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MUDs and Planeswalking

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Wed, 2005-04-20 21:25
#1
Iydkmigthtky
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MUDs and Planeswalking

Hello, we are currently helping to work on a massive endeavour for mapping the planes (somewhat in their relation to Sigil) on a MUD that's presently in beta testing. I would like to solicit general feedback with regard to 'geographical' (for lack of a better term) layout of the planes and their relation to Sigil or how some of these planes (the 4 elemental planes, prime material plane, the 9 hells, ethereal and astral and negative) are or might be accessed from Sigil.

I know this seems rather ambiguous at present but any assistance will be appreciated even if it is just posting a link of where I can find more detailed info of this nature.

Thank you,

The Elder Brainless

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Wed, 2005-04-20 22:01
#2
LegatoX
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Are you not familiar with the whole:

Inner Planes ---> Ethereal ----> Prime -----> Astral ----> Outer Planes (which Sigil is in the center of . . . the center of an infinity . . .)

?

I'd play Torment to get a good view of the "real layout" of Sigil.

Logically you would have Elysium as the furthest North of the outer Planes on your map, The Grey Waste as the furthest South, Limbo the furthest East, and Mechanus the furthest West.

I've never been on the creative team of a MUD though, so I'm not sure exactly how it's all laid out in the code.

Wed, 2005-04-20 23:11
(Reply to #2) #3
Gerzel
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Well for a mud you simply have each of the outer planes connected to each other through portals. You could even make code so that portals only open if the players have the right keys to the portals.

Wed, 2005-04-20 23:23
(Reply to #3) #4
Kaelyn
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You might look at the maps and descriptions and such on the Mimir's MUSH page:
http://mimir.net/psmush/index.html

And at the Evergold Portal: http://evergold.iwarp.com/mush/

Thu, 2005-04-21 05:35
(Reply to #4) #5
Clueless
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What code base are you working with? A Diku base or some form of MUSH base? The note above about portals may actually be your *best* bet. Planes are considered 'infinate' - and using portals to interconnect them would allow you to develop your areas as seperate sections.

Thu, 2005-04-21 06:22
(Reply to #5) #6
Fidrikon
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Um, sry, but whats a MUD? Ive picked up that its a program of some kind...

Thu, 2005-04-21 06:33
(Reply to #6) #7
Clueless
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Multi User Dungeon - think of it like online Diabolo, only non graphical and text based. You have a character - with stats and skills, spells, and equipment - that you control the actions of using text commands like: sit, stand, kill creature, open north, north - etc.

MUDs are a very old form of online game, from back when modems used phone lines and not cable. Eye-wink *puts on old fuddedy duddy hat and hobbles around on a cane*

They can be incredibly addictive and entertaining though. Especially a well designed one. There have been a lot of various developments for MUDs (MUSHes, MOOs - it's all the same basic idea of an internet chat room with a game world context) - so the code base question is just to see how familar I'll be with what they're doing.

trans_;2) Not that I've ever administrated a MUD before. Or coded one. Not that I'm the head admin of a place called Cthulhumud.... no.... not at all....

Thu, 2005-04-21 08:14
(Reply to #7) #8
Krypter
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So, Iyd, is this going to be a Planescape MUD, or are you simply using the Planescape cosmology to create the planar structure?

BTW, what is the best the Planescape MUD out there, and isn't the hack-n-slash nature of MUDs in contradiction to the nature of Planescape?

Thu, 2005-04-21 22:37
(Reply to #8) #9
Iydkmigthtky
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the MUD is called Kormar is Diku base and is a spinoff of the MUD Duris which is a spinoff of the MUD Sojourn/Toril.

Essentially we have planes but the only current method of accessing planes is by conjurer gateways.

The theme of the mud is very AD&D based but for the past several years the administration of our parent MUD has seen fit to totally balance around the Player vs. Player element of the game and has neglected to build a quality believeable fantasy atmosphere. We are seeking to depart from this method by having the game focus more on maintaining a believeable environment (world) and Player vs Player to be an inherent risk of exploring rather than a focal point of the game.

