New to forums; need some advice

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Zuj
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New to forums; need some advice

Hey, let me start off by saying this site is one of my most frequented visits for DnD/Planescape resources.

In any case, I wanted some clarification, but first a little background. I own all of the 2e planescape items that are published (thanks to svgames for the stuff I couldn't get on amazon), and I have the 3e Manual of the Planes and Planar Handbook.

I have an Eberron campaign going with the same players that I used to play 2e planescape so long ago, and I wanted to take them to the planes once more. My issue is with dealing with some of the changes to the planar pathways, mostly involving the etheral/astral plane adjustments. Below are my questions:

1. Am I clear on the fact that the ethereal no longer connects the inner planes to the prime? What adjustments should I be making to some of the 2e material to account for this fact?

2. I read the house rules for changing the clerics' spell power back to how it was in 2e with the removal of their spell levels. Is this the best idea? I guess I could see some HUGE game balance issues there. Is there some kind of system where maybe we could just alter their power level slightly, like a -2 penalty on diametrically opposed planes, and a +2 on aligned ones?

3. I would really like to allow one or two of the PCs to have unique type races/characters similar to what is found in Torment, and everywhere else throughout the planes. Unfortunately, my group is not very high level, and some of the ECL's don't match up. What do you all think of using the rules in the Planar Handbook and/or just scaling some of the PC's races down?

The reason I ask all of these, is that though I am a very experienced DM, planescape or otherwise, I have had trouble with the 2e to 3e planescape conversions in the past. These three issues above are really my biggest problems, and I just wanted a bit more personal insight than what I have seen offered in the content sections (unless of course there is something I totally missed).

Thanks! Laughing out loud

ripvanwormer's picture
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New to forums; need some advice

'Zuj' wrote:
1. Am I clear on the fact that the ethereal no longer connects the inner planes to the prime? What adjustments should I be making to some of the 2e material to account for this fact?

You don't have to make any adjustments. The example cosmology in the Manual of the Planes is just an example; there's nothing that says you have to use it in your own campaign, or even that you should use it in your own campaign.

I think 90% of us on these boards use the Planescape cosmology with only a few additions or alterations. Most of us like the idea that the Ethereal connects the Inner Planes and Material. The default 3e way makes the Ethereal Plane a lot less meaningful and relevant; I recommend you ignore it.

Quote:
2. I read the house rules for changing the clerics' spell power back to how it was in 2e with the removal of their spell levels. Is this the best idea?

I think it's a terrible idea, personally. The clerical spell level alteration was a legacy of the 1e adventure Queen of the Demonweb Pits, and it was specifically designed to compensate for that by adding a lot of portals to Material Planar worlds where clerics could rest to recover their spells before continuing on with the adventure.

It was stupid that this idea was continued into all planar adventures, whether they were constructed that way or not. In this case, I think the 3rd edition way is much better; there's no reason divine spellcasters should be penalized more than arcane spellcasters.

Quote:
Is there some kind of system where maybe we could just alter their power level slightly, like a -2 penalty on diametrically opposed planes, and a +2 on aligned ones?

You could do that if you want, but I recommend altering cleric spells the same way wizard spells are altered.

Quote:
3. I would really like to allow one or two of the PCs to have unique type races/characters similar to what is found in Torment, and everywhere else throughout the planes. Unfortunately, my group is not very high level, and some of the ECL's don't match up. What do you all think of using the rules in the Planar Handbook and/or just scaling some of the PC's races down?

Sounds fine to me. If someone wants to play, say, a mindflayer but without an illithid's racial hit dice, I don't see anything wrong with it. For example, in Torment, Fall-From-Grace didn't have a succubus' hit dice or all of a succubus' racial abilities, but she was still an interesting character.

Or if all the players are okay with having one or two members of the party being quite a bit more powerful than the others, that's okay too.

eldersphinx's picture
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New to forums; need some advice

Note that while divine spellcasting isn't affected by planar location in 3E, clerical turning is a Charisma-based check, and affected by alignment traits. This does reduce a cleric's power somewhat, without imposing a lot of difficult and cumbersome rules effects.

Zuj
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Thanks to both of you, I'll keep those tips in mind. If anyone else has anythign to add, please feel free! Laughing out loud

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New to forums; need some advice

'ripvanwormer'][QUOTE='Zuj' wrote:
Quote:
3. I would really like to allow one or two of the PCs to have unique type races/characters similar to what is found in Torment, and everywhere else throughout the planes. Unfortunately, my group is not very high level, and some of the ECL's don't match up. What do you all think of using the rules in the Planar Handbook and/or just scaling some of the PC's races down?

Sounds fine to me. If someone wants to play, say, a mindflayer but without an illithid's racial hit dice, I don't see anything wrong with it. For example, in Torment, Fall-From-Grace didn't have a succubus' hit dice or all of a succubus' racial abilities, but she was still an interesting character.

Or if all the players are okay with having one or two members of the party being quite a bit more powerful than the others, that's okay too.

Indeed, a lot of books have included "monster levels" for PCs, and it's easy enough to design them yourself given a copy of Savage Species and some spare time. It is also possible to excise a critter's HD and just use the level adjustment, too, but just beware an LA may need adjustment if the creature doesn't have any HD. It's a tricky judgement to make sometimesl, but there are many ways of resolving the issue.

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New to forums; need some advice

For "monster" PCs, look for Savage Species style progressions. Either in that book, in the now-retired Savage Progressions article from Wizards.com, the Planar Handbook (for hound archons, lillends, and kytons), or a homemade one. Be wary of homemade monster progressions, though. This is one of the hardest things to balance, in my opinion, and is probably best left to the experts. It's often disastrous enough when the experts do it.

Besides that, I would even more highly recommend finding a "lesser" version of a creature and treating it as a full-blooded specimen. Like using a Changeling from Eberron as a doppelganger, or a Shifter as a full lycanthrope. AD&D did this with all monster races, and it usually works, if it fits your personal tastes. So what if your eladrin PC doesn't cast all the spell-like abilities that others like him do? It just encourages players to pick unusual races for the character potential, not for the optimal array of powers.

I think Fall-from-Grace was the ultimate example of a "monster" PC done right. There was no need to explain why she didn't have all the other succubus powers, from shapechanging to flight. All you need is just an iconic life-draining kiss, enough Charisma to melt steel, and a kickass backstory.

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Clerics...

Our group just knocks clerics down an effective caster level for all spell-related checks. Like SPell DC's and such. We feel the loosing a whole level was extreme too >.<

-pb-

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