New Cant for Old Tales

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New Cant for Old Tales

One of the more frustrating things when trying to write IC for Planescape is the fact that we really don't have a lot of cant, especially for things that ought to be heavily encanted (to coin a horrific new phrase). Voila's Dictionary is nice, but severely limited, so I'd like to offer this thread as an opportunity to kill two mephits with one stone. Either offer your new cant expressions here -- such as "kill two mephits with one stone" or, preferably, one that doesn't suck Eye-wink -- or, perhaps as importantly, offer the term you'd like translated into cant. I'll lead off with some from a story I'm writing...

Doxylord: A pimp.
Fairy: A frequent, anonymous visitor to a prostitute; in Modern English, a john. Comes from rhyming slang and the observation that many planes have a standard phrase for "Any old sod" like "Tom, Dick and Harry", all of which seem to end in "-arry". Do not use on Arborea.
The Game: Used by Cagers or celestials, The Kriegstanz. Used by high-up fiends, The Blood War.

And now, the requests. Does anyone have any cantic (another horrific neologism!) suggestions for...

  • A rich or powerful individual, not necessarily factional
  • "hush-hush"; something that is trying to be kept quiet
  • An expression of contempt for something trivial or unimportant
Feel free to offer your own innovations, or ask your own questions, here.

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Rich or powerful I think "pincher" would be a good one as in penny pincher.

Not sure about a new one for the hush hush one but maybe "keep it in the dark" which is a pretty common Planescape cant.

How about "not worth a false copper" for the contempt or trivial one

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Re: New Cant for Old Tales
  • A rich or powerful individual, not necessarily factional

    >>>Cull. Similar to the respect of a "Blood", but more along the lines of finances over experience/skill.

  • An expression of contempt for something trivial or unimportant

    >>>Lindsay Lohan? Uh, no, wait... Paris Hilton.

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Re: New Cant for Old Tales

"Anarch" wrote:
  • A rich or powerful individual, not necessarily factional
  • "hush-hush"; something that is trying to be kept quiet
  • An expression of contempt for something trivial or unimportant

- High-up
- light-sensitive (from "dark")
- a demiplane

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Re: New Cant for Old Tales

"Anarch" wrote:
  • A rich or powerful individual, not necessarily factional
  • "hush-hush"; something that is trying to be kept quiet
  • An expression of contempt for something trivial or unimportant

If we're to follow the rhyming slang of Cockney, as the Cant often does (no, I will not translate the real meaning of 'berk', suffice to say it's a swear word), then possibly something like this:

1. A gilded sword, from "Golden Lord"
2. A fine piece o' sable, from "under the table"
3. A marble bit, from "useless s***"

I like the "pincher" too, although I think that would only apply to individuals who are wealthy but not powerful. I don't think anyone would have the guts to call Estavan a pincher.

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New Cant for Old Tales

Here's one I've been using in my campaign:

Uns - a derogatory expression tieflings use for a regular human. Rhymes with dunce.

Origin: long ago, human Cagers used to call tieflings 'stainers', because of their supposedly corrupted blood. That phrase is no longer used, but the reverse phrase, 'unstained', is still used in shortened form.

I've also been using the phrase 'in a tick', similar to the modern phrase 'in a minute'.

I don't have anything good for the others, but maybe for 'trivial' you can use 'not worth a mephit's title'.

By the way, is there any cant for 'to steal'? I know there's several for cheating someone out of their jink, but I can't think of anything right now that means outright theft. I'm sure I'm forgetting something. Puzzled

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Lighten their load, acquire, lift, and umm borrow permanently?

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"Truth Golem" wrote:
By the way, is there any cant for 'to steal'?

Cross-trade. A thief is a knight of the cross-trade.

According to this dictionary of Victorian slang, "blag," "min," "nail," "prig," "vamp," or "knap" might work.

According to this one, "half inch" (for pinch).

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Cross-trade is a noun, or occasionally an adjective (as in "cross-trading berk"). I'm looking for a verb. Saying "Hey, someone cross-traded my jink!" sounds silly somehow.

