Mimir.net falling apart!

The Mimir was originally hosted on geocities, and it began a move to mimir.net in 1998 or so. It never completed its move, not completely.

Those links have been dead forever, though. Those URLs haven't been valid since 2000 or so. All of that stuff was archived under a different Geocities URL, though, and can probably be found on archive.org. And I saved all of it on my hard drive, I think.

I have a copy of the Mimir and its Geocities site.

I'm planning to pull it up as an archive here once I finish scrubbing out Geocities automatic code junk. Though if anyone has contact info for Mr. Winter - the Mimir's old admin, I would love to get files directly from him on this as well.

As a site note I also snagged copies of a good many other planescape sites. So hopefully I got the really big ones. If not - we can hope that reocities.com has them.

I usually try about once a year to catch up with him - but I think my emails keep ending up in /dev/null or a spam trap I hope you have better luck with it than I do!

Awesome! Hopefully that'll get a response then! If he has anythign that he can pass over to us so we can keep the sites going, I would love to get in touch with him on it.

[REDACTED] will get to me.

With a faint click then a gentle scrape then a clatter-creak, one metallic eye slowly opened. Then another. A dull light flicked to life in the pupil as the skull's magical energy oh so slowly grew. The jaw-hinge of the skull's mouth, frozen for so long with infernal rust, screeched a protest as the disembodied head tried to utter the words with a faltering hiss:

"My truename has been used..."

- - - * * * - - -

Planescapers - hello - I'm so sorry for all the trouble I've caused you with my appalling lack of contact. I hope to remedy this - and although I'm no longer an active D&Der, I'm still very much in love with Planescape. It sounds like you have some interesting plans... what did I miss in the 10 years or so I've been away?

Jonw

Those rumours of me joining the ranks of the Dustmen were greatly exaggerated.. Ah now, I certainly remember your name Rasgon, I hope this new decade finds you well! I think I got lost in the Astral at about the same time as 2nd edition - whoops, I nearly showed my age there by calling it 'A'D&D! So what's the dark about 3rd edition? 3.5th? 4th? Should I just wait for the 4.5th? Are any of these any good or was it all some jink-making scam? I think I may need to go a-hunting on Amazon...so what would you recommend I track down, and what should I leave in the long grass?

Fiendish Codex I: Armies of the Abyss was quite Planescapey (mentioned the Doomguard and such; it added a lot to the Abyss while drawing heavily from the Planescape books), though it provided origin myths for the tanar'ri somewhat different from the one in Hellbound. There were various discussions about how to reconcile the two: the main thing was you'd have to accept that the baernaloths created the ancient Baatorians and the obyrith demons who preceded and created the tanar'ri, rather than creating the baatezu and tanar'ri directly. I had been pushing for that anyway before the book came out, thanks to another, unofficial book written by the same author for another company. This produced interesting effects when interpreting the Hellbound timeline, but I think it was all to the good.

Beyond Countless Doorways was marketed as a "Planescape Reunion" because Monte Cook, Colin McComb, Wolfgang Baur, and Ray Vallese co-wrote it, and it details many different planes in a stat-minimum way. It didn't actually use the Planescape cosmology, but they were able to get permission to mention dabus, githzerai, and other Planescape things, and the planes were usable as realms, demiplanes, Prime worlds, and the like.

I liked a lot of what came out in 3rd edition - new planar creatures, some good articles in Dragon - but it's hard to recommend much from a "what happened with Planescape" perspective. A lot of the best innovations were scattered about in core books and magazines, to say nothing of third-party d20-system (3rd edition-compatible) books. My favorite planar adventure from 3e was Bastion of Broken Souls by Bruce R. Cordell, which involved a secret war between Demogorgon's heads, a death slaad, a titan imprisoned in Pandemonium, and an attempt by a dragon with a balor for a heart to usurp control of the Positive Energy Plane. It's the best and mostly the only attempt to really flesh out the Positive Energy Plane and its inhabitants. Lord of the Iron Fortress was all about Rigus and Acheron and featured a fallen archon originally introduced in Hellbound, but wasn't really as... colorful as a true Planescape adventure would have been. Not bad, though. Expedition to the Demonweb Pits had major scenes in Sigil, Yggdrasil, the Beastlands, and the Abyss and was written by Wolfgang Baur; it featured Rule-of-Three, the dabus, Graz'zt, the Plane of Mirrors, and much else, but in the end most people seemed to have found the adventure (the plot involved a convoluted effort by Graz'zt to embarrass Lolth at some kind of mystic treaty ceremony between the Abyssal lords) disappointing. It has promise, though, I think; it seems like there's a lot of potential in the idea of the PCs crashing a party in the Abyss that doesn't involve them simply slaying a bunch of lesser avatars and assorted demons and fleeing.

