New Feats

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New Feats

I've got a bevy of new feats for your delectation here; more may be added at my whim. Any thoughts?

Empty Soul

Prerequisites: Amoral, ability to cast three necromancy spells of level 2 or higher
Benefit: When the subject of any divination spell, you may make a Charisma check as per Amoral to disguise yourself as undead. By increasing the DC by 5, you may attempt to disguise yourself as mindless undead like a zombie or a skeleton. Spells which also pierce illusions, such as true sight, are not affected.

Picture of Innocence

Prerequisites: Amoral, Bluff or Disguise 8 ranks, Base Will save +5.
Benefit: You get a Will save against any spell, spell-like ability, ower, psi-like ability or supernatural effect that detects alignment. This is in lieu of any similar benefit, if applicable -- i.e. this does not stack with any similar ability -- and the DC is 10 + (half caster level or HD) + caster's Charisma bonus. If the save is made you may masquerade as any alignment you please, including "alignment unknown", or have it give no answer as per the Amoral feat. If the save is failed, you may still reduce the intensity of your aura (as per the table in the Player's Handbook) by one degree. The character detecting your alignment does not know that you get a saving throw regardless of whether you make the save or not.

Additionally, if your alignment is magically disguised (for example, by means of a misdirection spell), you get a Will save with the same DC as above against any attempt to detect that disguise. If you make the save, the disguise is not detected.

Alignment Camouflage

Prerequisites: Amoral, Picture of Innocence, character level 12th.
Benefit: You automatically adopt the alignment of any plane you're on for the purposes of detection, divination, and alignment bonuses/penalties. If the plane has an alignment type, divination spells or effects that do not specifically target you consider you to be something mundane and commonplace to the plane. You receive bonuses commensurate with being a native to the plane, although you are still vulnerable to the non-alignment environmental effects and still technically of the Extraplanar subtype and so can be banished as usual.

Although you cannot fool foreigners, natives to the plane must make a Will save against 10 + your character level to recognize you as non-native. [This is of mixed benefit on, say, the Abyss.] Extended conversation can reveal you as an impostor, but you also receive a +10 bonus to all Bluff, Disguise and Diplomacy checks with any native to the plane until the native makes the relevant opposed check. Once the native has seen through your disguise, you may never fool them in this way again.

Home Away From Home

Prerequisites: Must have made kip in the target plane for over a year.
Benefit: Choose a plane that you have made kip on for over a year. When you are subjected to dismissal, banishment or any similar effect, you may opt to be banished back to this plane instead of your home plane. If you are being banished from your "home away from home", you must return to your plane of origin as normal.
Special: For the purposes of this feat, Sigil counts as part of the Outlands. You cannot, however, specify that you will be banished into Sigil proper.

Iron Gullet

Prerequisites: Fortitude Save +5, Con 11
Benefits: You may consume any foodstuff suitable for any being of your type without ill effect. Additionally, you gain a +4 saving throw bonus against ingested poisons, and a +2 saving throw bonus against nausea or scent-related effects.

Linguist

Prerequisites: Speak at least five languages total, speak at least one outsider language (e.g. Modron, Celestial, but not Planar Trade), speak at least one mortal language (e.g. Elven, Orc), speak at least one elemental language (e.g. Terran, Ignan).
Benefits: You have mastered the art of communication. First, Speak Languages becomes a class skill for you. Second, provided you have conversed with a creature of the same type as your interlocutor, you may communicate without difficulty. This means you receive no penalties on Diplomacy checks, Bluff checks (including combat feints against intelligent beings) and Intimidate checks regardless of any language, racial or cultural barrier. Finally, you receive +1 to Diplomacy, Bluff and Intimidate to any interaction with beings whose language you are fluent in.

Attraction of Opposites

Prerequisite: Control 5 ranks, any neutral alignment.
Benefit: Three times per day you may, as a move action, cause a character within 50' of you to take a 5' step towards another character of opposite alignment on either the moral or ethical axis. This other character must be within 50' of the targeted character and there must be a legal 5' step that can bring them closer. If there are multiple possible opposing characters, you may choose which character they are attracted to.

The 5' step is considered a swift action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity. This is a supernatural effect, and the targeted character receives a Will save at DC 15 + your Charisma modifier if they wish to resist. For the purposes of this feat, neutral is not considered opposed to anything.

