Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

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Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

Especially if we create a LN god of natural order for the Mechanus issue, it could be cool to include an article on druids on the planes, especially tying in to Mechanus with druids who are also guvners. I made one up as an npc last week for my own game and, at least in my books, it's a pretty killer idea that I think might not occur to a lot of people.

Most gamers see mechanus as a cold, 'mechanical' place filled with constructs and artificial life, devoid of nature. And while it may not have the same kinds of nature as a prime world would, most of the planes don't. Planar druids don't need to be restricted to Arborea and The Beastlands. There can be druids on any plane, all of them contain features that are 'natural' to them.

What kind of crunch can we offer in an article like this? A new druid archetype for pathfinder Planar Druids that doesn't restrict the druid to prime ideas of natural? Planar 'animal' companions? New domain-like options for the Nature's Bond ability, similar to how Inquisitors got Inquisitions in UM?

New items, maybe?

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

First off, a planar druid should have a home plane and the powers they acquire should in some way reflect their home plane. Maybe opening up different sorts of shape shifting possibilities, animal companions or even swapping out powers for something that's themed for the plane in question. If you're wanting to sketch out the abilities of a planar druid, I'd suggest doing it one plane at a time. Since we're working on Mechanus stuff, we should strictly focus on developing a Mechanus druid rather than trying to develop a full-on planar druid. We could do it up in the style of Pathfinder's class archetypes.

I'd also say that a planar druid's alignment must match up in some way with their home plane. Mechanus - Lawful Neutral; Arcadia, Mt. Celestia and Bytopia - either lawful or good (Arcadia favoring lawful, and Bytopia favoring good); Elysium - Neutral Good. So forth and so on. An Outland's druid could have any neutral alignment.

Suggested changes for a Mechanus druid might be to drop natural animals for their companions and instead use gear spirits and moignos (living equations). Rather than going with animal forms for their wild shaping ability, make it constructs. Bonus language would be Modron, rather than Sylvan. I'd have to spend more time working out the specifics, but it would run more along those lines.

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

The abilities of a Druid in Pathfinder are:

- Spontaneously Casting: convert prepared spells into Summon Nature's Ally. SNA is a terribly primey spell, though, as it differs from Summon Monster primarily by 1) summoning nonplanar animals, and 2) losing Outsiders as options. Would a Planar Druid be better suited to SM than SNA?

- Bonus Languags: Add Sylvan to their list of bonus language options. I agree with Wickle, this choice should be replaced by a planar language.

- Nature Bond: Gain an animal companion or a cleric's domain. I don't believe reworking animal companions to be more planar is necessarily worthwhile, so we may wish to focus on options that are more similar to the cleric's domain.

- Nature Sense: A bonus to Knowledge (nature) and Survival; perhaps replace with Knowledge (planes) and survival.

- Wild Empathy: Make friends with animals. This one is one of the biggest hurdles, imo, because planar animals have the magical beast creature type, instead of animal; therefore, the ability should allow the druid to make friends with magical beasts. The ability normally allows the druid to make friends with magical beasts of 1 or 2 int with a stiff -4 penalty, but if magical beasts are the norm for this druid, should we perhaps reverse these? So magical beasts are treated normally, and 'animals' garner the -4?

- Woodland Stride: Allow the druid to move at full speed through underbrush. The ability is pleasantly ambiguous when it says 'any kind of underbrush,' so A+, Woodland Stride. Here's to you.

- Trackless Step: Druid no longer leaves a trail in natural surroundings. Doesn't specify primey types of natural surroundings, so doesn't need edits.

- Resist Nature's Lure: +4 bonus on saving throws against the spell-like and supernatural abilities of fey. This is one of the 'big ones' conversion-wise. It upsets me how situational this ability is, you could go a whole campaign without encountering fey and it would never come up, or you could fight nothing but fey and be a superstar all campaign long with that +4 to saves. I honestly don't even know what to do with it, given how situational it is; leave it as-is, assuming a player is equally likely to encounter fey in a planar game than a prime game? Or change it into something that would get more use, by giving the druid a bonus against outsiders instead of against fey?