The 3rd edition Manual of the Planes was pretty well received; it mostly summarized the Planescape material with a chapter or two on 3rd edition prestige classes and spells, a monster chapter, and an appendix involving alternate cosmologies and optional planes. There was some controversy involving what was left out (no quasielemental or paraelemental planes) and some of the changes they made (the Astral touches every plane and the Ethereal only touches the Material Plane), but over all people were pretty satisfied with it. I don't know that I could recommend it for someone who just liked Planescape and wants to see what's happened in D&D-land since, though; if you have the Planescape books, you have what's best about the 3e MotP already.

4th edition broke continuity with the past, for the most part, and introduced a new cosmology with the Inner Planes replaced with a Limbo-like Elemental Chaos with the Abyss buried in its heart like a sapient cancer and Faerie given new attention as a major plane in its own right. There are some good things about it, and there are places for most of what was in Planescape in it somewhere (the major sticking point for me is the Blood War and how they turned succubi into denizens of Baator). Sigil's been given more attention than it's gotten in quite a while. Kingdom of the Ghouls was an adventure that came out in 2009 involving Orcus smuggling an ancient dead godlike entity through Sigil in small pieces; the mad wizard who originally appeared in 2nd edition's Vecna Reborn was a nice touch, and the description of the domain of the King of the Ghouls was very vivid and interesting. Amusingly, without succubi as Abyssal tempters, Orcus has to use an arcanaloth ("ravaasta" in 4e) mercenary to corrupt a temple of Sehanine, which isn't a terrible thing, though the lillitu from Fiendish Codex I would have worked the best, I think.

The Great Beyond: A Guide to the Multiverse by Planescape uberfan Todd "Shemeska the Marauder" Stewart is worth taking a look at, I think. Basically it presents the essence of the AD&D cosmology in somewhat remixed form for Paizo Publishing's Pathfinder RPG, but it's full of interesting plot hooks and storylines. Colin McComb, Monte Cook, and Wolfgang Baur are supposed to be creating adventures for this setting as well, though I think only Colin McComb is doing a "planar" one.

I think there's a delightful weirdness and creativity in the best of Planescape that's somewhat lacking in later planes-related sourcebooks and adventures, a willingness to twist standard D&D tropes until they've subverted the original intent and made something much stranger and more interesting. 3rd and 4th edition certainly have their share of weirdness, and creativity too, but there isn't a concerted effort to emphasize that; instead, it's scattered about, and it takes extra work to mine it and twist it until it gets really good.

And there's little philosophy, especially in the wake of the Faction War, since no one at WotC really knows how to make Sigil properly philosophical without the factions around. Well, that's not true; Robert J. Schwalb does, and did, in the Mercykiller article he wrote for the online Dragon Magazine.

Some of the things Monte Cook did for his Malhavoc Press line, especially Book of Eldritch Might III: The Nexus, Beyond Countless Doorways, Chaositech, and Requiem For a God did have the free creativity that I liked in his Planescape work.

My favorite parts of the Mimir are things like Mapping the Infinite and all the rumors and chant sections where people would come up with wild alternate takes and possibilities - I also loved the expansions to Uncaged: Faces of Sigil with fleshed out planar NPCs of every race and creed whose ambitions and schemes intertwined with one another. I loved the bent fractional factions, Barmy to the Spire, the fragments from the Codex of the Infinite Planes... and of course Brix's Guide to Sigil, the focuses on the planar paths and Negative Quasielemental Planes... lots of stuff.