Repulsion of Opposites

Prerequisite: Attraction of Opposites, BAB +5, any neutral alignment.
Benefit: Three times per day you may exert your will to cause opposed alignments to attack each other without mercy. Characters of ethically opposed alignments attack each other with a +2 circumstance bonus; characters of morally opposed alignments gain a +2 circumstance bonus to damage. This is a supernatural effect that affects all characters within 30' of you. For the purposes of this feat, neutral is considered opposed to anything not neutral.

Balance of Opposites

Prerequisite: Attraction of Opposites, Repulsion of Opposites, Fortitude Save +8, Will Save +8, character level 12th, any neutral alignment.
Benefit: Once per day, you may invoke a field of neutrality that weakens all those who are not in balance. Any character whose alignment does not contain some component of neutrality takes a -2 penalty to all rolls: attacks, damage, saves, everything. Any character who alignment contains exactly one component of neutrality takes a -1 penalty to all rolls. Any character who is true neutral gets a +1 circumstance bonus on all rolls. This is a supernatural effect that affects all characters within 50' of you, as well as all effects that are targeted or centered within that radius, and lasts for 3+Charisma modifer rounds (minimum 1).

Nemui's picture
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Ah, there's nothing quite like a fresh batch of Planescape-related feats to dissect...

Empty Soul: Do you get the bonus even if you're not aware of the divination attempt? Also, you say "any divination spell", and then exclude those that "pierce illusions"; what does that leave, detect undead? Generally unclear.

Picture of Innocence: Again, is the character aware of an "Detect Alignment" attempt? If not, is the "mask" randomly determined? Also, the name of the feat suggests an evil-aligned creature disgusing as a good-aligned one, which is not always the case.

Alignment Camouflage: The alignment part is already covered by the prerequisite feats.

Iron Gullet: Primary benefit unclear. Define "foodstuff", "suitable", and "ill effect". The second sentence seems to suggest that none of the previous three terms includes poisonous substances?

Linguist: Looks like a d20 Modern talent (which is also called Linguist, IIRC). Underpowered. Consider giving a permanent tongues effect (Su) instead.

Attraction/Repulsion of Opposites: Do you need to be aware of the alignments of targets for the effect to work? If yes, then the use of the feat is severely limited. If no, the feat suddenly provides a weird and complicated "Detect Alignment" effect (which was not the idea, IIUC).

Balance of Opposites: Is the effect detectable in some way? If yes ... (see above). Also, a flat numerical bonus is typically applied only to task resolution rolls (attacks, saves, skill checks, and ability checks; all d20 rolls, in other words), and not to damage rolls, various percentage rolls, etc. This unwritten rule serves to quantify the usefulness of a bonus.

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Ah, there's nothing quite like a fresh batch of Planescape-related feats to dissect...

Empty Soul: Do you get the bonus even if you're not aware of the divination attempt? Also, you say "any divination spell", and then exclude those that "pierce illusions"; what does that leave, detect undead? Generally unclear.

Picture of Innocence: Again, is the character aware of an "Detect Alignment" attempt? If not, is the "mask" randomly determined? Also, the name of the feat suggests an evil-aligned creature disgusing as a good-aligned one, which is not always the case.

Alignment Camouflage: The alignment part is already covered by the prerequisite feats.

Iron Gullet: Primary benefit unclear. Define "foodstuff", "suitable", and "ill effect". The second sentence seems to suggest that none of the previous three terms includes poisonous substances?

Linguist: Looks like a d20 Modern talent (which is also called Linguist, IIRC). Underpowered. Consider giving a permanent tongues effect (Su) instead.

Attraction/Repulsion of Opposites: Do you need to be aware of the alignments of targets for the effect to work? If yes, then the use of the feat is severely limited. If no, the feat suddenly provides a weird and complicated "Detect Alignment" effect (which was not the idea, IIUC).

Balance of Opposites: Is the effect detectable in some way? If yes ... (see above). Also, a flat numerical bonus is typically applied only to task resolution rolls (attacks, saves, skill checks, and ability checks; all d20 rolls, in other words), and not to damage rolls, various percentage rolls, etc. This unwritten rule serves to quantify the usefulness of a bonus.

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'Nemui' wrote:
Ah, there's nothing quite like a fresh batch of Planescape-related feats to dissect...

