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Intelligent Skellies?

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Sat, 2007-06-09 14:14
#1
JellyPooga
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Intelligent Skellies?

Given that there are plenty of places/planes that are inhabited by the Undead, is there any rules that anyone knows of for non-mindless Skeletons/Zombies? And I don't mean more powerful "I've got a paralysing touch/death vision/uber-strength/whatever" Skeletons/Zombies...just plain ol' Skally-wags and Shufflers, but they've grown a brain (metaphorically).

I'm aware of the Awaken Undead spell, but that's not really what I'm after...that's a spell for 'brain-ing up' your Undead minions so they can do more complex tasks...what I'm after is a 'Race' (so to speak) of Skellies/Zombies that have 'evolved' on one of the Undead 'homeworlds' somehow (don't ask me how, this is the Planes we're talking about...just about anything is possible...maybe there's a Plane/layer of the Abyss/whatever with a warped area of Negative Energy (near a portal to the NegEn Plane maybe?) which, if a corpse is left there, animates it and grants it sentience...I dunno, something like that maybe...).

I'm guessing there's not, but I thought I'd ask before brewing my own version of what I have in mind. Oh yeah, this is intended to be a PC playable race...just thought I'd point that out.

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Sat, 2007-06-09 16:24
#2
420
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Intelligent Skellies?

In Planescape: Torment there is a place located in Undersigil called the Dead Nations. It is inhabited by three intelligent kinds of undead, skeletons, zombies and ghouls.

-420

Sat, 2007-06-09 16:29
(Reply to #2) #3
Bagoly
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Intelligent Skellies?

There can be such a thing.

Immidate idea that springs to mind is a posessed skeleton, where the fiend does the thinking.
If that's not enough independent then take a look at the templates in Libris Mortis. Necropolitan, I think it was called. There are rules in there I believe to make this sort of undead.
Sticking to planescape I bet that there are intelligent skellies in Hopelorn on Krangath... After all, it IS one of the biggest mortuary cities around.

Sat, 2007-06-09 18:26
(Reply to #3) #4
Hymneth
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Intelligent Skellies?

Hmmm. I don't see why Skeleton as a player race would be that bad. Just make up a 1st level character of another race and apply the skeleton template with a few alterations. Let's look at what the template has and what will need to be changed:

Size and Type: Size stays the same, type changes to undead, gains undead qualities, loses alignment subtypes. If the skeleton is going to be intelligent, the last bit could be ignored. On a separate note, I'd say that the undead immunity to mind-affecting effects might be dropped for such an oddly intelligent and free-willed creature

HD: Changes to d12 That's only for racial HD, and the skelley won't really have any, so that doesn't affect the intelligent skelley HD from classes are dropped This would be ignored for the smart skelley

Speed: No change, but wings no longer work No change

AC: A natural AC bonus based on size +1 for small or +2 for medium, no change

Attacks/damage: Loses natural attacks that won't work without flesh, gains 2 claw attacks with low damage No change

SA: loses all base creature's SA Might change, but should probably stay as is

SQ: loses all base creature's SQ except those that improve melee or ranged attacks Probably no change Gains immunity to cold and DR 5/bludgeoning Keep the DR, maybe change the immunity to resist cold/10

Saves: Would only affect Racial HD, smart skelley has none

Abilities: Dex +2, Con --, Wis 10, Cha 1 Keep the Dex bonus and Lack of Con, no alteration to Wis, perhaps a -2 or -4 to Cha

Skills: None Skills as normal by class for the smart skelly

Feats: Loses all, gains Improved Init as bonus Keep feats, no bonus feat

Alignment: Always NE NE is hogwash. Negative energy is not Evil. Bad 3.5, bad! Any alignment, probably with a tendency towards neutrality

I like keeping it as a template so that it can be added to any normal PC race and all the PS standard races (well, except for rogue modron). Comparing this to the Rogue Modron it looks pretty comparable, so the LA for this might be around +2 or +3. That seems pretty hefty for just a skelley, but the undead immunities are pretty powerful.

I just hashed this out in a few minutes. Anyone have any suggestions as to the real LA or ways to make it more feasible?

Sat, 2007-06-09 20:04
(Reply to #4) #5
Iavas
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Intelligent Skellies?

Book of Vile Darkness (3e) has rules for intelligent skeleton and zombie characters. It's in the back somewhere, after the Kythons.

Sat, 2007-06-09 21:01
(Reply to #5) #6
Jem
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Intelligent Skellies?

