Magic in Planescape

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approachingwinter's picture
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Magic in Planescape

Currently staff on a Neverwinter Nights RP server that is based on a Roman-esque country run by Baatezu within the layer of Cania. Long long story, enough fiction behind it to fill several books, anyway that isn't the purpose of this post.

The issue the staff is currently arguing over comes down to how magic wll be handled on the server. It's much harder to have the mysterious "No one knows, it just is" that tends to surface more often than not in Planescape considering we have multiple DMs and many players with conflicting view points. So we require an ironbound staff ruling on how magic is handled, even if the PCs don't ever need to find out.

So the issue comes down to two major questions the staff is pondering even now as we speak in a staff meeting:

1) Is magic finite in Planescape, or is it infinite in amount. Can one continuously drain the magic from an area if such a thing were possible until one remained? Or would such an act continue on forever or until the object draining it reached it's full and exploded or similar.

2) Do deity, nature, and arcane magics come from different sources? And therefore are they of completely different spheres? Or does all magic regardless of type stem from the exact same place?

Those are the questions. If anyone can city Planescape books or passages that would be excellent and is really mostly what I'm looking for. Thank you for your time.

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Magic in Planescape

Re: #1 I'm not sure I understand the context of this question. Could you fill us in on that so we know exactly which set of logic rules to apply? What spells are you thinking of to drain magic?

Re: #2 - It's the standard difference between arcane and divine magic as in 3rd ed. Which is to say - not much. Deific/druidic spells come from the hands of gods or the belief in a faith creates it. Arcane magics come from using proper techniques within reality to cause changes (like physics in the real world helping you create working lightbulbs).

Planescape (traditional 2nd ed Planescape) has some oddities with divine magic on the outer planes based on how far away you are from where your god makes kip. Basically it cuts down your level based on how far away you are from the place. Context matters heavily for your caster for which Power they worship. Druidic magics treat the Outlands as their 'home'.

Arcane magics (traditional 2nd ed Planescape) require spell keys. Basically 'they don't work correctly unless you are carrying X item. This applies to specific spell schools.

Those rules are included as an option in our version of 3rd in the PSCS, but may otherwise be ignored. Personally - I wouldn't bother to apply this as it would require you to have effectively a lookup table for 'X god/spell = Y modifier'. You'd have to look it up for each option you include.

Your biggest thing to account for in Baator is that there is no Etherial plane connection. It doesn't work. It's just not *there*. So spells dependant on those connections just don't work. No etherial jaunt for example. This applies to all magics.

I don't have my books on hand so I'll see what I can find when I get to them.

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Magic in Planescape

Here's some changes relevent to magic on Caina:

    Certain spells that normally hurt or repel evil beings don't function on Baator (the 2E Planescape Campaign setting mentions Holy Word as an example). Baatezu and other bashers native to Baator can't be affected by Banishment or Dismissal or summoned using certain spells that require them to have the Extraplanar type, conversely, those who are not native to Baator (and therefore do have the Extraplanar type) can be Banished.
    According to traditional Planescape (Page 11 of the 2E PSCS), spells that require contact to the Ethereal plane (Blink, Ethereal Jaunt, etc) do not function on Baator (or any other Outer Plane) as it has no connection to the Ethereal. This was changed in the 3E Manual of the Planes, but that isn't really part of Planescape, so we purists just ignore it.
    The Manual of the Planes lists Baator as being mildly law aligned and mildly evil aligned, meaning Chaotic or Good characters suffer -2 on Charisma checks, and Chaotic Good characters suffer -4.

    Alright then, I'm sure there's other effects I've forgotten, but I'm going to have to wait for an expert (Rip) to fill in the rest.

    As for how magic in general functions on the Outer Planes, there is a firm division between Arcane and Divine (one comes from raw power, the other from belief), and to some extent a division between Druidic and Clerical magic (Clerics (usually) get their power from a diety and Druids get it more generally from nature). Also, as far as I know, the amount of raw magic in the Outer Planes is just as infinitely large as the planes themselves. Also, since belief shapes the planes, as long as you believe something will work, it probably will.

ripvanwormer's picture
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Magic in Planescape

'approachingwinter' wrote:
1) Is magic finite in Planescape, or is it infinite in amount. Can one continuously drain the magic from an area if such a thing were possible until one remained? Or would such an act continue on forever or until the object draining it reached it's full and exploded or similar.

Entire worlds have gone magic-dead before. The world of Mystara had a curse on it that was slowly draining it of magic (Principalities of Glantri, page 79), and Oerth is slowly being drained of magic by the god Tharizdun (Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, page 167). Toril went magic-dead when their ancient goddess of magic, Mystryl, died (Netheril: Empire of Magic, page 12).

So if the question is whether an area on a plane could be drained of magic, the answer is yes. Could an entire planar layer go magic-dead? I would say yes, but it would require changing the layer's planar trait. On a divinely morphic plane like Baator, only extremely powerful beings would be capable of it.

Quote:
2) Do deity, nature, and arcane magics come from different sources? And therefore are they of completely different spheres? Or does all magic regardless of type stem from the exact same place?

If magic is drained away, it affects all kinds of magic equally, whether divine or arcane. That includes druids. See the rules for the Spire (A Player's Primer to the Outlands, page 6; Sigil and Beyond, page 20; 3rd edition Manual of the Planes, page 147). See also the description of the dead magic trait (3rd edition Manual of the Planes, page 13; d20 SRD, 3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide 150).

Sorry, but it's not possible for just arcane magic to be drained, or just divine magic. If magic's gone, it affects everyone.

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Magic in Planescape

'ripvanwormer' wrote:
Sorry, but it's not possible for just arcane magic to be drained, or just divine magic. If magic's gone, it affects everyone.

Perchance, an extremely powerful entity or phenomenon (not talking your ordinary basher here) warded or hexed the conduit of certain magical traits--or, more probable, warped the planar trait to make the afore spell keys inert--wouldn't that render a certain type of magic inaccessible?

...Just tossing in the "improbable, not impossible" clause, especially seeing how Planescape totes the underlying maxim: "Belief shapes the planes" (which would include their disposition to magus [magic]).

ripvanwormer's picture
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Magic in Planescape

Good point: I shouldn't say it's impossible. It's certainly possible, but it doesn't happen in the standard situations.

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