- Wild Shape: Druid changes into animals, and later The other 'big one.' I'm tempted to let a planar druid wild shape into animals with the RELEVANT TEMPLATE (celestial/fiendish/axiomatic/anarchic (er, resolute/entropic in pathfinder)) for their associated plane, but how much power does that add onto the druid? Is it fair? Also, druid gains the ability to wild shape into elementals, so what if we let them change into exemplar races? LE druids hanging around Baator, changing into devils...? Thoughts?

- Venom Immunity: Immunity to poisons. We could, hypothetically, change this to something like what the Gatecrasher got in Manual of the Planes, a permanent Planar Adaption effect.

- A Thousand Faces: Alter self at will. It is for badasses.

- Timeless Body: The druid no longer ages. Also for badasses.

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

http://www.eroding.net/gc/class_tenderofworlds.php

Legends and Lairs planar druid from Portals and Planes. Its a pretty tough prestige class with some really relevant abilities that, for me at least, make the Druid a more integrated and logical part of Planescape.
I use it predominantly as a warden of portals on the Prime.

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

Hahaha. Oh man, I'm having my website linked at me, I feel so silly.

Tender of Worlds is the most badass Druid prestige class. I super love it, BUT I will also say -- and it's important -- that Tender of Worlds is more a prestige class for Planar druids that are still focused on the prime, than it is a prestige class for Druid Chillin On The Planes.

Also, unrelated but idk if you really want to refer to that copy of the Tender of Worlds info! It looks like it is the top google result (eek no!), but I don't remember how much we had to edit it for NWN-ification, or if I even reflected any of those edits on the ol' website. (ALSO, INCONSISTENT SKILLS FORMATTING, WHAT THE HECK.)

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

Wicke wrote:
Suggested changes for a Mechanus druid might be to drop natural animals for their companions and instead use gear spirits and moignos (living equations). Rather than going with animal forms for their wild shaping ability, make it constructs. Bonus language would be Modron, rather than Sylvan. I'd have to spend more time working out the specifics, but it would run more along those lines.

Wow, this evokes some really wild images and ideas. I'd take it a step further and say Mechanus specific druids might even, over time, elect to replace some of their imperfect fleshy body parts with clockwork grafts. Ok so maybe it sounds a bit too Terminator or Darth Vader, but if a druid of Mechanus believes the cold, mechanical precision of the plane is the most perfect representation of Nature, might he not seek to emulate that perfection, bodily?

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

Let me preface my comments: I'm going in assuming that a Planescape planar druid has one plane that they're calling home and being a guardian for. If you're going for a universal planar druid, that's a much different exercise and my comments aren't as well placed.

Anetra wrote:
The abilities of a Druid in Pathfinder are:

- Spontaneously Casting: convert prepared spells into Summon Nature's Ally. SNA is a terribly primey spell, though, as it differs from Summon Monster primarily by 1) summoning nonplanar animals, and 2) losing Outsiders as options. Would a Planar Druid be better suited to SM than SNA?

SM would make more sense than SNA.

Quote:
- Nature Bond: Gain an animal companion or a cleric's domain. I don't believe reworking animal companions to be more planar is necessarily worthwhile, so we may wish to focus on options that are more similar to the cleric's domain.

Oh, I don't know. The idea of a Mechanus druid running around with a moignos companion is really evocative of both the plane and of Planescape's otherworldliness. As such, it probably would be worthwhile to develop a few viable alternative companions. Switching the existing companions from being animal-type to being an aligned type could be a good stopgap measure however.

I do agree on developing a set of plane specific domains though.

Quote:
- Nature Sense: A bonus to Knowledge (nature) and Survival; perhaps replace with Knowledge (planes) and survival.

No problem with that. Makes sense.

Quote:
- Wild Empathy: Make friends with animals. This one is one of the biggest hurdles, imo, because planar animals have the magical beast creature type, instead of animal; therefore, the ability should allow the druid to make friends with magical beasts. The ability normally allows the druid to make friends with magical beasts of 1 or 2 int with a stiff -4 penalty, but if magical beasts are the norm for this druid, should we perhaps reverse these? So magical beasts are treated normally, and 'animals' garner the -4?

