Modrons feel pain right?

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bonemage's picture
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Modrons feel pain right?

Ok I was looking at the Planescape Races here on Planewalker (notice my comments on them in another thread that nobody is posting in Laughing out loud ) but anyway thats not important. What I am wondering is that if Modrons don't really feel much if any emotion. Do they feel pain? I mean Pain in a large part is emotional type respounce to an injury. I mean certainly its not all emotion like fear or anger but there are elements of those and other emotions in how we experience pain as human beings.

So if a modron (rouge or outcast of course) has a severly damaged leg can it simply make a logical conclusion that while the leg is damaged he is going to get more damaged if he doesn't try to use it and get away from comabt thus negating "pain" so to speak?

Then again I remember and will likely look it up at some later point in the Great Modron March adventure** warning minor spoiler**

a scientist/mage type crafting peices of biological enhancements out of modron parts and one of the things the party can do is end the "suffering" of these creatures and I think I remember them being in obvious pain but not being able to die because of the way the character has removed their body parts. Thus as long as they are alive their parts can be used by the character and they will not go back to Mechcanus like they normally would.

Any thoughts on this subject?

Kaelyn's picture
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Re: Modrons feel pain right?

They do feel pain, and they can feel fear and agitation too (see The Great Modron March, page 36 and 37). They aren't as emotional as, say, archons, let alone the hyper-emotional eladrins and tanar'ri, but they're not constructs either. Modron emotions are likely more mechanical and utilitarian than those of other outsiders, operated via pipes and valves and installed for practical reasons. But they're personifications of a world-view that says that everything in the multiverse has its place in the cosmic order; everything is derived from the same basic principles of order. As practical demonstrations of what Primus thinks everyone should be, they need to be explanations of emotion. Modrons are capable of emotion (though that doesn't mean they experience emotions every day or even every year) in order to prove that emotions, too, can be lawful, that everything can be lawful and everything can be explained.

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Modrons feel pain right?

Yes but again how does this relate to say like in my example trying to walk on an extremlly wounded leg? I mean can they do something like this easier than say a human? Because again pain is at least partially an emotional repounce not just pysical. I guess perhaps how can they control pain compared to many other races might be a better question?

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Modrons feel pain right?

I believe it depends from the type of the particular modron. The higher it is in automatons hierarchy, the more rational it is. It's just like any other exemplars, which are "purified" with gained status, emboding their alignment better.

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Modrons feel pain right?

"bonemage" wrote:
Yes but again how does this relate to say like in my example trying to walk on an extremlly wounded leg?

I imagine the others would simply kill it, so that they can have a newly recycled and completely undamaged modron.

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Modrons feel pain right?

Cold and rational. I like it.

The modrons would probably have set damage tolerance limits though. They're not so heartless as to rip apart one of their number that bruised its elbow or some such.

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Modrons feel pain right?

I imagine modrons would have a pain threshold just like we do, but it would vary according to their rank. They are partly organic, after all, not mechanical golems. I doubt they would kill a fellow wounded modron just to have it refresh back in the energy pool. Not only is that impractical, since the modron would be back on Mechanus instead of where it was supposed to be, but it probably squanders Primus' divine energy. Being efficient creatures of logic, they would utilize their given resources (modron bodies) to the utmost before expiring.

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Modrons feel pain right?

Ok I can see all this certainly with some kind of scale that is actually a pretty good way of approaching it. But then how do Rouge (Outcast) Modrons particually the incarnation posted on Planewalker here in the Races chapter fit into that picture?

I mean I think the discussion is great and insightful however I also want some pratical idea of how it might work for a rouge modron. I have a rouge modron as one of the pre generated characters I am using for a session I am running at a Con this weekend.

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Modrons feel pain right?

"Persephone Imytholin" wrote:
"bonemage" wrote:
Yes but again how does this relate to say like in my example trying to walk on an extremlly wounded leg?

I imagine the others would simply kill it, so that they can have a newly recycled and completely undamaged modron.

Also I don't think this is really the case at least during battle as it is noted during the Great Modron March. I mean perhaps the March is different being that they are away from their home plane but I could see "mercy killing" types like you suggest to have them regenerate on their home plane certainly.