Someone has to make you happy Eye-wink

Quote:
Empty Soul: Do you get the bonus even if you're not aware of the divination attempt? Also, you say "any divination spell", and then exclude those that "pierce illusions"; what does that leave, detect undead? Generally unclear.

I don't know about the bonus if you're not aware of the divination attempt; I'm tempted to say that the effect is like a bit that can be toggles as a free action or something like that. As for what spells... well, detect law/good/etc., detect thoughts, arcane sight and so forth.

Quote:
Picture of Innocence: Again, is the character aware of an "Detect Alignment" attempt? If not, is the "mask" randomly determined? Also, the name of the feat suggests an evil-aligned creature disgusing as a good-aligned one, which is not always the case.

The name could be misleading, of course, but Picture of Depravity isn't nearly as fun Eye-wink As for the awareness... this one should be modified as the above to read:

...actually, it'll have to wait. Duty calls!

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Alignment Camouflage: The alignment part is already covered by the prerequisite feats.

No it's not, unless I'm missing something; if for no other reason than no save is needed to camouflage yourself. Furthermore, it extends beyond mere detection into outright subversion: for example, some layers of the Abyss (in 2nd edition, at least) deal damage to all non-evil characters who venture therein. With Alignment Camouflage you'd take no damage at all and could remain there indefinitely.

Quote:
]Iron Gullet: Primary benefit unclear. Define "foodstuff", "suitable", and "ill effect". The second sentence seems to suggest that none of the previous three terms includes poisonous substances?

"Any substance that a creature of your type can ingest without harm, you too can ingest without harm." Is that clearer?

Additionally, you gain +2 on saving throws versus ingested substances which are poisonous to all creatures of your type, i.e. things that you'd still regard as toxic even with this feat. That seemed clear to me, but maybe not.

Quote:
Linguist: Looks like a d20 Modern talent (which is also called Linguist, IIRC). Underpowered. Consider giving a permanent tongues effect (Su) instead.

Really? I'd've thought that was overpowered, but ok. Let me think about it some more.

Quote:
Attraction/Repulsion of Opposites: Do you need to be aware of the alignments of targets for the effect to work? If yes, then the use of the feat is severely limited. If no, the feat suddenly provides a weird and complicated "Detect Alignment" effect (which was not the idea, IIUC).

Good point. In that case it should be rewritten to move the character towards the closest person of the opposite alignment, period, with a random roll breaking ties.

Quote:
Balance of Opposites: Is the effect detectable in some way? If yes ... (see above). Also, a flat numerical bonus is typically applied only to task resolution rolls (attacks, saves, skill checks, and ability checks; all d20 rolls, in other words), and not to damage rolls, various percentage rolls, etc. This unwritten rule serves to quantify the usefulness of a bonus.

No, the effect is not detectable on a localized level: that is, you can't tell whether your opponents are doing greater or lesser damage, at least not directly. [You could do so indirectly if you knew enough about them to figure out what their expected damage was, then deducing whether they'd received a benefit of... uh...] For flat numerical bonus, it's not true that such things are not applied to damage rolls -- indeed, there are a ton of bonuses of the form "+1 to damage" like, e.g. Weapon Focus -- although you're right that it should not meaningfully encompass percentage rolls as well.

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'Anarch' wrote:
'Nemui' wrote:
Empty Soul: Do you get the bonus even if you're not aware of the divination attempt? Also, you say "any divination spell", and then exclude those that "pierce illusions"; what does that leave, detect undead? Generally unclear.

I don't know about the bonus if you're not aware of the divination attempt; I'm tempted to say that the effect is like a bit that can be toggles as a free action or something like that. As for what spells... well, detect law/good/etc., detect thoughts, arcane sight and so forth.

What, you register as undead on the detect thoughts radar?

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Quote:
]Iron Gullet: Primary benefit unclear. Define "foodstuff", "suitable", and "ill effect". The second sentence seems to suggest that none of the previous three terms includes poisonous substances?

"Any substance that a creature of your type can ingest without harm, you too can ingest without harm."

Which would be ... what, exactly?

Does this include poison or not?

Quote:
Additionally, you gain +2 on saving throws versus ingested substances which are poisonous to all creatures of your type, i.e. things that you'd still regard as toxic even with this feat.