This feels like one of those abilities that helps to evoke the flavor of the druid class, so maybe instead, gain a bonus to aligned animal/magical animal types, with a penalty applying to non-aligned types. A Mechanus druid, for instance, would gain the bonus to axiomatic creatures, with penalties to good/evil/anarchistic types. Maybe no penalty or bonus to good/evil, with the full penalty (or more) applying to anarchistic. For a plane not in the cross, maybe have them pick one side or the other (corresponding with their druid's alignment choice).

The bookkeeping would be a pain in the butt though, so this one probably warrants further consideration.

Quote:
- Woodland Stride: Allow the druid to move at full speed through underbrush. The ability is pleasantly ambiguous when it says 'any kind of underbrush,' so A+, Woodland Stride. Here's to you.

- Trackless Step: Druid no longer leaves a trail in natural surroundings. Doesn't specify primey types of natural surroundings, so doesn't need edits.

I'd add in something about how the druid gains the ability only while in their home plane.

Quote:
- Resist Nature's Lure: +4 bonus on saving throws against the spell-like and supernatural abilities of fey. This is one of the 'big ones' conversion-wise. It upsets me how situational this ability is, you could go a whole campaign without encountering fey and it would never come up, or you could fight nothing but fey and be a superstar all campaign long with that +4 to saves. I honestly don't even know what to do with it, given how situational it is; leave it as-is, assuming a player is equally likely to encounter fey in a planar game than a prime game? Or change it into something that would get more use, by giving the druid a bonus against outsiders instead of against fey?

A flat bonus against all outsiders doesn't make sense, especially if there is a particular plane a druid calls home. Maybe have them gain the bonus against outsiders/exemplars from their home plane. It's what the original bonus is nominally for anyway: to protect themselves from the actions of a race they would be exposed to in the course of being a guardian of nature. For a NE druid operating on The Grey Wastes, +4 to saves against yugoloths would be pretty amazing.

If this were developed beyond a general idea, you could get specific powers associated with this, rather than a flat bonus to saves. Like maybe being able to calm the emotions of raging Ysgardians, grant temporary sanity to people from Pandemonium or the ability to force Carcerians to tell the truth. Like I said, flavor-wise the ability feels like a protective abilitiy for what a druid encounters, so being able to counteract the usual hazards associated with a given plane would be well placed.

Quote:
- Wild Shape: Druid changes into animals, and later The other 'big one.' I'm tempted to let a planar druid wild shape into animals with the RELEVANT TEMPLATE (celestial/fiendish/axiomatic/anarchic (er, resolute/entropic in pathfinder)) for their associated plane, but how much power does that add onto the druid? Is it fair? Also, druid gains the ability to wild shape into elementals, so what if we let them change into exemplar races? LE druids hanging around Baator, changing into devils...? Thoughts?

I'm ok with these changes.

Quote:
- Venom Immunity: Immunity to poisons. We could, hypothetically, change this to something like what the Gatecrasher got in Manual of the Planes, a permanent Planar Adaption effect.

Good change.

Quote:
- A Thousand Faces: Alter self at will. It is for badasses.

Awesome ability, but does it evoke that feeling of planarness? I think this one could be examined more.

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

Unless we are planning on making woodland stride and trackless step more powerful than they presently are, I don't especially see any need to restrict them to particular planes; yes, the druid is likely most comfortable on their home plane, but a prime druid doesn't receive those bonuses for only their marsh, or their mountain; they aren't even restricted to a 'favoured' terrain type, they get those abilities across the board, regardless of where they are.

The standard druid would get those bonuses on every plane, even.

I really like your idea for Resist Nature's Allure!

Regarding making an archetype for every plane, I don't actually see any reason for this; we seem to be in agreement about what would be suitable to modify about the druid, and those changes are fairly universal. A couple abilities would need to add some language about summoning creatures that are not of an opposing alignments, or turning into creatures of your same alignment.

