want a war (those aren't exactly harmonious) and certainly wouldn't let an outside force of Hobgoblins be the ones to fight it. I can see the Hobbos moving in quickly before the Harmonium can intervene, but it takes time to totally wipe out a species (and that's assumes there were no gnomes on Ortho outside Heka-Voll). Plus the Harmonium would perceive any unauthorized war as treasonous. Besides, what did the Hobgoblins get out of it? They'd just come to terms with the OCA, they couldn't afford to defy them!

In order for this particular act of genocide to work, you need to better explain why Voll went to war, why people believed the atrocities the King claimed, why the hobgoblins took part, why the OCA looked the other way, how the hobgoblins were able to kill all the gnomes, and why the Harmonium didn't intervene against the hobgoblins until after the genocide was complete. That's sort of a tall order.

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