Anyway, a rough timeline of some of the planar events in the last decade, all from official sourcebooks and the like:

Hashkar's reign 130: Illithids begin dimming suns across hundreds of worlds in an attempt to create an Overmind. In the month of Tithing this year, a plague called the Iron Shadow devastates several prominent planar communities. In the month of the Pivot, the lich Acererak attempts to become one with the Negative Energy Plane. In the month of Nihilum, a war erupts between Sigil's factions. Not a good year for sunshine and light. On the positive side, the goddess of Waukeen is also freed in the month of Tithing from her imprisonment by Graz'zt. In Sacriligion of this year, the plane-crossing ship Demonwing is stolen.

A contest between two secundi to become the new Primus ensues this year, with one executing slaadi in Limbo and the other slaughtering gnomes in Bytopia. The slaad-slayer wins, but the other disputes the verdict, departing to Acheron with millions of modron followers.

Lady's Edict 1: In Regula of this year, a githyanki knight declares herself Gith reincarnate. An entire Prime world is destroyed by something called the Apocalypse Stone and Moloch, exiled Lord of the Sixth, disappears in the month of Retributus of this year. In the month of the Pivot, the lich Vecna escapes from the Demiplane of Dread and temporarily sheds his divinity to enter Sigil; he causes a commotion by uttering the True Words.

Lady's Edict 2: In the month of Catechism, the goddess Kiaransalee flees Thanatos for the Demonweb as the formerly-dead god Orcus resurfaces.

Lady's Edict 3: In the month of Accordant, a presence invades the Positive Energy Plane and begins devouring unborn souls. In the Pivot of this year the Codex of the Infinite Planes is recovered from Kerleth's Tower in the Elemental Plane of Fire. In Nihilum of this year, the demon queen Lolth mysteriously stops answering the prayers of her faithful.

Lady's Edict 4: In the month of the Pivot the githyanki Lich-Queen Vlaakith is reported dead after an aborted invasion of the world of Pharagos, though officials from Tu'narath are quick to deny this.

Lady's Edict 5: In the month of Savorus, the existence of Eberron is confirmed by the Fraternity of Order. In the month of the Pivot, arguments rage in Mechanus as radical Doomguard scholars proclaim the extinction of the modrons.

Lady's Edict 6: Arguments rage over the age of the illithid empire as radical Doomguard scholars claim to have evidence it actually existed in the far future. In Tithing of this year, Lolth emerges from her silence as a greater goddess. In Decadre of this year, certain exiled factions vow to return to the City of Doors.

Lady's Edict 7: Regulus is penetrated, confirming the continued existence of modrons despite certain doomsayers' predictions. An unconventional conjurer manages to summon up a vestige of the being Tenebrous, confusing those who thought it had been resurrected as Orcus.

At some point this year, the Hag Countess of Malbolge expands disastrously due to a failed attempt at becoming a true power, transforming her body and her domain into an endless terrain made of her own living, pulsing organs. The duchess Glasya seizes control of the layer.

Lady's Edict 8: Several portals are mapped out in the World Serpent Inn, including to Oerth, pre-cataclysmic Krynn, Zakhara, Kara-Tur, and the Demiplane of Dread. More information on the current state of the modrons is revealed. A diamond mine of unusual richness is discovered in the Elemental Plane of Earth, prompting a diplomatic confrontation between the modrons, mercanes, yugoloths, and others on the demiplane of Gloaming.

In Narciss of this year, a plot of Graz'zt's to weaken Lolth or unite the Abyss is advanced. Drow attacks increase on a dozen worlds, and an unusual meeting takes place on the Demonweb.

Lady's Edict 9: The King of the Ghouls, Doresain, shifts his allegiance from Yeenoghu to Orcus. His Abyssal layer, the White Kingdom, comes under Orcus's control.

The Blood War is rumored to have come to a temporary halt.

