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Magic/Psionics issues

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Fri, 2004-06-11 16:13
#1
YokoburiKinura
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Magic/Psionics issues

Yay, my first post, let's get straight to business.

OK, I know that the closer you are to the Spire, the more your magic powers are suppressed until, when you're standing at the base of the Spire itself, even the magic of deities is completely useless.

Does this apply only to magic? Are psionics also suppressed in the center of the Outlands? The fact that psionics were mentioned as being suppressed inside Ilsensine's realm made me wonder if these two forces are handled separately in Planescape.

My second question is, are Blink effects prohibited in the Cage? I mean, if it was redefined to not use the Ethereal plane, and was just an 'out of phase 50% of the time' effect, would it be workable in Sigil?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

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Fri, 2004-06-11 20:44
#2
Nordom the Rogu...
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Magic/Psionics issues

Well, in 2e, ALL psionics were stopped at one of the rings in the Outlands- can't remember which one, and I don't have the book in front of me at the moment. If you're running a 3.x campaign, I'd just substitute power level for spell level when determining what can and can't be used depending on which ring you're standing on, seeing as how psionics has been reworked to fit more seamlessly with magic. Now, as far as the Blink spell goes, I say that's the DM's personal call. Me, I just allow all spells to work in Sigil because that's the way the city is. Why? Well, you can argue that the dimensional fabric between the planes is very weak in Sigil because it DOES contain portals to every plane in the multiverse. However, if you want to get technical and not allow ethereal plane spells to work because Sigil is technically in the Outlands, which is an outer plane, that's fine too.

Sat, 2004-06-12 13:09
(Reply to #2) #3
YokoburiKinura
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Magic/Psionics issues

Thanks for the thoughts.

Hmm... I'll have to look a little more carefully at the ring explanation again, I guess. But you're right, I think, that since psionics are pretty close to spell-like abilities, I'll just have to judge their equivalent power as for judging what ring stops what powers. I'm using a skill-and-feat system (Green Ronin's Psychic's Handbook), so the adjudication'll have to be a little more on the fly.

Did a little more reading yesterday, and found out that in the PS3E rtf's and the Sigil and Beyond book, there's nothing stopping teleportation that stays in the Cage; so if I look at Blink as being akin to that, then there really is no problem.

Sun, 2004-06-13 08:58
(Reply to #3) #4
Clueless
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Re: Magic/Psionics issues

"YokoburiKinura" wrote:
My second question is, are Blink effects prohibited in the Cage? I mean, if it was redefined to not use the Ethereal plane, and was just an 'out of phase 50% of the time' effect, would it be workable in Sigil?

Actually - I *believe* the latest Sigil guid (chapter 6 on www.planewalker.com) actually addressed this... in fact....

*turns around and asks the author of that chapter*

"... there's no ethereal connection, so if you went by strict 3, 3.5 rules no spells that use that sort of connection would work. On the other hand, Sigil is wierd. Because it has links to the Deep Ethereal in the form of the Lady's mazes. Which isn't supposed to happen... but it does."

Yeah. MY DM's up for the weekend of course. Eye-wink

I'd say that boils down to a "No it shouldn't. But Lady's whim - it might. Try it and see." If it specifically was reworked not to use the Ethereal - just becomign somethign of an insubstantability spell - then I see no reason why it wouldn't work.

Sun, 2004-06-13 11:13
(Reply to #4) #5
Kaelyn
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Re: Magic/Psionics issues

There's an optional 2nd edition system for psionics effects in the Outlands on the Mimir.

Teleportation definitely works within the Cage, which is why the Harmonium is equipped with planar mancatchers to deal with that problem.

Jason Ng wrote an interesting speculative article on the Planescape mailing list suggesting that Sigil has its own private Ethereal Plane, as well as other coexistant realms.

Sun, 2004-06-13 13:59
(Reply to #5) #6
Samloyal23
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Magic/Psionics issues

You could also use a special spell key to allow an ethereal based spell to employ the Astral or some other transitive plane instead. That could be a dark of the planes most primes just haven't twigged to yet...