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"Bob", "nick" and "pinch" are all synonyms of "steal" in English slang; I usually use all three in PS to refer to pickpocketing and the like, reserving "cross-trade" for something more... adventurous. [It's sort of a thiefly honorrific IMW, a former insult turned into a badge of honor.] You can also use "peel" for a scam or a con.

My turn again: what common nicknames would each of the major classes/professions have earned? Things along the lines of...

Fighter: Basher, chopper, smasher, butcher, swordslinger, swordsinger, tank (or ram if you're more medievally inclined)

Mage: Spellslinger, spellchucker, wizbang, artillery (or catapult or ballista)

Thief: Knight of the cross-trade (yay!), bobber, pincher, swagman, coneycatcher

Cleric: Godbotherer, proxybait

Psionicist: Skulltwister (one of my favorites)

...and that's not even tapping rhyming slang, e.g. (disparagingly) calling a mage a "tart" for "subtle art". [Although the purist in me notes that that's ill-formed for rhyming slang.] Anyone else got any other favorites?

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"Anarch" wrote:
...and that's not even tapping rhyming slang, e.g. (disparagingly) calling a mage a 'tart' for 'subtle art'. (Although the purist in me notes that that's ill-formed for rhyming slang.)

How about 'muffin' then? Muffins and tarts = subtle arts?

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Or "knaves." The Knave of Hearts = Subtle Arts. You could actually get a bunch of synonyms for arcane spellcasters and magic from that poem: knave, queen, Your Majesty, baker...

CAGER: What're you doing, berk? Baking tarts?

BIGBY: What? No! I'm casting my Interposing Hand spell. It's famous.

CAGER: That's what I said, berk! Does this look like a summer's day to you?

BIGBY: Uh, no. It's been quite brisk lately, though I haven't noticed anything like actual seasons...

CAGER: Have you been paying your tart-baking tax, Your Majesty?

BIGBY: My what? I just told you, I'm doing magic!

CAGER: That's all I needed to hear, knave. You're in big trouble for tax evasion! All of these premises are hereby confiscated in the name of the Fated.

BIGBY: See here! I don't think you know who I am.

CAGER: (Grinning) I know who you are, Bigby. Do you know who I am?

BIGBY: No, and I don't care for your tone...

CAGER: And I don't care for you stealing tarts! I'm Duke Rowan Darkwood. Get out of my city.

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Or, going from baker and muffin, you could use it as folk etymology for a magical item (possibly one of limited use).

"Eh? That berk? He's peddlin' a right load o' muffins, he is."

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"Kaelyn" wrote:
CAGER: And I don't care for you stealing tarts! I'm Duke Rowan Darkwood. Get out of my city.

*chokes on dinner* SWEET!

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"Now - don't be going for any of those half-baked goods. I hear they're pipin' hot." (stolen magic items, and shoddy ones at that)

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Another week, another question

(Not that I'm shamelessly bumping this or anything but...)

OK, another request: how would cant distinguish between various levels of killing? Specifically, what would the cant terms for...

  • killing in self-defense
  • justifiable homicide, e.g. killing in someone else's defense
  • crime of passion, e.g. killing your spouse after they cheated on you
  • accidental killing, as in a buglary gone wrong
  • murder, e.g. for profit. Might be synonymous with "assassination", might not.
  • serial killing (which is what prompted this question): gratuitous, repeated killing for pleasure/psychosis
...be? We have generic terms for this like "put in the dead-book" but they lack the specificity I'm interested in.

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Well, I guess it would depend on the methods of killing.

Hmmm, if they call magic 'the Art' is killing someone with magic called 'painting them?'
Or 'drawing them?'

somehow, i think 'carving them' sounds better.

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Serial killing: "Feeding Jack"

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"Clueless" wrote:
Serial killing: "Feeding Jack"

I always liked scribing the dead book. Or a scribe of the dead book to mean a profesional assasin or killer or serial killer.

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I don't know about a name of a crime of passion but how about a defense of Temporary Barmy. Laughing out loud

Then again maybe the Ciphers would call it something like instinct killing. Not sure if that is very good and certainly not a general term but it just came to me as I was writing this post.

If you don’t like it, pike it berk I was just Temporary Barmy or something….