In any event the MUD is somewhat based on Forgotten Realms campaign but I believe also Planescape offers a very interesting and intriguing feel for what we want as far as planar zones are concerned.

We already currently have the following planar zones already built (Planar bosses in parens) as well as some zones within some of the planes:
The 4 basic elemental planes
Water Plane (Olhydra): Sea Kingdom
Air Plane (Yan-C-Bin): Bahamut
Fire Plane (Prince Imix)
Earth Plane (Ogremoche [+Entemoche as a rareload]): Temple of the Earth
Astral Plane (Demogorgon): Githyanki Hometown, Githyanki Fortress, Portal to Tiamat and Avernus
Negative Plane (
Ethereal Plane (Menzellon)
The Plane of Avernus (Avernus is presently accesible via a mountain in the Astral Plane or gate)
Celestia
and some presently disconnected Hell Planes:
Hell, Avernus
Hell, Dis
Hell, Minauros
Hell, Phlegethos

There are of course tons of other non-planar zones on the prime material plane but you get the picture.

At present all these planes have really nothing to tie them together so I was looking here as a potential resource for sort of tying them together in a more thematic manner.

Thu, 2005-04-21 22:43
(Reply to #9) #10
Clueless
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Thematically - I'd say make sure your builders have read planescape - so that the descriptions hang together well and are quality work. For your goals for your MUD - that's going to be your big thing. Encourage them to *READ*.

Gateways and portals are actualyl one of the most common ways in planescape to travel around - so it's not just a cop-out - but actualyl fitting to the setting to handle it that way. That and you can provide neat ways out of areas that you couldn't provide otherwise. I'd suggest working up a spell to 'analyze' the portal. If you can make it require keys, do so - and the spell is to help players determine the key and where it goes.

For other things that will make that area of the mud feel more like Planescape - take a look at any mob scripting you have. If you're set up for puzzles, and quest interactions - make some belief orriented quests. Not the sort where you can be led by the nose through it - but where you as a player have to learn or understand something about the area you're in. That's one of the core elements of Planescape play too.

Fri, 2005-04-22 04:33
(Reply to #10) #11
Iydkmigthtky
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Some VERY good ideas and exactly what we're looking for.

I appreciate the feedback.

Fri, 2005-04-22 07:32
(Reply to #11) #12
Persephone Imytholin
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I'm not much of a MU* person, but I'd imagine that a lot of IF principles would apply for what you're after.

Mimesis is everything.

Fri, 2005-04-22 08:31
(Reply to #12) #13
Krypter
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I noticed that you have the Elemental Planes, the Astral & Ethereal, and then a lot of Hells and one Heaven. Why not add some of the more interesting Outer Planes, like

  • Arborea - could be the plane where mythical monsters come from
  • Ysgard - adventuring in the Norse pantheon. Didn't the dikuMUDs have that as the default world?
  • Pandemonium - you could send PCs who have committed crimes to this prison plane.
  • Grey Waste - the place of ghosts and forlorn souls, where characters without bodies go.
Otherwise people might get the idea that the Planescape consists only of demons and angels and some elementals.

For portals you should definitely have keys. Make them required quest items.

[/]
Fri, 2005-04-22 20:13
(Reply to #13) #14
Anarch
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Unless I misread, you've only got Outer planes from the lawful side of the wheel. You definitely want to include some chaos ones; I'd recommend Carceri and Pandemonium, as I find them the most interesting, but the Abyss makes for some hack-n-slash fests too. On the upper side of the wheel, you have to include at least Ysgard (for combat) and Bytopia (for buying stuff), and I'd recommend the Beastlands as well for its sheer distinctiveness.

Other ones that would be cool, but hard to program in a MUD: Gehenna (permanent volcano-climbing), Elysium (the plane of perfect peace) and Limbo (sohCa!) And then, of course, you've got all the demiplanes you can shake a stick at, but I'll leave that to those better-lanned in the Ethereal and Inner Planes.

