When WOTC was about to release 3E, it produced two 2E adventures that were intended to bridge the gap and provide an in-game rationale for the changes. The Apocalype Stone and Die, Vecna, Die! explained why things weren't going to be the same anymore (i.e. Vecna screwing up the Multiverse, and the Lady fixing things, but not quite as before). Will WOTC write an adventure justifying (?!?) the MAJOR alterations to the Cosmos coming in 4E, or are we on our own?
In-Game explanation for the change-over, or not?
Wed, 2008-02-06 15:48
#1
In-Game explanation for the change-over, or not?
Wed, 2008-02-06 19:53
#3
In-Game explanation for the change-over, or not?
It seems to me that the adventures mentioned were written with 3e in mind, but 3e was not written with those adventures in mind.
Wed, 2008-02-06 23:20
#4
In-Game explanation for the change-over, or not?
That's a good way of putting it.
Fri, 2008-02-08 17:19
#5
my explanation...
For those who want it, here's my "in-game" explanation: Aoskar returns to life and enters Sigil, much in the way Vecna did. He and the Lady struggle for supremacy as the Great Wheel colapses around them. The Lady prevails and saves Sigil from destruction, but the rest of the multiverse is too far gone... However, between Her efforts and the efforts of a coalition of Powers (outside Sigil!), the multiverse is reformed into the 4E configuration... this occurs whenever the DM finally decides to switch over to the 4E rules! This is the dire event that the black dragon proxy of Chronespis forsaw long ago, and which drove him mad... (remember in Doors to the Unknown?) If you think Aoskar couldn't get into Sigil because the Lady strengthed the barriers after Vecna's visit... well, maybe Aoskar goes back in time and enters the city same time as Vecna! Or maybe his power over portals lets him do it, or some other secret he knows... I guess the Echaton was right; the Death of the Planes IS coming!!!
Fri, 2008-02-08 21:43
#6
In-Game explanation for the change-over, or not?
And it's name is Wizards of the Coast! 
Sun, 2008-02-10 15:31
#7
In-Game explanation for the change-over, or not?
For some reason, I doubt it's a coincidence that Elder Evils was released just in time for 4th Ed.
Sun, 2008-02-10 16:31
#8
In-Game explanation for the change-over, or not?
It's really quite simple; despite the assiduous efforts of the leShay in preventing the horrifying consequences of restoring their timeline, it has been done, and the consequences are the Fourth Edition.
Mon, 2008-02-11 17:12
#9
LeShay tampering...
Yep, some LeShay somewhere just couldn't resist the urge to go back and "fix" things... probably wiped out his/her race for GOOD this time! (maybe some 4th Edition players can mount a mission to change it back...?)
Mon, 2008-02-11 19:57
#10
In-Game explanation for the change-over, or not?
For some reason, I doubt it's a coincidence that Elder Evils was released just in time for 4th Ed.
You know, that's a good point. They release a book full of "campaign ending" scenarios. Then, since the campaign is over anyway, why not start your new one in 4th edition?
That's evil in a completely non-elder way
Wed, 2008-02-13 19:03
#11
AP news flash!
This just in... According to renouned mystical expect Doctor Strange, a mysterious disaster has befalled reality #1738, noted for the famed "City of Doors", Sigil. The Sorceror Supreme was visiting friends on the Outlands when the Plane began to disintegrate around him. "It was the most horrific thing I've ever seen," said Strange, who was lucky to Plane Shift to safety. "The whole structure of the Great Wheel suddenly colapsed without warning... there must be billions of dead." Divinations seem to indicate that Sigil has somehow survived this catastrophe, but as yet nobody has found a portal there. Dr Strange believes that a being of great power must be responsible for the destruction, and several suspects are being investigated, including Thanos of Titan, Lady Debonair, and Tharizdun. Thanos has denied any involvement in the matter, and stated that his sometime ally Adam Warlock was trying to contact the Living Tribunal for answers. The mortal Faction known as the Doomguard have also been accused of involvement, but the few individuals questioned so far seems to be as stunned and shocked as anyone else. It is believed that a new set of Planes are forming at the site, but few are willing to explore them until matter settle down.
Thu, 2008-02-14 09:19
#12
In-Game explanation for the change-over, or not?