Thus far nothing else is really being changed that much.

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

I think that maybe my ideas with regards to druids for specific planes fall outside of the scope of what could be covered in an article. Maybe I should start up a thread in the RPG discussion?

Beyond that, I think that we're in agreement, not much really needs to be changed beyond a few tweaks and pokes.

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

Getting back on this! WRT the idea of planar druids having moignos, imps, etc etc such creatures as companions, we could replace the animal companion option with a familiar, and give them Improved Familiar as a bonus feat.

In the Pathfinder book Ultimate Magic, there are a number of druid-only domains which provide familiars to druids (the Eagle, Frog, Monkey, and Serpent domains here). We could create plane-specific domains following a similar "formula"/power level to these domain options.

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

While this sounds like an awesome idea, I feel that something should be taken into consideration when creating druids with affinity for a specific plane. I feel that doing so might turn the character into an Aquaman, where the druid is awesome when he's, let's say, in the Grey Waste, but kind of underpowered everywhere else, while at the same time the fighter or the paladin or the wizard might be as equally powerful wherever they go.

This might lead to campaigns where you either have an underpowered character, or a good chunk of the campaign must take place in the Grey Waste so the druid would be able to do his thing.

This sort of thing wouldn't happen with a generalist "planar" druid, though then it loses some of it's flavor.

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

Yes the objective is to create a general Planar Druid and not an archetype for each plane. However, domains are and will always be somewhat specific things, but they have never made clerics too niche.

Also just btw there is a sorcerer bloodline in PF that makes your sorcerer Aquaman and it is p. awesome.

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

Here is a question that was of some background concern to me while I was writing Planestuck.

How is the druidic tradition kept coherent across the Planes?

It's one thing for wizards to cast similar spells across planes. The laws of magic are the laws of magic. Priests have the scriptures their plane-spanning gods provide, which dictate the wonders their god allows clergy to perform. But a given druid doesn't necessarily worship a god, and there are a multitude of ways to draw power from nature. Now, perhaps the druidic traditions need anchoring entities. Perhaps druidry has the unique claim of being the natural universal religion. But that's a lot to hang multi-universal coherence on.

Are the druidic orders sponsored by entities like Obad-Hai and the Archomentals? Were they begun in deep history by the rilmani? Are there high-level druids that coordinate the druid orders on various worlds, and spread the word to worlds where druidry is unknown? (A severe challenge to this role is that druids lack any planar travel spells in their spell list -- a missionary druid will either need planar travel items, an ally with planar travel abilities, or a very good working knowledge of elemental vortices and portals from worlds to the Astral.)

It strikes me that the various part-neutral exemplars are likely to find the philosophy and goals of aligned druids highly useful to their goals, and might even regard them as missionary outlets for their own worldviews. Thus, you might have, emerging out of the confusion of shamanism and incantations among primitive mortals, five related but separate druidic traditions that all touch on Nature and Balance in different ways, sponsored by modrons, guardinals, rilmani, night hags (they seem more fitting than yugoloths), and, well, no one really for chaos, which is perfectly in character for chaos. It might be a two-faceted project of the fey of both kinds, working slightly at odds with each other and the result ending up the way it always has, or perhaps it just arises naturally somehow in the space left over by the other four. I just can't really see the slaads picking up the slack here. (But a nasty twist could have the CN druid tradition secretly supported by Far Realm entities, as a long-term project to destabilize reality -- the "balance" of complete and total disruption.)

Night-hag-advised evil druid circles (or individuals) would have the great planar advantage of interplanar travel via nightmare for their high-level devotees, when the hags permitted. Lawful druid circles with modron permits and privileges might be able to access the Labyrinthine Portal regularly. The guardinal-advised good druids, of course, have very reliable and trustworthy allies. The true neutral druidic traditions that worship Obad-Hai or other TN gods probably have a good claim to being the original source material of druidry.

Just some thoughts on this question.