I'm a human with this feat, so I can now eat anything that a humanoid can. A duergar is a humanoid, and immune to poison. Ergo, I can eat poison.
No?

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Quote:
Linguist: Looks like a d20 Modern talent (which is also called Linguist, IIRC). Underpowered. Consider giving a permanent tongues effect (Su) instead.

Really? I'd've thought that was overpowered, but ok. Let me think about it some more.

Nah, tongues can be made permanent with permanency. You could limit the feat by asking for Int checks to understand a new language when you hear it. There's a similar ability for droids in the SWRPG - a "Translator (DC 10)" device means the droid can attempt a DC 10 Int check to understand a new language.

Quote:
For flat numerical bonus, it's not true that such things are not applied to damage rolls - indeed, there are a ton of bonuses of the form "+1 to damage" like, e.g. Weapon Focus - although you're right that it should not meaningfully encompass percentage rolls as well.

Weapon Focus gives +1 to the attack roll, not damage, but I see your point. However, most effects that give a bonus to a non-d20 roll specify very precisely what this roll is (like Weapon Specialization). A catchall +X bonus should go only to a task resolution roll (d20) IMHO.

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'Nemui' wrote:
Which would be ... what, exactly?

Does this include poison or not?

Teach me to type in haste. The definition should have read as follows:

"Anything that a being of your type can ingest to derive sustenance, you can also ingest to derive sustenance."

The answer to your question, then, is that if there's a being of your type that can ingest the poison as food then you can do so too (and are therefore immune to the poison when ingested). If you were exposed to the toxin in any other way, however -- by injection, for example, or by contact or inhalation -- you would still be subject to its effects.

Quote:
I'm a human with this feat, so I can now eat anything that a humanoid can. A duergar is a humanoid, and immune to poison. Ergo, I can eat poison. No?

As incorrectly typed above, yes. As I meant (see the correction), not necessarily. For example: cyanide is a poison in D&D terms. Furthermore, to the best of my knowledge no humanoid can subsist on cyanide. This means that cyanide does not fall under the embrace of Iron Gullet and therefore you would not be immune to it. You would receive a +4 on your saves (presumably to Fort) if you were to ingest the cyanide, but no bonuses if it were injected or inhaled or whatever.

Conversely, many mushrooms are poisonous to most humanoids. [In D&D terms, therefore, they'd probably count as a "poison" even though that's not a bright line in nature.] These mushrooms are, however, food to some humanoids: that is, they can eat the mushrooms without being poisoned and derive meaningful nutrition thereby. If you had Iron Gullet, you too could eat those mushrooms without being poisoned. If the toxins in the mushroom were prepared differently, you wouldn't be immune but you'd get +4 to your saves.

Is that clearer?

[An alternative would be just to give outright poison immunity to ingested poisons but that, to me, misses the whole point of this feat. It might be cleaner from a systemic point of view, though, because D&D isn't exactly elegant in dealing with the messier aspects of biology.]

Quote:
Weapon Focus gives +1 to the attack roll, not damage, but I see your point.

See above re "typing in haste" Eye-wink

Quote:
However, most effects that give a bonus to a non-d20 roll specify very precisely what this roll is (like Weapon Specialization). A catchall +X bonus should go only to a task resolution roll (d20) IMHO.

Fair enough. How about this as the benefit: all checks* (including skill checks, saving throws, and attacks) are made at a -X penalty; all damage is reduced by X (to a minimum of 1) before any resistance or DR is applied; and this applies to any character within the neutrality field or to any character effected within the neutrality field; where X = 1, 2 or +1, depending on the alignment parity.

* Is "task resolution roll" actually part of the d20 lingo or is that your descriptor for this sort of thing?

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'Anarch' wrote:
"Anything that a being of your type can ingest to derive sustenance, you can also ingest to derive sustenance."

Is that clearer?

Yes. Yes, it is. However ... (and yes, I am being a pain in the ass on purpose here Sticking out tongue )
I tend to avoid definitions as broad as that, since they leave room for possible future abuse. It's not inconcievable for WotC to publish a book describing a humanoid race that feeds on poison, marbles, darkness, or on crumpled pages ripped out of RPG accessories in anger; that suddenly, "magically", gives a new option to the PC with the feat.
Not a big deal, I know, but I prefer cleaner definitions when it comes to feats.