Hey perhaps it is even something along this line that makes some of the modrons go rouge who perhaps have developed some sense of self work beyound the laws and society on Mechnunus?

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Modrons feel pain right?

Reactions to pain may be emotional - but it *does* serve it's purpose in terms of evolution as a feedback system. Much like the taste of 'bitter' conveys 'may be poisonious' - pain is a good way of tracking the intensity of damage to your body. I don't actually see modrons as any more or less likely to make use of a logical system like that.

Their reactions to the signal may be considerably less extreme though. Instead of flopping around screaming "It hurts! It hurts!" I'd see them as more likely to look at you and say "I am unable to move because my leg is broken. Please call a doctor. Immediately." Doesn't mean the modron's not in pain - just that his reaction is rationalized.

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Modrons feel pain right?

But again we are talking about a situation where the leg is hurt very badly but they are in a battle and fleeing. Would it be easier for a modron to simply make the logical choice that if possible it had to just use its leg to get away as opposed a human who might simply lie down to die or get a crazy burt of adreline to get away from the situation....

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Modrons feel pain right?

Probably not any easier or harder really I'd say... pain is still going to be pain, and it's still going to interfere in their operation. What we're talking about here is basicly pain-tolerance - how much can a modron put up with. And I don't really think that pain tolerance is a heavily emotionally influenced thing. Willpower - stubbornness - endorphine/adreniline rushes yes - but not as much emotional in what would be considered 'soft' irrational emotions... (Fear is a very rational emotion to feel when yer about to die for example.)

There's an arguement to be made that an emotional being may be able to have *more* tolerance than an unemotional actually - based on the idea that emotions are a distraction, a way of the mind buffering itself and allowing instinct to take over. (Hence the surges of adreniline allowing one to ignore the pain.)

Just as there's an arguement that an unemotional one would have more tolerance than an emotional one - being able to use willpower and acceptance to 'dull' the response to the pain and get moving because moving is logically more important than further damage.

You can argue in either case... but modrons *do* have a fleshy element to them - they aren't entirely clockwork - so yeah, they'd at least *feel* the pain.

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Modrons feel pain right?

Well modrons are actually more fleshy than metal if my impression of them in correct but I disagree entirly that there isn't a big emotional part to pain. I agree more of it is actual phyical unlike fear. But fear can certainly be a big part of pain but for example athlehtes and maybe this isn't a great example because of their generally better pysical nature have a higher pain tolerance generally.

I myself have had 2 knee operations been hit by cars while riding bikes and had some serious problems with my stomach. I have had wounds, cuts, injuries that I have seen others just lie on the ground and yell. While I have gotten up and walked on (for short distances) badly sprained ankles so I could sit in a chair or get home etc...

Much of that difference is emotional related and perhaps trained as you have been in that pain before. For example running a marathon can really hurt like hell near the end but there is a big difference between your first one (not knowing if you can finish) and those after even in your pain level because of your mindset. You know you can finish and the pain is more bearable because you have been there before and know you can have a good outcome rather than quiting...

I guess while modrons may or may not be any better or worse I would guess they are more likely to be more uniform in their type of reactions than human beings are wouldn't you say?

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Modrons feel pain right?

"Persephone Imytholin" wrote:
I imagine the others would simply kill it, so that they can have a newly recycled and completely undamaged modron.

They probably would, in extreme circumstances. Or any circumstances, if it wasn't forbidden, and they were conveniently in Regulus. After all, they have no individuality, so nothing is really lost.

The Great Modron March says that the dying, mutiliated flayed/stripped/dissasembled modrons in one of the chapters could in theory be brought back to Mechanus for repairs and healing. We can presume the other modrons would try to fix them before giving up their vessels as irretrievably lost, but it might be that they would only give them a merciful death, and the only reward the PCs could expect for their heroic efforts would be an XP award.

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Modrons feel pain right?

"Krypter" wrote:
I imagine modrons would have a pain threshold just like we do, but it would vary according to their rank.
I would imagine modrons maintain quite an extensive archive of categorised analysis on varying degrees of pain. Each time a new threshold is reached, certain modrons would be dispatched in order to analyse the new terms of this degree of pain by the suffering modron.

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