New Joker- CE Done Right

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HeavenShallBurn's picture
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New Joker- CE Done Right

I just got back from a late showing of Dark Knight.  I'm not going to rave on about the movie, there are other boards for that kind of thing.

 What I am going to do is say that this time the joker was truly everything that could be hoped for.  In addition he can provide all sorts of inspiration for planescape.  Because this Joker seems to be a true personification of CE.   A veritable well of potential CE goodness to draw from here, and a way to understand how CE works inside it's own head so to speak.

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For me it really showed how

For me it really showed how Good has to be bent, shorn, twisted in order to fight that kind of Evil. Good with hard choices and regrets to me is what makes for great characterization and why playing characters with G in their alignments can be way more fun than playing evil ones.

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Furthering Sciborg's

Furthering Sciborg's comment, it ALSO showed that, although Good vs. Evil gets weary if it's made too bright and shiny, it can still make for a compelling story when the atmosphere is right.

HeavenShallBurn's picture
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Oh I agree completely Good

Oh I agree completely Good vs Evil can be very compelling when done right.  Thing is that requires there to be actual evil, and a lot of people tend to shy away from portraying that.  If evil things aren't happening then it isn't really GvsE it's just sort of opposing teams like most TV series or kid's cartoons.    But I pointed out the Joker because his newest portrayal is quintessential CE at its finest.  There's some very deep philosophy there, it's just massively f@@ed up and Evil.  I mean this joker could come straight out of Plaguemort, and as an opportunity to get inside the head of CE it shines.  Especially toward the end as you see things come together and the joker makes it clear why he does these things.

Eldan's picture
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Was batman good, then? I

Was batman good, then? I only saw Batman begins, and one could argue that he was mostly lawful there, and good only as a secondary characteristic.

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Batman was a lot closer

Batman was a lot closer along NG, with a few L tendancies in this one I suppose you could say. Harvey Dent on the other hand was L to the G with belt-buckle. It was an *excellent* movie and you really should see it. For an 'action' movie it wasn't much *about* the action really.

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Batman LG? Madness. That's

Batman LG? Madness. That's always been Superman's schtick. Batman is a vigilante with a small number of self-imposed constraints, following his own sense of what is right and wrong and what needs to be done. NG or CG.

Now, the Joker was indeed the epitome of CE, an exemplar of his philosophy trying to enforce his beliefs upon the world. It was a brilliant performance; I'm not sure if there's ever been a better example of a CE philosopher.

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I just came home from the

I just came home from the theatre and I'm impressed! I went to the movie with my mom and sister and they were just as impressed as I am. Now having watched the movie, I can better appreciate what you meant by the thread. This not a batman movie. This is "Joker: The Movie". 

I liked that throughout the movie Joker was never shown actually buying, stealing or transfering the equipment he uses. How and when did he get all that explosive to the hospital, the ferries and a hundred other places at once?That's his magic, I guess.

Do you think the Joker as portrayed here would go to Abyss or is it Carceri or Pandemonium?

Also which faction would he belong to? The Revolutionary League or the Trancendant Order? Or non at all?

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The joker is classic Abyss

The joker is classic Abyss material, note how he goes about his "work."  He always attempts to show that control in all its forms, organization itself, is an illusion created by the participation of individuals.  He seeks to cause people to tear down all order, even the simple kind implicit in a Carceri-like plane.  Yet it isn't randomness, it's desire.  He tries to engage individuals to break down structures and destroy other individuals in order to forward their personal will at all costs.  To quote Lovecraft "The time would be easy to know, for then mankind would have become as the Great Old Ones; free and wild and beyond good and evil, with laws and morals thrown aside and all men shouting and killing and revelling in joy.  Then the liberated Old Ones would teach them new ways to shout and kill and revel and enjoy themselves, and all the earth would flame with a holocaust of ecstasy and freedom."  Basically that's the Joker in a nutshell, everyone should take "Let do as thou wilt be the whole of the Law," absolutely everything and anything one wills or desires and make it happen no matter what it means to others.  I see Joker as being altogether beyond Factions in any sense of the term, he would not hesitate to associate with anyone in order to further his will but that would be the whole of the interaction, they're nothing more than tools with which to bring about his desires to him and he desires to bring them to a state where they regard the cosmos likewise.

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