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

What an awesome question! There are definitely a lot of ways to handle this - the first that came to mind, for me, was the Tender of Worlds prestige class mentioned earlier in this thread. While it doesn't add planar travel spells to the Druid's spell list, it gives Plane Shift as a spell like ability at its 3rd level, and Gate at 10th. The class can be entered as early as the 6th level, so they would get Plane Shift at 8th character level, which is about right.

Speaking of Tender, I found Portals and Planes on scribd! http://www.scribd.com/doc/117790845/Legends-Lairs-Portals-and-Planes-OCR

Anyway, it's possible that Planar Arch-Druids with levels in Tender of World could travel from prime to prime, passing along the druidic traditions, or it's possible that druidism is just ... a natural thing that a plane conveys to its residents ?

Like, every plane has its own characteristics, and a druid is a person who is attune with the "natural world." The Druid we see in the books is a character attuned with a prime material world, but a character attuned with the Abyss would be attuning themselves to a very different set of characteristics. Ditto for other planes.

If it's something that a plane just is, and "Druidism" is more being aware of the plane you're on and what it's about than it is a set of actual rules and practices, that would be interesting.

Obv. also interesting to be influenced by planar travelling druids, to be influenced by exemplar races, to be manipulated by gods, etc etc. Many interesting possibilities for this. Should def. explore options in article.

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

Looking back earlier in the thread re: the Summon Nature's Ally ability, perhaps a planar druid could work out with her GM a substitute monster list based on the monsters available in her home plane. (To echo the flavor of 2e Planescape, the list could include the planes immediately bordering -- in the case of Mechanus, the Outlands, Arcadia and Acheron. Of course, any druid might find Outlands creatures useful in some situations.) The main recommendation I would give for writing up such a list is that the available monsters at a given level should have CR no greater than the highest CRs of the standard SNA spells of a given level, and the list should include no more options than normally available for SNA at each level. The "normal" SNA list is given because, of course, most druids live and work on the Prime.

We could give an example list for Mechanus. Options could include formians, drone modrons, the lower ranks of inevitables, pseudoelementals at appropriate levels (mechanics-wise, just elementals with the appropriate alignment trait), axiomatic creatures, and smaller monsters native to Mechanus such as moignos and gear spirits.

It might be worth special note, if we do, that summoning axiomatic creatures from lower-level lists can be surprisingly useful, given their linked minds, and it would be an interesting rumor that the modron hierarchy is somehow aware of summonings of modrons and even senses events through them, even though summoned creatures are only creations of spell energy.

(Purely personal: my wizard with Arcane Disciple and the Law domain never got the chance in-game to summon 1d4+1 celestial elephants. Some day. Some day.)

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

Now, keep in mind this is very, very rough, but is this the general look you guys have for a Mechanus druid, for example?

http://i.imgur.com/u8dW7uG.jpg

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

Oh em gee, I love him <33

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Not to be rude, but you seem to have quite lax criteria for artistic merit, don't you? Smiling I mean, it's just a sketch I drew for 5 minutes while I was bored out of my skull at work.

But since you like it, I am to assume something in the general tone of this would be acceptable for Issue 3? (Which reminds me - where is Issue 2 actually? i have the first one and I can't find the second one anywhere...)

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

I'll second Anetra. Sketch or not, I love the look of him. With some polish, I suspect that it would be wholly in line with the look and direction of a Mechanus druid.

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

Well, since the general sketch is so well received, here's something of a more finished sketch that I will clean up, ink and color.

http://i.imgur.com/8enPt0Y.jpg

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

Since you seem like you're soliciting comments, I'll say that I liked the pendant keys and gears sort of looking like holy symbols. And the drama-mask kneepads don't really scream "plane of order" to me. I could suspend disbelief enough to hear a good explanation for them, sure, but it's definitely not my first intuition.

I do like his general look. He's got a DiTerlizzi vibe, and the overall air is definitely druid-ish. (Druish?). And the monodrone companion is fun.