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Sun, 2004-06-13 17:23
(Reply to #6) #7
YokoburiKinura
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Magic/Psionics issues

Thanks for all the suggestions so far. I think the insubstantiability explanation could work well. As for spell keys, I'll definitely want to keep that in mind if a wizard looks into it. I've got a psychic/rogue character who's looking into it, and that's why I have to find a believable way to juggle it. I'm thinking that perhaps planar psychics might develop a different version to what prime psychics would, and then, vice-versa, when a planar psychic is on the Material Plane, he might then face new difficulties since he doesn't know the Ethereal version.

I took a look at the Outlands Psionics article on Mimir, and yeah, it's very firmly grounded in 2E. I'm thinking that, if I were using the 3E core psionics book, I'd rule that each ring lowers the metapsionic cap, the number of points that can be spent on any given power, until at the Spire that goes to 0. The system I'm using deals nonlethal damage for each power used (like Star Wars Force doing Vitality Damage), and perhaps what I'll want to do is make it so that the highest Strain a person can take at a time goes down. Or something like that.

Mon, 2004-06-14 00:26
(Reply to #7) #8
Bob the Efreet
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Magic/Psionics issues

"YokoburiKinura" wrote:
I'm thinking that perhaps planar psychics might develop a different version to what prime psychics would, and then, vice-versa, when a planar psychic is on the Material Plane, he might then face new difficulties since he doesn't know the Ethereal version.

If it uses the Astral (not saying it does, but it felt like the logical parallel), then being on the prime wouldn't be a problem. The Inner planes, on the other hand...

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Mon, 2004-06-14 17:11
(Reply to #8) #9
Baernoloth
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Magic/Psionics issues

That poem about Bob is positively -disturbing-.

Tue, 2004-06-15 04:02
(Reply to #9) #10
Incenjucar
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Magic/Psionics issues

True, but the efreet taxi driver in "American Gods" will make your eye twitch unless you've been in the club scene -way- too much.

In regards to psionics: treat as spells.

In regards to etheral: I say you can draw anything from anywhere to Sigil so long as the Lady lets you, but -getting- there (Ethereal Jaunt, etc) isn't an option.

Tue, 2004-06-15 13:08
(Reply to #10) #11
YokoburiKinura
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Magic/Psionics issues

"Incenjucar" wrote:
In regards to psionics: treat as spells.

Well, yeah, I could just limit them by level. Problem is those pesky metapsi feats are defined by point expenditure. But if we can equate them straight across to an equivalent metamagic feat, it straightens itself out.

But this GR Psychic stuff is whole different yugoloth Evil but I'm sure something will work out. :twisted:

Tue, 2004-06-15 15:06
(Reply to #11) #12
Shemeska the Ma...
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Magic/Psionics issues

As far as the Outlands go, there was IIRC in the 3e Manual of the Planes a diagram of what spells were restricted and hindered at which circle around the spire. Psionics were addressed in that at the 2nd ring in (800 miles from the spire), all psionic spell-like abilities were nullified.

Keep in mind that the MotP came out before the psionics book so it didn't take into account there being a seperate psionics ability, as opposed to magic and 'that wierd thing illithids have that we treat as spell-like abilities'.

I'd treat it exactly the same as magic, in terms of where it gets restricted and how it progresses as you travel closer to the spire.

And unlike what some of the dopes on the WotC *booming voice* EPIC*booming voice* boards say, EPIC spells won't work at the base of the spire.

Tue, 2004-06-15 21:31
(Reply to #12) #13
YokoburiKinura
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Magic/Psionics issues

"Shemeska the Marauder" wrote:
And unlike what some of the dopes on the WotC *booming voice* EPIC*booming voice* boards say, EPIC spells won't work at the base of the spire.

LOL! Actually, since 9th-level spells choke first, maybe EPIC spells shouldn't work in the Outlands at all...

Wed, 2004-06-16 04:30
(Reply to #13) #14
Incenjucar
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Magic/Psionics issues

A tad harder to adjucate with the current system in regards to the rings. The flavor of "9" is pretty major, but only so many players are going to care.

Suffice to say, though, that Epic doesn't get anywhere near the spire. There's no sane logic whatsoever that could hope to support it doing so.

As for psionics (or anything else) that's been upped in cost, yeah, treat it as the effective level. Anything beyond 9th, treat as 9th.

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