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Re: Another week, another question

"Anarch" wrote:
OK, another request: how would cant distinguish between various levels of killing?

I'd personally lean towards variations on 'scribed into the dead-book'.

...although, none seem to be coming to mind right now. I was thinking various literary terms somehow similar in nature to the type of killing.

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Well, you could easily define different levels of precision in your killing-- with sloppy, reckless murder being "scribbling him in", and a masterful hit leaving no evidence would be "fine calligraphy". I like the idea of magical killing being connected to the Art-- "painted his name in the deadbook", or simply "painted him".

A suicide could be said to "write his own epitaph", or maybe even "sign himself in".

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A particularly bloody or accidental murder could be "spilled ink", while an assassination could be "ripping a page".

I really like the appellation of Crowfeeder for an assassin. Maybe something connected to that, like "crow's feed" for a victim of a hit.

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OK, more vocabulary fun. We have a word to describe rumors, the word-on-the-street, the general sense of what's going on: the chant. We have a word to describe what's really going on: the dark. We also have a word for falsehoods, for empty speech, for bullsh** if you will: screed.

What about other kinds of information, though, or stuff in-between? For example:

  • "hush-hush"; something that is trying to be kept quiet (I already asked this, I'm including it for completeness' sake Smiling)
  • The rumors that those in the know are circulating. They don't have to be correct -- they're not necessarily darks, IOW -- but they're not public-enough knowledge to be considered chant.
  • Popular rumors that happen to be false. Screed can cover this, but I'm wondering if there might be something more specific.
  • Deliberate misinformation, fake rumors being circulated for a specific end
  • Expensive information, knowledge bought dearly.
  • Trivial information. [I sometimes use the phrase "whistling" for this, as in "that's just the whistle of the chant" or "he's just whistling chant over there."]
  • Company or trade secrets. More specific than dark, this, it refers to the secrets of the defining characteristic of one particular person, institution or polity. For example, the inner machinations of the Fated would be the dark of them; the <insert phrase here> would refer to the precise mechanism whereby they control the taxes and records of Sigil.
And then, of course, what are the terms for disseminators or possessors of information? Loremaster, rumormonger, screed, chanter, whistler, Thoth-head... there should be plenty more out there.

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wheee, i like this game!

"Anarch" wrote:
[*] Popular rumors that happen to be false. Screed can cover this, but I'm wondering if there might be something more specific.

White ink.

Quote:
[*] Deliberate misinformation, fake rumors being circulated for a specific end

Rat-tails.

Quote:
[*] Expensive information, knowledge bought dearly.

Brights. "He bought the bright of it."

Quote:
[*] Company or trade secrets. More specific than dark.

Gears. "He found some gears that the Fated would kill him for."

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Damn, that was quick. Also: love'em. You wouldn't happen to have a stash of cantic goodness hidden away somewhere, would ya? :twisted:

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Heh. No, it's just that your requirements are so concise that the words immediately jump into my head. Also, I like making stuff up off the top of my head. I'm less good at recalling Cant. My players love all the weird stuff I make up during our sessions, but they hate it when I can't remember what I said last session. Laughing out loud

Are you using all this new cant in your campaign?

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"Krypter" wrote:
Heh. No, it's just that your requirements are so concise that the words immediately jump into my head. Also, I like making stuff up off the top of my head. I'm less good at recalling Cant. My players love all the weird stuff I make up during our sessions, but they hate it when I can't remember what I said last session. Laughing out loud

I know nothing whatsoever about that problem. :roll:

[Incidentally, what does it say about Planescapers that there are two devilish smileys and no angelic ones here?]

Quote:
Are you using all this new cant in your campaign?

I'm largely using these terms in a story I'm writing -- now thirty-five friggin' pages and counting Puzzled -- to give a more authentic air to the Sigilian conversations, but I fully plan to use at least a few of them when my campaign finally starts next week. It could just be me, but I like to have a bunch of words at my disposal from which I can then pick out le mot juste -- ooooh! cant that! Laughing out loud -- because I feel it gives my speech (whether mine personally as DM, or my character's as an author) a more authentic feel.