As for a background, this might be a fair amount of extra work, but what about a "Gearhenge"? Dolmens and menhirs made of Mechanus' gears, pulley belts and axles, some of them rotating against each other, in a big circle around him? This could even suggest an activity for him -- instead of just standing there, he could be arms raised, hailing the alignment of a big piston and socket in the upper distance that are apparently about to touch, like a druid on a Prime world hailing a solstice.

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

Jenx wrote:
Not to be rude, but you seem to have quite lax criteria for artistic merit, don't you? Smiling I mean, it's just a sketch I drew for 5 minutes while I was bored out of my skull at work.

It doesn't really matter how long you've spent on it; you spent enough time that your intentions with the piece came through, and if you did that in five literal minutes, then you work a lot faster than I do.

I like that he has a staff. I like that he has a modron companion. I like that he doesn't look like the image people typically conjure of a druid. At a glance, he kind of looks the way people imagine the atypical old man wizard, and I adore that, because your old man wizards generally come from either Gandalf (who hung out with eagles) or Merlin (who, arguably, could be seen as a druid instead).

I love that you gave him a wrench. It's something that, when we see it, we think of a mechanical tool, and mechanical machines, but for this druid, in his environment of Mechanus, a wrench is something that he uses to preserve and maintain 'nature.'

I like that it looks like he has a mechanical arm. I like his beard. I like his key necklaces. I like his robe. I like that his shoes are a little bit pointy. I really like that you gave him a hat.

In short: I love him. He made me happy when I looked at him.

Jenx wrote:
(Which reminds me - where is Issue 2 actually? i have the first one and I can't find the second one anywhere...)
You'll have to ask Sci about issue #2!

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

The faces are mostly for the DiTerlizzi feeling, I won't lie about that. I can easily change them kneepads to have a single gear on them, that could work. I do wanted to keep it, at least spiritually, to Tony's style, since to me that is a very important part of Planescape and what drew me into the setting. I could always draw him in another way, but I don't think that would feel as good. Also should I assume you didn't like the keys and gears and such? In the second version I gave him a proper tool belt, which I feel is something a druid of Mechanus might find useful to have around.

As for the more dynamic scene, are you thinking something along the lines of this?

http://i.imgur.com/gAcyidY.jpg

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

Correction, I did like the keys and gear patch! The idea of a key as a holy symbol makes a lot of semiotic sense to me. :^)

The new pose and active background are at least twice as cool. Stuff happening almost always makes for a better pic. Don't forget his modron buddy!

I'll do a sketch that tries to illustrate what I mean about "Stonehenge with gears" schematically, but (a) it'll take a few hours -- my art skills are much less than yours -- and (b) really, the new draft is a pretty good baseline and I don't want to force the whole thing in to my vision.

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

Bah, double post.

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

Gave "Gearhenge" an honest go with a paint program and, yeah, I wasn't up to the task. So don't worry about it. Go with the current draft, personally I'd be very pleased with something based on that.

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

Well I did, in fact. Here are several thumbnails of the set up, and one thing I noticed is that the monodrone makes things very cluttered in all except for the one on the lowest right. So in the end I think I'll go with that one.

http://i.imgur.com/3AhJ7uN.jpg

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

Awesome. Looking forward to it.

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

Lower right thumb would make a fab cover.

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

Okey, I really, really hate doing this, but...

I won't be able to do this in full color. I simply don't have the time and nerves these days for the amount of painting required to do this properly. (Also it wasn't going to be something amazing. I haven't really worked with paint that much to begin with, and I haven't painted in ages. It was going to be something like this, basically http://i.imgur.com/bUP1H0r.jpg)

So I have two suggestions:

1) I can do this only in black and white, sticking to the sort of stylization you've already seen. or
2) I can redo the same basic set up for the picture, but make it more cartoony and stylized like these http://31.media.tumblr.com/721b008ead67f76905ecbe9fb29887b5/tumblr_mqy14dNweC1ruut3lo1_1280.jpg, which will allow me to color it in Photoshop and I could do it in full color.

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

My number one response is that as the artist you should do what you think would look the best.

As for my personal preference, I'd think that a LN druid would probably prefer detail and a serious stylization to the opportunity to look cartoonish in color. ;^)

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

Definitely do what you think would look best.