Don't any undead automatically become free-willed if they enter the Negative Energy Plane? That'd work as a character origin, at any rate... mechanically, I've heard of intelligent undead templates but don't know of any offhand.

Sat, 2007-06-09 21:31
(Reply to #6) #7
Azriael
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Intelligent Skellies?

Quote:
Comparing this to the Rogue Modron it looks pretty comparable, so the LA for this might be around +2 or +3. That seems pretty hefty for just a skelley, but the undead immunities are pretty powerful.

I'd reduce that to about +1 given that the character can no longer gain bonus hit points (no Con) and because there's no immunity to mind affecting spells. The natural attacks aren't that good and will rarely be used and the Cha loss is tough on a number of classes (especially PrC's). The chance to be turned by anyone with cleric level's would be a pain in the butt too.

Archon could be a good location to draw undead characters from since a number of the more successful armies there are supposed to be comprised of undead or constructs. I've actually been hoping to play an Archonian swordwraith (FF) for a while now, especially if I could use the evolved undead template from LM. I imagine there's a few of these running around on Archon from all the battles there and they should make fairly good fighters (with the fast healing from the evolved undead template cancelling out the lack of Con).

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Alignment: Always NE NE is hogwash. Negative energy is not Evil. Bad 3.5, bad! Any alignment, probably with a tendency towards neutrality
Amen to that brother Laughing out loud

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Sat, 2007-06-09 22:23
(Reply to #7) #8
ripvanwormer
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Intelligent Skellies?

I'd use the necropolitans from Libris Mortis. They seem the most likely type of undead to populate a planet with an "ordinary" non-evil culture, where skeletons go to their jobs and then home to their skellington families.

Mon, 2007-06-11 03:13
(Reply to #8) #9
Squaff
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Intelligent Skellies?

I am fan of Ravenloft and there they mention two such communites: Il Aluk (aka Necropolis) a prosperous city in domain of Drakon that was slain in single negative energy burst. it is populated by all kinds of inteligent and free-willed undead including: most common skelletons and zombies (wich have over the years have gone insane and CE).

Second such community is town in domain of Tempest (or Keening, I have to refresh my memory) wich was slain in similar matter by wailing sandstorm created by Banshee darklord. Apperently cittyzens have rised as skelletons and have continued to un-live they ordinary un-lives as nothig happend, just don´t mention them they are dead or they are prone to go berserk.

So the theory is this: any livig being slain (by negative energy or similar dark magic) in such speed (so it does not know what hit him) can rise as inteligent and free-willed undead (skelletons and zombies would be most common).

Finaly, in book of oriental monsters ("Hungry Ghosts and Jade Dragons") there is type of undead that is created when mortal is killed so swiftly that it does not notice it died. Basicly it looks just as in life exept on its shadow is visible cause of death (missing head or arrow for example), and once per day creature goes to the place of death (and time) and stands there starig at empty space for few minutes, then it goes back to its everyday buisnes.

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Mon, 2007-06-11 19:52
(Reply to #9) #10
Rhys
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Intelligent Skellies?

Mythic Races by Sword and Sorcery (I think it's S&S) is a pretty cool book, full of new PC races. One of them, the Eleti, is a relatively low-LA race that's basically just intelligent undead skeletons. That's easily what you're looking for.

Tue, 2007-06-12 10:09
(Reply to #10) #11
Mask
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Intelligent Skellies?

Ravenloft also had the "Requiem"-Box, which contains rules for transferring 8 races (including kender!) into undead status and has 12 undead monsters as player classes.

These are AD&D-Rules, but there might be a conversion somewhere.

Tue, 2007-06-12 10:34
(Reply to #11) #12
Bagoly
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Intelligent Skellies?

Iavas, you'd be talking about the Bone Creature and Corpse Creature templates?
I always wondered why, but these are stronger then their counterparts in the MoM... They have all sorts of added perks like wings working again ect., that make me think of them more as a something for NPCs.
Then again, why not.

Tue, 2007-06-12 12:42
(Reply to #12) #13
Bob the Efreet
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Intelligent Skellies?

"mask" wrote:
Ravenloft also had the "Requiem"-Box, which contains rules for transferring 8 races (including kender!) into undead status and has 12 undead monsters as player classes.

These are AD&D-Rules, but there might be a conversion somewhere.

The Gazetteer that includes Necropolis (3rd ed. Ravenloft by S&S) updates those rules, as I understand.

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