Quote:
Is "task resolution roll" actually part of the d20 lingo or is that your descriptor for this sort of thing?

I think it is part of the lingo. Doesn't sound like something I would make up, but I'm not 100% sure. Dunno if it's from the core books, accessories, FAQs, or what...

Confirmation, anyone?

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'Nemui' wrote:
It's not inconcievable for WotC to publish a book describing a humanoid race that feeds on poison, marbles, darkness, or on crumpled pages ripped out of RPG accessories in anger; that suddenly, "magically", gives a new option to the PC with the feat.

Wouldn't that be the primary draw for such a feat (other than the poison resistance, I mean)? I mean, you would take the feat so that you could feed on ashes like tieflings can. Or am I wrong, here? Is the intent that the feat be used to prevent people from having to make saving throws when they eat curry, or kim chee, or wasabi or habanero peppers for the first time?

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Actually, I agree with Nemui; that particular feat as it stands is hopelessly problematic.

For one thing, it's far too dependent on what resources the players happen to have. If a player pulls out a Dragon issue that the DM doesn't have that details a humanoid that derives its sustenance from the air around it, does the DM have to allow it? The feat description just says "a being of your type"; it doesn't restrict it further or specify from what sources "beings" count.

Along those lines, I see huge potential for bickering over interpretations. What if, in the above example, the DM decides those air-eating humanoids just don't exist in his campaign? Is the player going to accept that? What if the player pulls something from a really old 1E or 2E source? (Yes, I know creatures weren't assigned "types" before 3E, but in most cases it's still pretty clear what type the creature would fall into.) Do these old 1E or 2E sources still count?

And then there's the important issue that the books don't always specify what a creature eats, and it's often not obvious. A bariaur is a monstrous humanoid, so a bariaur character with this feat could eat whatever any other monstrous humanoids can eat. What does a gloom (from the Epic Level Handbook) eat? What about a spell weaver (from the Monstrous Manual II)? And some that are specified are seriously problematic. The phthisic, a monstrous humanoid from the Psionics Handbook, is said to "feed on the mental energy of other beings". So...can a bariaur with this feat do that, too?

Things get even messier when you consider the effects of templates...a sufficiently clever player is going to be able to use this feat to justify his character being able to eat pretty much anything at all. Granted, a DM is likely to overrule many of those justifications, but still, a feat shouldn't leave itself so blatantly open for abuse in the first place.

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What Smeazel said. It's just too open to interpretation.

I'd suggest changing the feat description to give a short list of substances that you can feed on, perhaps divided by creature type. Or perhaps by planar region (if you're using regional feats ... which reminds me ... another thread, then).

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Maybe something like "Iron Gullet: You are immune to indigestion and discomfort from eating unusual or spoiled food, but do not gain the ability to gain sustenence from materials you would not ordinarily be able to gain sustenence from. Additionally, you gain a +4 saving throw bonus against ingested poisons, and a +2 saving throw bonus against nausea or scent-related effects."

Then you could have a seperate feat for really unusual foods, with Iron Gullet as a prerequesite. Maybe something like Supernatural Gullet: You can gain sustenance from anything you can chew or swallow. You do not gain the ability to drain energy levels, create or drain emotions, or photosynthesize light.

There could also be feats along the lines of Tiefling Gullet, Ursinal Gullet, and Bariaur Gullet. They might be more flavorful.

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What about "fhorge gullet?" The ability to eat whatever a fhorge can eat would probably satisfy the intent of the feat.

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Ooh, I like Fhorge Gullet! It rolls off the tongue nicely, and its more planescapish than iron.

The 3E Fiend Folio doesn't state what a fhorge eats, so the feat would need to list its basic food groups: roots, tubers, insects, carrion, and razorvine (according to PSMC II). But this should probably be expanded. How about any non-toxic, non-poisonous organic matter? Or is that too much?

Also, the feat should mention that you don't get the fhorge's ability to chew through stuff, only to digest it, so you might still need to prepare the more unusual foodstuff somehow.

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'Nemui' wrote:
The 3E Fiend Folio doesn't state what a fhorge eats, so the feat would need to list its basic food groups: roots, tubers, insects, carrion, and razorvine (according to PSMC II). But this should probably be expanded. How about any non-toxic, non-poisonous organic matter? Or is that too much?

If you can eat razorvine, there are probably very few non-toxic organic substances barred from your palate. Of course, you still wouldn't be protected from being cut by it.