I can also do the colouring, if that is something you'd like.

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

Ugh, was this a double post? Jeez.

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

Thank you for the suggestion (and double post), but I'll have to decline. Call it artistic integrity, call it being an egocentric snob, call it whatever you want, but I just don't feel okay drawing something and having someone else color it, unless this was the original plan for the piece all along. It just doesn't feel right.

As for "do what you think would look best" - I honestly hate this kind of response. It doesn't matter what I think feels best. I am not drawing this for my own sake, I am drawing it for the sake of someone else's article in the fanzine. This is why I posted in this thread and showed you guys sketches and stuff. I could have easily just not said a word, drawn a piece and submitted it as an option. So here's the deal - I'll do both and I'll give you the choice of which one you want to use. Since all of this is labor that will not gain me any money, I don't care if I draw one or thirty pictures (That limit is determined instead by my short interest span and my work schedule and whether or not there's a new Adventure Time episode released). As such I am fine with drawing two pictures and giving you the choice.

As for why this post is so needlessly verbose, I have been watching a guy on YouTube talk about high-concept ideas, so it affects me I guess. Enough rambling, I'll be back at some unspecified time in the future with some finished product.

Peace, I'm out!

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

For what it's worth, I like the less cartoony drawings. Since the artwork is going to be paired with a lot of other Mechanus-oriented material, the slightly more...I don't know, adult? feel to the less cartoony drawings meshes better with the overall subject matter. The druid character you've come up with is fantastic, despite any misgivings you might have about our ability to judge something that you just tossed out. Eye-wink I'd love to see a full color version (is that watercolor?), but I know all too well the constraints of time and energy.

Also, you're one a hell of an artist. I'd love to be able to capture the look and feel of a character with just a few pen-strokes like you're able to. My stuff is mostly delegated to scribbling on paper then picking stuff out of that.

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

Greetings, all!

I got inspired to make Theo, a 3.5 Druid/Planar Shepherd of Mechanus. He was born Theodore - a Human - but pre-game, Mechanus turned him into a prophet (and, mechanically, a metal-laden Warforged) named Prometheus.

Story-wise, Theo's father was a merchant. The two of them were passing through a forest one day when Theo's father, Ricolus, was killed and Theo was adopted by the local Druid circle. Theo grew up and was initiated into the Druids of Spring (for in this world there is a Druidic sect devoted to each of the 4 seasons), but sometime soon after his initiation, he became a prophet of Mechanus. The message Theo bore was that the Druids would soon lose their magical power source and would need to find a new one.

The Druidic circle leader (Linsel) became furious at this transformation, but mostly this news! Linsel saw such great potential in Theo to become the next leader, but such did not happen. Theo's promised marriage to Linsel's daughter was called off, and Theo was sorrowfully banned from the Druids of Spring.

Meanwhile, on the planes, Mechanus and Lammania (the plane of nature in Eberron) were going to be fused somehow. I didn't think up all the details.

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

So sorry for the double post. Half the time I can't load Planewalker at all, so I guess I'm a little bit impressed I managed to post anything at all, and not surprised it was posted twice.

There's no sense in you drawing two pictures if you don't have time to finish the picture you originally set out to do. Do the first, detailed drawing that you had planned, and don't worry about colouring it. This isn't really a concept that hinges on colour IMO. I guess it would be nice but it's hardly necessary, and I wasn't really expecting to get a colour image to begin with, so, from my perspective it's basically the same drawing as before.

It feels shitty telling someone what to do with their art when they're doing the work for free, which is why I (and possibly Jem idk) was trying to edge around it ? Blah blab blah.

Will actually start working on the archetype tonight at work.