Lady's Edict 10: A plot to destroy all the major trade portals leading to Sigil is thwarted by agents of the Planar Trade Consortium. A plot by Orcus to smuggle the dismembered corpse of a primordial through Sigil to the Abyssal layer of the King of the Ghouls is uncovered. First known mention of the dragon-led organization known as the Guardian of the Gates. Remnants of the Xaositect faction unite with an inner planar sect to form a new faction dedicated to Chaos and the elements.

It was just after Tenebrous stopped posing as Primus. The modron hierarchy had to choose a new Primus from the secundi, which normally happens automatically, but because one of them had become tainted by Tenebrous, it cited ancient precedent and had a contest declared, which one of the untainted secundi won. The tainted one retreated to Acheron with the modrons in its quarter of the hierarchy - the revolt you mention. That's all from Ken Lipka's modron article in Dragon Magazine.

Allow a little wiggle room in the dates listed above. If you were really going to do "one year for every real year" then I skipped 1999, when I think A Paladin in Hell was the only planar adventure, and everything following that should be a year later. If you tie it to the advancement of the Greyhawk timeline instead, which is what I normally do, then you have to lump 1998-2001 together as a single in-game year. I'd normally compromise and have 1998 be one year (130 in Hashkar's reign) and 1999-2001 be the first year of the Lady's Edict calendar following the Faction War.

I love this! What a great way to come back.

Thanks for the cool stuff you made before you departed. Another thing you have missed is people like me being told that your website was really cool, but wasn't working properly. I think I've had someone point me at your site at least two or three times a year.

So, now you are back, what is to happen with Mirmir.net? Is it going to be fixed up (with any files you have lost being replaced from a saved copy from Clueless) or are you going to help move it to an archive on Planewalker.com? Which is easiest for you?

BTW: If you do decide to move Mimir.net to Planewalker.com, is there any way that either you or Cluesless can keep the domain going (perhaps as a redirect). I'm getting fed up with seeing darn good D&D fansites being turned into fake search engines by spamming cybersquaters. They grabbed most of the Living Greyhawk fansites and a lot of other great sites.

That is great news. If you are happy to keep the site going, then it probably would be better to fix it, instead of trying to recreate it on Planewalker.com. I was really sad when Spelljammer lost its iconic second site (Shattered Fractine). Beyond the Moons rescued it and archived it, but I think that a bit of friendly rivalry can be good for fans.

That sucks. I hope you can rescue most of it, from another machine.

I think that Clueless was talking about a backup, so maybe you can get that and see if anything is missing.

I've looked at websites and had to reverse engineer my own work.

Generally, I would say that framesets are out and accessibility is in. If you have the accessibility working, you will get better indexing from the search engines.

Domination by Internet Explorer is another thing that is out. There are a lot more browsers out there that are grabbing a big section of the market share. And stricter standards, like XHTML are no longer being held back by Microsoft (who for some reason have always pushed web designers into doing things that break the international standards and obey MS ones). So doing things like putting non-table content into tables gets people wagging their metaphorical fingers at you.

Another thing that is in are the social engineering websites (oops, I mean social networking websites like Facebook). If you go onto Facebook you will see that Planewalker.com has an official page that people can sign up to to let the world know they like it.

Plus, do check out Google Toolbar. Toolbars have been around for a while, but this one allows you to create a button to search The Mimir. If you create a button and load the code onto your own website, you can then submit a link to that code to Google Toolbar Button Gallery and (because the URL matches) Google will list it as an 'official button'. People can then grab the code and have the ability to search The Mimir with one click.

Someone out there set out to rescue the entire database of Geocities. They had about six servers crawling randomly around the data, trying to get it all and worked up to the very last moment (when 404 errors replaced the last pages that were taken down). They have been putting the data up on a new archive website called Reocities.

I've tried hacking your URLs from above (i.e. changing the 'g' to an 'r') but couldn't get that to work. But if you know your actualy long-hand address, that might work.

By the way, the Reocities team want to get every page working, so please contact them via their 'Page not (yet!) found...' page and pass on your contact details. The page comes up when you type in a dead link.

I think that Internet Archive have also been trying to grab the content and are sharing data with Reocities. And they certainly have been loading data into their Wayback Machine for longer.