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My keyboard's suddenly gone on the fritz, but here's a revised version of Empty Soul. I've actually split it into two feats due to feature bloat (thanks, Nemui, for friggin' Hide the Spark Eye-wink); here's to hoping it's still interesting and useful. The "adopt a chosen form" part of Empty Soul still needs some work, I think, since although the distinction is quite clear fluffwise it's not so clear crunchwise.

Empty Body

Prerequisites: Amoral or Dead Truce or Hide the Spark, know three necromancy spells of level 2 or higher.
Benefits: Mindless undead will not attack you unless you attack them first as per the Dead Truce feat. In fact, you do not even register to mindless undead, effectively gaining the benefits of greater invisibility against them. Intelligent undead must make a Will save against DC 10 + (1/2 your character level) in order to attack you. The undead may make a new save every round as a free action; once it succeeds, it need never again make the save. Intelligent undead also receive a -2 penalty when attacking you or when making any Charisma-based skill check against you.

Empty Soul

Prerequisites: Empty Body, know three necromancy spells of level 3 or higher.

Benefits: There are three distinct layers to this feat as befits the Rule of Threes, all of which are supernatural. First, you may, as a free action, alter your life energies so that you appear undead. This gives you a +10 bonus to all Disguise checks when you attempt to appear undead, as well as a +5 circumstance bonus to all Bluff checks where appearing undead is an essential component of the bluff. [This is, naturally, at the DM's discretion.] Furthermore, any divination spells or spell-like effects will cause you to register as undead if appropriate. This disguise may be dropped at any time.

Second, you can attempt to shroud yourself still further in undead energies as a standard action. When shrouded and affected by any effect that confers a benefit upon creatures with the undead type, make both a Will save and a Fortitude save against DC 15 + (1/4 your character level). If they succeed, you may receive the benefits of that effect as if you possessed the undead type: for example, an inflict light wounds spell will heal you, you would receive the benefits of the Necromantic Might feat, and so forth. You do not actually possess the undead type, however, so you do not detect as undead nor can you be turned as such; nor are you damaged by effects that damage undead like cure light wounds. When the shroud is dropped, which may be done as a free action, you no longer gain the benefits of any continuous effect although the benefits of instantaneous effects do not expire. The shroud may be maintained for 10 + your Constitution bonus rounds per day, although these rounds do not have to be consecutive; and while shrouded you are considered disguised as above.

Finally, pick a number of types of undead equal to your Wisdom bonus that you have actually fought or interacted with for a significant amount of time. [DM's discretion once more.] Once per day, for a number of rounds equal to 3 + your Constitution bonus, you may adopt the form and essential traits of one of those types of undead as a standard action. You are considered to have the undead type, including all the appropriate immunities, as well as any specific immunities or resistances of your chosen form. You gain any extraordinary non-combat abilities of your chosen form, but gain no spell-like abilities, extraordinary combat abilities (including special attacks or special defenses that are neither immunities nor resistances), nor any supernatural abilities beyond the immunities and resistances as noted above. You gain an automatic +30 circumstance bonus to all Disguise and Bluff checks to appear as your chosen form of undead and you receive an automatic Charisma check against caster level (as per Amoral) versus any divination spell to register as your chosen form, whatever that might mean. Both of these apply regardless of whether you are aware of the attempt or not. Your alignment detects as the most common alignment for an undead of your chosen form (pick the alignment closest to you if there's a choice), but it does not actually change: if you are Lawful Good and mimicking a ghast, you would detect as Chaotic Evil but would still be affected by either Unholy Blight or Chaos Hammer.

While adopting an undead form you can be turned or rebuked as an intelligent undead with Hit Dice equal to your character level, irrespective of the form, but you cannot be destroyed. Inflict spells heal you and cure spells injure you as undead. If your chosen form has special vulnerabilities (such as sunlight or garlic to vampires) these do not affect you as per the chosen form in any way, but you do take a -1 penalty to all attacks and skill checks while subject to the relevant conditions. If you have chosen to adopt the form of a mindless undead you are considered mindless and therefore cannot be the subject of detect thoughts or similar effects, but you must make a Will save against DC 20 each round or be unable to act.

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Those are cool. Would "lichloved" also be an acceptable prerequisite for Empty Body?

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