Jem
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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

So I sat down and catalogued a bunch of CRs to see what my suggestion of an SNA list based on creatures available on Mechanus (plus Acheron and Arcadia, a la Planescape 2e; take out the achaierai, barghests, and blink dogs to avoid those two planes) might look like. Here's what I finished up with:

Summon Mechanus' Ally

1: Resolute Animal*; Formian worker**; Modron, monodrone; Planar native
2: Inevitable, Arbiter; Elemental, Small (any)***; Modron, duodrone
3: Blink dog; Formian warrior; Modron, tridrone
4: Barghest; Elemental, Medium (any); Modron, quadrone
5: Achaierai; Barghest, greater; Elemental, Large (any); Modron, pentadrone
6: Blink dog Taiji Devotee****; Elemental, Huge (any); Formian Taskmaster
7: Axiomite; Inevitable, Zelekhut; Elemental, Greater (any); Modron, decaton
8: Formian Myrmarch; Modron, nonaton
9: Inevitable, Kolyarut; Elemental, Elder (any); Modron, octon

* Resolute Animals and planar natives: A Mechanus-based druid can summon a Resolute version of any natural animal from the standard Summon Nature's Ally list available to a given level. See http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/resolute-cr-... for details on this template. A "planar native" is a living mortal humanoid or petitioner native to Mechanus, who often also have the resolute template. The result of this summoning is a base creature without class levels and only basic equipment, such as clothing. A GM may find it fun to permit higher levels of this spell to summon advanced planars and petitioners roughly matching the summoner's desire; a suggested guideline is 1 HD per level of the spell.

** Axiomites, formians and modrons require Bluff checks if a summoned creature is to properly emulate the telepathic presence necessary to convince other members of the race that a summoned version of a member of their race is real. Axiomites are a PFSRD creature. For modrons, see the Manual of the Planes web enhancement.

*** In 2nd edition Planescape, elementals summoned on Outer Planes were pseudo-elementals made up of the plane's own essence given the form of the desired element. Pseudo-elementals are like elementals in every way except that they have the alignment traits of the plane upon which they were summoned, and often personality traits reflective of that environment. (Mechanus pseudo-elementals would be literal-minded servants difficult to distract.) They are no brighter than other summoned elementals and are easily persuaded, but will not take acts blatantly in contravention of the plane's alignment. Inevitables likewise function better in pursuit of their normal goals; they may attempt to pervert orders if they see an opportunity to pursue their natural mission, and will in any case not do anything which directly contravenes that type of inevitable's normal purpose (such as a zelekhut aiding a fugitive's escape).

**** A blink dog with 4 levels of Monk and a monk's belt. The style requires selecting Stunning Fist and Combat Reflexes, and trains Wisdom for the 4th-level improvement. The monastery is almost certainly somewhere on Arcadia, but must be quite reclusive.

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

Well, since I do like giving people choice, I now present you with two slightly different versions of the same thing. I went and drew the black and white version, but I also decided to add some shading. Here are the two pictures, and use them as you see fit. (Should I send this art to someone specifically so we can make sure it gets in the zine or something?)

1. Black and White -> http://i.imgur.com/RVU7SfF.jpg
2. Black and White + Grey Shading -> http://i.imgur.com/YxSvESQ.jpg

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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

I really love the second picture...

Conceptually speaking though, would a monodrone companion actually be logistically viable upon Mechanus? Wouldn't this Druid have had to draw it away from the modron collective - thus making into a rogue, and himself an enemy of their intended order? I just can't see modron society willingly allowing a base modron to attain this much individuality...
Waltzing around Mechanus with a "freed" monodrone would seem to be a really dangerous lifestyle, prone to drawing a lot of unwanted attention to oneself that seems a little out of character for a Druid.

I am not trying to nitpick - just curious...

Jem
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Re: Issue 3 - Druids on the Planes

The 3e MotP supplement on modrons says they can be hired. The modron race wants to bring order to the planes; it just tends to focus a lot of resources on its home plane. A planar druid devoted to the well-being of Mechanus could probably convince the collective to lend it a drone ally to further that purpose; the straight SRD Improved Familiar feat allows a caster to obtain a formian worker as a familiar at level 7, and a monodrone would be very similar.

"Advancement" of this companion might even involve the old modron telepathically dumping memories to a higher drone caste and switching jobs with the new one!

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