The planes have collapsed. For reason that have left even the wisest sages horrified. At least they would be if they had the sense to BE horrified. No, it seems not only the planes but also, the very mental stability of every single sentient entity in whatever now remains of the multiverse is now deteriated its a wonder any history can be recorded at all. The vast majority of people are now completely and utterly rooted to the very ground they walk on. No one walks anywhere or even feels the need to. They are however full of all sorts of useless information that just sprung out of nowhere. Others hock good they pull out of their pockets now infinite leagues deep full of treaure hoards that'd make the former tiamats hoard look like a piggy bank! The entire Gnomish race has had their mental state reduced so badly that they now all, as a collective, activly seek out evil abode in which to reside. And finally a select few, managed to stave off as much of the mind degredation as they could. Which has them in a mental state which follow along these lines. They seek out horrid and wicked things i.e things that attack them, and in turn bash them in into bloody pulp with the skills and items at their disposal, they then converse, if you could call it that, with the said people to trade loot pillaged from said monsters to purchase bigger items that they can then use to beat bigger said monsters in to larger bloodier said pulps. The inhabitants of the multivers are doomed to endless repetitive cycles of killen' collecten' cashin' buyin' killin' collecten' cashin' buyin' and the gods yawn a loud yawn that is heard in the blowing of the breeze the chirping of the crickets and the flighted movements of the majestic tumble weed. Three simple objects that stand unabated in a shattered land and perhaps a single reminder of the rule of three, the last of what was.
Thu, 2008-02-14 09:49
#13
In-Game explanation for the change-over, or not?
The Merchant sect did it. They have prowed that even multiverse, gods and its laws have their price. What did they do?
They have finaly collected enough jink to buy entire multiverse and now as undisputed legal owners of multiverse they are changeing planes and its denizens as they see fit. Sigil is unchanged for now but it is only matter of time when they find Lady's Price.
And to think that people used to laugh at merchants and their philosophy...
Thu, 2008-02-14 10:04
#14
In-Game explanation for the change-over, or not?
I'm of the "who-cares" mindset. If I need the planes to change around, they'll be that way, but it'll be in such a way that they've always been that way.
Tue, 2008-02-19 14:55
#15
Another suspect
Darn, forgot to list the Anti-Monitor as a possible culprit...
Tue, 2008-02-19 15:34
#16
In-Game explanation for the change-over, or not?
Peculiarly, Anime Fan's explanation is pretty much what I'm using for the module "The Illuminated Eye" should Clueless approve the optional ending for Planescape 'Canon.'
Tue, 2008-02-19 20:04
#17
In-Game explanation for the change-over, or not?
We're not planning to update to the 4th ed cosmology. *confused look* Were you planning to use Illuminated as another form of DieVecnaDie to 'update' the cosmology? As an optional thing I guess it could go in there - but optional at best really.
Tue, 2008-02-19 20:25
#18
In-Game explanation for the change-over, or not?
We're not planning to update to the 4th ed cosmology. *confused look* Were you planning to use Illuminated as another form of DieVecnaDie to 'update' the cosmology? As an optional thing I guess it could go in there - but optional at best really.
Yes, hence the huge "Optional" ending and saying canonically it doesn't happen. Did you not read it?
But yes, I think it'd be nice to include a description for 4E interested players.
Plus, it makes a nice book end for the "Trilogy of Modules" planned.
Tue, 2008-02-19 20:37
#19
In-Game explanation for the change-over, or not?
I hadn't gotten to it yet. (Stupid 24hr day, not enough hours!) 
But yeah, sounds like a plan and I'll be able over the next couple of days to catch up on the threads you've posted up on it so far.
Wed, 2008-02-20 23:15
#20
In-Game explanation for the change-over, or not?
Well, it seems obvious to me that they had a giant and omnipresent "Nothing" descend upon the Planes and devour huge chunks before being ultimately defeated.
Not that I'm giving anything away.
But should I sue WotC?
Incidentally, AnimeFan, your idea sounds disturbingly similar to something else as well! (I'm just a little excited, as I'm almost to Episode 100: The One Where I Reveal (almost) Everything!)
__________________
Thu, 2008-02-21 08:29
#21
In-Game explanation for the change-over, or not?
Plus, it makes a nice book end for the "Trilogy of Modules" planned.
What is the "Trilogy of Modules" planned?
Is the Faction war's sequel?
Thu, 2008-02-21 19:07
#22
In-Game explanation for the change-over, or not?
Plus, it makes a nice book end for the "Trilogy of Modules" planned.
What is the "Trilogy of Modules" planned?
Is the Faction war's sequel?Well, it's just a fun little point there's originally intended 3 modules that Faction War started. And we've got two in development.
But nothing really prevents folk from doing up their own.
Thu, 2008-02-21 18:29
#23
In-Game explanation for the change-over, or not?
There was a "Trilogy of Modules" planned?
We were going to follow the Rule of Three and Unity of Rings in terms of resolving the story-arc of the factions in-out-in of Sigil - but we hadn't pinned down anythign to a specific set of or number of modules. It took the entire product line to get around to Faction War - I see no reason to terribly shortsheet ourselves for our work post-Faction War. This module (as well as Mirrors), from what I understand, expands upon post Faction War situations but is not intended as the end-all-be-all-there-are-no-more follow up to the module.