Fri, 2005-04-22 20:14
(Reply to #14) #15
Clueless
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If you're looking for a contained area to let lowbie wander in - while giving hte flavor of planes without the risk - take a look at doing the gatetowns and the outlands... no portals, all walking between cities. But each city will have it's own personality.

Fri, 2005-04-22 20:15
(Reply to #15) #16
Iydkmigthtky
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Regarding Ysgard... we have something similar but is not completely based off Ysgard.

The tree Yggdrassil presently loads on Astral plane which is currently the means we have to access Jotunheim.

The boss mob for Jotunheim is Thrym God of the Frost Giants as well as other character types.

The hells we have are currently disconnected but in the game.

As far as portal keys go there's presently nothing in the game that you can use to lock or unlock a portal itself so for now we just put those types of portals behind a locked door or gate of some kind.

The Abyss also would be a huge project but one that I personally am definitely willing to consider provided the admins of the game give it an ok. However I think something that massive would require the work of more than just one or 2 people.

The standard editor we use is modified and updated form of DikuEdit.

If anyone is familiar with this or perhaps would like to collaborate with me and perhaps some others in the future (it will most likely be after our opening date on around June 10th or 12th) I'd definitely welcome their insight and input.

Fri, 2005-04-22 20:55
(Reply to #16) #17
Iydkmigthtky
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Here's the other thing I've been trying to consider.. Access to sigil from the prime material plane (which is where all of our races begin at present). Githyanki started in Astral actually but they are reworking the race a bit for the time being.

So with that said the races that presently load into the game begin at their races hometown. I've posted a link to the map we are using at present. (there's also an UnderDark map but no link to it yet).

The evil races hometowns are to the south side of the map and the good races are to the north and northeast.

http://kormarmud.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=484

Fri, 2005-04-22 22:07
(Reply to #17) #18
LegatoX
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Does this MUD have an in-game map that is constantly displayed?

That is one of the things that I always liked in the MUDs I played, it made them so much more enjoyable. Rather than having to rely on the text description to see ways out, a little ASCII map coudl show the room you were in.

Once this is up and running I'd definately be interested in checking it out (I haven't played a MUD in a few years now and kind of have the itch).

Fri, 2005-04-22 22:12
(Reply to #18) #19
Iydkmigthtky
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Yeah it does but only on the part that connects the zones.

Inside the zones themselves no ansi map is displayed.

Though a variation of that had been considered for establishing a true line-of-sight but at the moment the coders have their hands full just trying to get the beast ready for opening.

At present we are still beta testing but there is an open public port to check things out:

64.40.105.235 5001.

I realize this may not be the best avenue for this but I'm more concerned with people that will that will contribute more of a true RPG feel. PvP and hack-n-slash will play a role in this game as well but it will not be nearly as pivotal as it has in the past.

A bunch of races were recently removed because of this very reason. Though there is the distinct possibility of them being re-added in the near future once we have a solid dynamic for expanding the game in place.

The races that used to be in the game and may be making a future reappearance are the following:

Githyanki, Orc, Illithid, Centaur, Minotaur, Thri-kreen

I definitely think Planescape offers really what we are looking for in terms of world feel to a large degree. Though at must be understood at present that most of the pbase are Prime Material Planar types. I would however like to see this develop further.

Sat, 2005-04-23 03:02
(Reply to #19) #20
Iydkmigthtky
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Sigil

Okay here's a rendition of Sigil I drafted up in Excel. Descriptions and the like haven't even been started but I would like more feedback on the layout.

Sat, 2005-04-23 10:59
(Reply to #20) #21
Kaelyn
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The maps here seem like they'd be good for MUD purposes.

Sat, 2005-04-23 12:20
(Reply to #21) #22
Iydkmigthtky
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Yeah that's what I used to base my above map off of.

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