It's sort of like, if your vocabulary consists of "chant", "dark" and "screed", picking any one of those three words is never going to mean what you want. At best, it's an approximation; at worst, it's simply better than the alternatives. Having ten or fifteen other words to choose from, though, makes using "screed" meaningful again since I could have used "white ink" or "rat-tails" or "Bedlambub"*, each of which means something a little different. Same thing, in a story, of choosing to describe something as "blue"; if all you know are the primary colors it doesn't mean much, but knowing "aqua" and "sky-blue" and "royal blue" and "navy blue" and "midnight blue" and "cerulean" and "ocean" and "seafoam" and so forth, the word suddenly attains valences that it otherwise lacked.

At least, that's my story and I'm sticking it to it. Plus, I just like languages Eye-wink

* Bedlambub: the kind of barmy meanderings one would expect of a drunk in Bedlam, or that a Bedlamite would use to further their barminess. Used to be exceptionally derogatory in that it implied mental impairment on the part of the speaker; nowadays, just refers to any old babbling, whether from fear, love or just what we Earthicans would call a "brainfart".

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Heh. And here I just have enough trouble avoiding mixing up my Planescape cant and my Shadowrun slang.

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A novella! That's even better. I look forward to seeing it here.

As for your mot juste: Ring for the Spire, as in "He found just the right ring for the spire when he said that." Smiling I prefer a bon mot to a mot juste any day. Eye-wink C'est parfait, n'est pas?

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"Krypter" wrote:
A novella! That's even better. I look forward to seeing it here.

It's not so much a novella as my pathological inability to shut the hell up Eye-wink

Quote:
As for your mot juste: Ring for the Spire, as in "He found just the right ring for the spire when he said that." Smiling I prefer a bon mot to a mot juste any day. Eye-wink C'est parfait, n'est pas?

Mais oui, c'est parfait! Don't mind the probes, btw; I just want to sup on your juicy, juicy brain...

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*GRIN*
Chronicles would be absolutely delighted to host you know... Eye-wink
Which reminds me - I need to get cracking on some conversions of material for that section.

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"Clueless" wrote:
I just have enough trouble avoiding mixing up my Planescape cant and my Shadowrun slang.

*nods* I've been known to have the same problem. Both ways.

"Pike off, chummer" is a pretty fair compromise, I think.

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Hoi, cutters

The SR Rule of Threes:

1. Never deal with a dragon,
2. The Johnson will always screw you,
3. Immortal elves run the world/multiverse.

So are you excited about SR4 yet?

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"Krypter" wrote:
Hoi, cutters

The SR Rule of Threes:

1. Never deal with a dragon,
2. The Johnson will always screw you,
3. Immortal elves run the world/multiverse.

So are you excited about SR4 yet?

That's not right.

1. Deal with dragons? Who ever has a choice in these matters other than the dragons? No it is best to deal with a dragon, unless you want to be eaten or incinerated.

2. Nope. Johnsons will often screw you, but not always. It isn't always profitable to screw runners; this is especially true because competent runners are hard to find.

3. That's what they think yes. There is always a bigger fish even if the little fish don't see it coming.

Yes. Eye-wink

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Looking forward toit - I'm curious to see where the plot line went from the last edition. Admittedly I rarely run much past 'Big D is dead.' Eye-wink Or rather: I rarely run. :cry:

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"Clueless" wrote:
*GRIN* Chronicles would be absolutely delighted to host you know...

I'd be absolutely delighted to have it hosted there, provided it doesn't suck Eye-wink

On which note: insults. Need as many as you can fling at me. I'm really looking for insulting words rather than phrases, but I'll make do with both in a pinch!

I'll lead off: you sodding 'leth-piker!

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"Krypter" wrote:
So are you excited about SR4 yet?
No.

I'm happy with SR3, and I'm staying with SR3.

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"Anarch" wrote:
On which note: insults. Need as many as you can fling at me. I'm really looking for insulting words rather than phrases, but I'll make do with both in a pinch!

Insults, eh? You want racial slurs or just general put-downs of someone's intelligence or appearance? Post 3 or 4 specific instances you want insults for and I'll bet you get some real hard-hitting ones that'll almost draw blood.