Taking a random dead link from earlier in this thread http://www.geocities.com/mimir.geo/gallery/index.html at the Wayback Machine seems to have something. I'm not sure how good it will be. They tend not to cope with images very well. And if you do any tricks with fancy scripts it might not have been indexed by the search engine bots that passed their data onto Internet Archive. Obviously, you will need to do a lot of copy and paste work to see what you can recover and what you can't.

Planewalker.com is currently in the process of being upgraded. Maybe you could help Clueless with some advice.

As well as Pathfinder RPG (which is seen as an alternative upgrade to 3.5), there are a ton of retro-clones (that emulate older editions of D&D) and any number of people might want access to your stuff. Castles & Crusades (a simplified clone of D&D) seems pretty big at the moment. It has even got commercial support from a D&D campaign setting (Wilderlands of High Adventure)!

Good luck!

I think I have everything that was on the Mimir Geocities site, too. I saved it all on my hard drive a while back.

Aha...never underestimate the power of a glass of wine and an extremely basic grasp of UNIX... I have managed to fix the perl errors on the main page of the Mimir. I'm far more pleased about this than I probably should be and I'm chalking that one up to the wine, which is very good. Take that, Xaositects...

One file down, 4282 to go... I kid you not, I just got the computer to count!

Hi Mike
No, the stuff I could automate was taken care of with server side includes when I created the site (that's the cause of all the shtml pages). What I did yesterday was entirely manual - checking all the links and fixing or removing the broken ones - part of the site was broken as I'd split mimir.net in two back in the 90s as I was regularly exceeding the bandwidth I was allowed - years later when traffic died down I recombined them to save money but lazily didn't fix the links...

I still need a decent HTML editor though - even the simple notepad app I have renders the HTML rather than giving the raw source - gah, programs are too clever for their own good these days! I'll do some more hunting (I need a Mac program)

Cheers
Jon

That sounds awesome. How is it going?

It would be ok from my point of view - but I'm not sure Jon's opinion on it.

This is GREAT! Thanks for putting this together!

I wonder how Eberron fits into the great wheel? Or is it a permanent odd-duck like the Dark Sun setting?

Is this from the Demonweb pits module from a few years back? So the Spider-Queen got promoted finally, eh? Does that change her domains and portfolios any?

Which Krynnish Cataclysm are you referring to? As a DL fan, I can tell you they've had about three or so in their history. As for Ravenloft, if someone can travel their via portal, can they get back the same way? Or am I confused about how the entrapment effects of the demi-plane work?

Gotcha. Although that is considered THE cataclysm of the setting, it is actually the second cataclysim of Krynn:
1) The failed epic spell three sorcerers cast to end one of the Dragon Wars (either first or second, I can't remember which). that created a massive magestorm the wracked the planet for years. It contributed to the bad rep arcanists have in DL society and helped start the Wizards of High Sorcery.
2) The one you're referring to, the big one that had the gods smash a fiery mountain into the continent to stop an out-of-control Kingpriest.
3) The breaking of the Greygem which released the uber-diety Chaos. Lot's of stuff happened, yadda yadda yadda.

There is some debate as to whether the first one counts as a captial "C" cataclysm, but for me it does, so yeah.

Thanks for answering my questions!

Not to move the discussion completely off-base, but I have a question for Ripvanwormer. Rip, you mentioned that in Lady's Edict 8 a portal to pre-cataclysmic Krynn was found in Sigil. This interests me not so much because it's a portal to Krynn but because the portal leads back in time! (Presumably, normal Sigil portals would take you to modern-day Krynn, i.e. current with the lastest books.) What article mentioned this portal? Could other such portals exist, leading to the pasts (or futures) of other worlds? It might be amusing for a Prime to visit Sigil, then try to leave and choose a portal that took him to the right world but the wrong time period! (Oops...)

Also, is it possible that Sigil actually exists outside of time, and that any apparent corospondence with time on other worlds (i.e. Toril) is merely an illusion?

Oops, the portal was in the World Serpent Inn, not sigil... that's what I get for reading too fast!