Larvae (and the division thereof)

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Aghris's picture
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Larvae (and the division thereof)

Still getting a grip on the lower planes and their working, I re-read Faces of Evil and Hellbound again yesterday. One of the things mentioned in there is that demons (tanar'ri) can be 'born' in several different ways. One way is spontaneous birth from the Abyss itself, another is actual birth from a joining of a mommy and pappa tanar'ri. The last way was evolution from larvae.

It also mentions that there is a layer in the Abyss where all petitioners arrive as larvae, oozing from the ground in multitudes, and that a few greater demons (nalfeshnee I believe) judges them and decides their fates. only a few of them are fit for promotion to lesser demon status. 

What I don't understand is who keeps these demons in check? Since they are merely greater demons, what keeps a demon prince from barging in and setting kip over this soul well and get as much troops as he can? It would basically mean that lord will be all powerful in the Abyss. It would seem that this soul well is the most covetous piece of ground in the Abyss, and any demon prince will go out of his way to control it.

Is there some sort of overlord, who distributes the larvae evently among the lords? If so, this doesn't seem right with the tanar'ri way of life.

Although it would seem amusing to have the demon lords sprawl over this piece of infernal real estate, it would be to much of a crux in the campaign, and I don't think I want to put my focus on this background seed. But then I wouldn't know of a best way to distribute the raw material of new Blood War troops. Anyone have any suggestions?

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Layer is the Mountain of

Layer is the Mountain of Woe.Theres no overlord as far as we know. It is not likely. But here are a few reasons why the Lords could refrain from attacking the place.

-Location. It is if I remember correctly 400-somethingth layer of the plane. It is probably very hard to get to or get by from other layers.

-Power. Taking on a whole layer of the abyss is no small feat. Even if it were undefended, it would take time and effort to completely claim the place. Now theres a number of Nelfshnee in charge and they have the ability to promote larvae to greater forms of tanarri. Only the most powerful of the lords could pull such a trick.

-Politics. When I said most powerful, I mean one of the trio, Orcus, Grazzt or Demogorgon. And they are already locked in a power struggle. They would not expose their flank to each other in a drawn out conquest of another, distant layer. Others, like the Lolth, Baphomet or Yeenoghu might also qualify, but they would also be fended off by other Lords as well.

So it seems the Nelfashnee will have their way for a little while longer, and pity to those poor souls who get trapped in their pretense of law and order!

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I'm not conviced. Especially

I'm not conviced. Especially Graz'zt would be able to pull this off. He owns three layers already, he knows what it takes to conquer (and keep) an infinite layer. Especially when Orcus was out of the picture for years (what happened to his realm in this power vacuum by the way?).

You mention that the Nalfeshnee would be able to promote the larvae to higher status demons, but the text doesn't mention that. As I understand it, only the truely worthy of the larvae get promoted to dretches and sent off to some demon lord. The other larvae... food, or play material, or whatnot.

So, we have a layer with a seemingly unending supply of raw material, we have a few scenarios: let's assume that the local layer population has given up on trying to kill the three nalfeshnee at the Mountain, or they all got killed while trying. I do not believe than any existing demons would just be willing to let the well run flreely without trying to control it in some way. Option 1 gives us a severely decimated population, option two gives us no popoulation at all. Easy prey to conquer. 

Motivation-wise, I think every lord would want to control this layer. However, the prime contenders will be the most powerful ones, as you mentioned. I think Graz'zt and Demogorgon would be the most logical ones. Orcus is still too busy recuperating from this field trip to the Astral. Demogorgon would be most powerful to do this, but he mght lack the finesse and focus needed for it. Graz'zt on the other hand is calculating and focussed, has three layers and would be more than willing to give one or two up to gain this edge in the conflict. I mean, with unlimited tanar'ri under your command, all his foes would be trampled easily. 

For myself, I have already decided that some sort of overlord is necessary. It will provide the demon lord who can pay him the most with the souls it desires. Being the typical tanar'ri, it has no loyalty to any lord in particular, and having access to souls as much as he desires already, these payments need to be something that even the overlord cannot say no to. The Baliff character from Azune in another thread would be ideal for this. This Baliff will keep an impressive portion of the souls for himself, to use as protection from invasion. He keeps the numbers a close guarded secret, so to dissuade any potential invader before he begins. The character is enourmous. A massive, bloated blob of a tanar'ri (feeding on an unlimited supply of larvae is bad for your figure) it sits on top of the Mountain, overseeing his nalfeshnee and gorging himself on all the left-overs.

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Or maybe, just to say, the

Or maybe, just to say, the nalfeshnee keep an abomination imprisoned in the mountain, and they know how o free him.

The fear of the nalfeshnee freeing him for revenge could prevent the demon lords fro trying to conquer the mountain of woe. 

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Everyone wants control this

Everyone wants control this layer, but if any one lord were to conquer it, EVERYONE else would band against him to keep him from controlling it.  Thus, the domain's neutrality is maintained.

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Demogorgon is powerful, but

Demogorgon is powerful, but as I recall he also spends a tremendous amount of time in his own keep arguing with himself. Graz'zt potentially could, but I am not convinced that he would. Certainly, he controls three layers right now, but that does not mean he can take and hold a fourth. As mentioned, the Abyss holds tremendous politics. Furthermore, Graz'zt's layers are all not only directly in order, but so intermingling as to almost be one single layer instead of three separate layers.