As a general note, when you want to insult someone vis a vis their sexual preferences, you could go with 'loths, but weak, ugly or diminutive creatures make better jibes, especially if the animal reference is actually a subtle reference to said 'loths. Take rats, for example. Rats might mean rats, or it might be a slanderous reference to a particular race. Now if you call someone a rat-f###er, you're getting double your money's worth!

With the beastiary of the entire outer planes to choose from, you can get REAL creative with this approach alone.

With racial slurs, it's good to get right to the heart of their most vile stereotypes and misconceptions. (forget tiefers, I feel sorry for the poor bariaurs!)

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You mean something much like a 'puppy-licker' ? *hides from shemeska's wrath*

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Now that's what I'm talking about.

Arcanoloths have canine heads, therefore the reference to dogs. But you've (delightfully) gone a step further by choosing the word puppy, which implies cuteness, goodness and powerlessness; all things any proper 'loth would revile. Then, the person you are insulting is a -licker which implies subservience. Two little words insult both the target and his presumed masters. Well done. You get a gold star.

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*happy squee* *bites on gold star to confirm it's in fact... gold* Eye-wink

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Still there is a huge difference between puppies and arcanaloths. Puppies you see are able to be house trained.

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"Clueless" wrote:
*happy squee* *bites on gold star to confirm it's in fact... gold* Eye-wink

"Gold? Did I say gold? I don't think I said gold. I'm almost certain I said copper...Hey, look over there! Is that the Lady of Pain?" Enzo disappears into the crowds as soon as she looks away. He almost trips, however, at the reference to house training! LOL!

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Insult personalized:
Yeah. Loth's ain't like puppies cause puppies at least can be housetrained. Take Shemeska, that b**** leaves messes and piddles everywhere she goes. Bloody one's too. I think it means she's in heat and is upset because Akin woln't let her get any of his freindly fiend.

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Annnnnd - we will go no worse than that... B/c we are operating loosely under a 'Eric's grandmother' rule. Eye-wink

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"Clueless" wrote:
Annnnnd - we will go no worse than that... B/c we are operating loosely under a 'Eric's grandmother' rule. Eye-wink

And an 'I know where you live and I have no morals' rule.

*looking cold but calm*

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"Gerzel" wrote:
because Akin woln't let her get any of his freindly fiend.

:shock:
Laughing out loud

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"Shemeska the Marauder" wrote:
*looking cold but calm*

Awwww. That's a good puppy. Pity about the cold, though.

*covers you in a blanket* Laughing out loud

As for the insults, I'm looking not so much for directed attacks at other individuals -- although that's fun too -- as the following categories:

1) Generic expletives. The Sigil equivalent of "crap!" or "son-of-a-bitch!" or whatever.

2) General terms of disdain. I like "hezrou" (out of tanar'ri earshot, natch) since it's toad-like and "toad" is exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for, but that's a little too... well, capable of ripping your head off. Contemptuous, dismissive, that sort of thing. Toad, weasel, worm, &c, all need counterparts in Sigil.

3) Expressions of anger. They don't have to be aimed at an individual as such, but they need to be good, chewy expressions. Can't really think of any analogues in English that are distinguished by more than context, though.

4) OK, fine: Outright insults. Things that start fights or end relationships. Leth-piker, loth-licker, slaad-slurper; something that's short, punchy and, hopefully, ends up punching.

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I think that Sigil, being the place that it is, would see a lot of cross-over terms from different languages. So instead of "Shit!", you'd see the Abyssal or Infernal word for it. Imagine young Ezekiel coming home from school spewing Infernal cusswords in front of his Aasimar parents! Unfortunately, I have no idea what any of these planar languages sound like.

I know worshipping the LoP is not cool, but what about using her name in vain? Instead of "Jesus H. Christ!", a Cager might say "Lady's Blades!" or just "'Blades!". Or instead of "Goddammit!", "Flay it!".

And with all the various Powers and Dieties represented in the city, it'd be no surprise to hear all kinds of crude references. My favorite is "Shar's Tits!"

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"Anarch" wrote:
3) Expressions of anger.

I often use 'By the friendly fiend!' as a sort of indication of frustration.

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