Thu, 2008-02-21 19:24
#24
In-Game explanation for the change-over, or not?
There was a "Trilogy of Modules" planned?
We were going to follow the Rule of Three and Unity of Rings in terms of resolving the story-arc of the factions in-out-in of Sigil - but we hadn't pinned down anythign to a specific set of or number of modules. It took the entire product line to get around to Faction War - I see no reason to terribly shortsheet ourselves for our work post-Faction War. This module (as well as Mirrors), from what I understand, expands upon post Faction War situations but is not intended as the end-all-be-all-there-are-no-more follow up to the module.
I think this module will be great to expand the post-faction war situation (as well as Mirrors) but maybe the faction war' sequel trilogy requires a full involvement of all the factions.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Thu, 2008-02-21 19:32
#25
In-Game explanation for the change-over, or not?
That was my feeling as well - though really I view the story-arc as sets of modules, not single ones. So we have plenty of room to develop post-Faction War Sigil, and the non-Faction aspects of the city while we build up to another climax module like Faction War was.
Thu, 2008-02-21 21:52
#26
In-Game explanation for the change-over, or not?
That was my feeling as well - though really I view the story-arc as sets of modules, not single ones. So we have plenty of room to develop post-Faction War Sigil, and the non-Faction aspects of the city while we build up to another climax module like Faction War was.
Eh, I don't think there's going to be a need for such a cataclysm.
You can have "mega-module sequels" without them being end of the Multiverse style issues.
Fri, 2008-02-22 07:48
#27
In-Game explanation for the change-over, or not?
Eh, I don't think there's going to be a need for such a cataclysm.
You can have "mega-module sequels" without them being end of the Multiverse style issues.
Are not the resurrection of Aoskar and the optional ending with the new 4e cosmology a cataclysm?
Fri, 2008-02-22 11:45
#28
In-Game explanation for the change-over, or not?
Eh, I don't think there's going to be a need for such a cataclysm.
You can have "mega-module sequels" without them being end of the Multiverse style issues.
Are not the resurrection of Aoskar and the optional ending with the new 4e cosmology a cataclysm?
True, I'm just playing the Yugoloth here.
Wed, 2008-02-27 19:34
#29
Alternate universe
Maybe 4E can be treated as an alternate universe where Vecna was banished from Sigil too late and the Planar structure fell apart, then reformed... the Lady saved Sigil from dissolution, but couldn't prevent the colapse of the Great Wheel. In short, in this alternate universe, 4E comes after 2E, and 3E never happened... meanwhile, in the universe next door, 3E did happen and 4E never occurs! (This is the universe for those of you who never switch to 4E; in this reality, 4E just plain never happens...)
Thu, 2008-03-13 13:57
#30
In-Game explanation for the change-over, or not?
I'm currently running a v.3.5 game in which none of the "metaplot" PS stuff has happened (Modron March/Dead Gods, Faction War, etc.), so I can just have Vecna crash the Cage and scramble everything to the 4E cosmology at the end of the campaign, or have the impending disaster I've already got planned be an avoidable one...
It's really gonna depend on what my players want to do.
Thu, 2008-03-13 20:57
#31
In-Game explanation for the change-over, or not?
I was planning a NWN2 module that dealt with some of this, unfortunatly it turns out I do not have enough time to finish it off (these modules take ages to make, and I have other commitments).
The basic plot was that a Rimalli outcast (Balance of One) found a way to assend to god-hood by gathering artifacts from powers of each of the nine prime alignments, and then combining them at the spire.
The PC was drawn into the plot via being one of the Rimalli's pawns, and eventually linking up with others to stop Balance of One. The final act was to take place at the spire, with the PC leading a rag-tag band of outsiders and missfits to stop the Rimalli Outcast, with Centre of All making an apperance on the PC's side.
However the process was not entirely stopped, the spire heaved as the universe was brought into alignment with the new configuration.
Who knows, one day I might get time to build it propelly.
Lorft
Well, there's the Spellplague in FR, and I suppose you could blame something or other on the Big Bads in Elder Evils. But really, no, there isn't a formal explanation. Things are as they always have been, and the 3rd edition cosmology is not assumed to be the "past" of the 4th edition cosmology except in the Realms campaign. It will be assumed that the Abyss was always part of the Elemental Chaos, for example.
I wouldn't count on anybody here writing such an adventure, unless you want to do it.
Of course, there wasn't really an in-game explanation for the 2e-3e changeover, either. It was never said in any product that Vecna caused the Paraelemental Planes to merge with the Elemental Planes, for example - it's assumed that it's always been that way.