It's been a considerably long time since I've read Faces of Evil, but consider this for distribution of larva. Suppose the night hags have discovered a way to get their grimy fingers into the larva trade on the Abyss. They certainly trade larvae in other areas and I do not doubt they'd love to get involved in Abyssal larvae, as well. Suppose one hag or a small coven of hags got ambitious and started manipulating the flow of larvae? It seems a very haggish thing to do and it would give them a foothold in the Abyss as well as a bit of leverage against the Princes and Lords.

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Interesting point CoA, I'll

Interesting point CoA, I'll give that a thought. The hags have indeed been under-represented in my campaigns, it might be a good idea to play them up.

 

By the way, I just stumbled on this while browsing: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060620a&page=2. It seems that Wizard had the same reservations as I did, and beefed up the part a bit. Still, I'm not happy with the way they portraied it. There are now 5 nalfeshnee judging the souls, and while I thought 3 demons working together was a bit of a stretch, having 5 chaotic evil fiends do the work seem even more unlikely to me. It just doesn't seem like something a tanar'ri would do. So I'm still ignoring this and go with my own idea, with one overly obese demon rulilng the layer. 

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It is important to remember

It is important to remember that there is a hierarchy in the Abyss. It is a difficult hierarchy to understand when put in the context of "chaos = complete and utter disorder" but the hierarchy exists. Each type of tanar'ri has a purpose in its existence. There is a role it plays in the grand scheme of things. Glabrezu and succubi are tempters, mariliths are tacticians, etc. There's also a serious game of power balance and politics in the Abyss. The nalfeshnee might work together because it serves their individual purposes better. Consider that they want to control this plane, but they know if they turn against each other, then they'll ALL lose. That could be unacceptable, so they work together to keep hold of their position.

It could also very well be that the other Abyssal lords are just fine with letting someone else handle this.

Moreover, there are a few things that seem bizarre, but still exist. For example, Red Shroud is a succubus who controls the city on the Plain of Infinite Portals that holds the gate to Plague-Mort. Why? How? Succubi aren't greater or true tanar'ri, and they're barely strong enough to stand up physically to most fiends, so how does she manage when most creatures on the Abyss could rip her apart?

That being said, it's shown that tanar'ri can cooperate. The Blood War, 'loth-driven as it may be, is the greatest example of this. When driven toward a common goal or purpose, the tanar'ri are capable of banding together. There is an understood order and system in the Abyss, even if the place is a den of destruction. It is not nearly as clear or structured as Baator's, but it exists nonetheless.

In the end, though, you as the DM are perfectly welcome to "reject reality and substitute your own," so to speak Eye-wink Merging the five nalfeshnee into one demon lord seems a perfectly reasonable idea. You might set it up so this demon lord is a puppet of the hags. If one hag can overthrow and become a Lord of the Nine, certainly another could exert control over a tanar'ri lord. Might be why he's so fat, too -- the hags are feeding him larvae (and whatever else) to make him complacent and sedentary while they really call the shots. You could even build a story arc around other Abyssal lords discovering the hag interlopers, and then get PCs caught up in the fallout as one of the lords tries to unseat the fat guy and chase the hags off. Alternatively you could do a very similar storyline by using a rilmani interloper instead of hags. Or a rilmani pretending to be a hag.

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First, I don't think all

First, I don't think all larvae end up in Woeful Escarond; just those that the minions of the nalfeshnee judges can capture. I'm sure there are lesser tanar'ri swarming all over the Plain of Infinite Portals, capturing larvae and bringing them to whatever master who employs them. The nalfeshnee Lords of Woe get a lot of them, in part because they're allied with the balors. The balors support the nalfeshnee power over larvae and in exchange the nalfeshnee give them a portion of the lesser demons they create to serve as troops in the Blood War.

Second, the nalfeshnee Lords of Woe are essentially of lord-power collectively. They don't act as one unit, of course; they have plenty of rivalries and squabbles and assassinations amongst themselves. But one thing they can agree on is keeping power over Woeful Escarond in nalfeshnee hands, so they have no problem putting together their collective power (and armies) to thwart any balors or Abyssal lords who might try to take it from them. Just as the lords of the Abyss would unite to repel a baatezu invasion, the nalfeshnee have enough racial identity and pride that they're not going to let an outsider take their power away. Individually, a Lord of Woe is no match for, say, Demogorgon, but all the Lords of Woe together are more than a match.

Jem
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The data on this from

The data on this from Fiendish Codex I itself adds the following information:

Petitioners can manifest as larvae or manes; they can arrive on numerous layers. Worshipers of a demon lord arrive in that lord's realm. Manes and larvae can spontaneously evolve into higher-ranking demons, although still usually of very low demonic rank overall, such as a quasit or dretch. It is demons engaged in the Blood War who herd larvae (manes are apparently past the stage where this is possible) to Woeful Escarand, Layer 400, where the Lords of Woe force them to become low-ranking demons for use in the Blood War.

Thus, the Lords of Woe are apparently maintaining their position because they provide a useful service -- rapid creation of useful troops from larvae. It may be that Woeful Escarand is, simply, a centralized quartermaster/conscription locale by agreement in the Blood War that some politically-minded nalfeshnee managed to wrangle (the supplement mentions that they do like to think they puppetmaster Abyssal politics). Whether the layer itself has any special properties that ease the promotion of demons, or the nalfeshness have some secret art which might be stolen that allows them to divert larvae in their direction, it's in all the demonic generals' interest to keep their supply and recruit lines undisturbed. Re-establishing their logistics chains for themselves would be a pain, expensive in time and resources.

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