IMPORTANT DISCUSSION: What drives the Hordlings?

I imagine the rabid hopelessness of horedlings to be akin to that of the Doomguard. While both the Bleakers and the Doomguard share the idea that life is pointless because its all going to go down in flames at the end (more or less), the Bleakers are subdued and only act to help others along and thus give themselves meaning. The Doomguard, on the other hand, acts constantly to bring about the very thing that takes away their hope. Perhaps the hordelings are similar to this. They are, despite their apparent insanity, all working toward bringing about some goal - the one thing driving them into a screaming rage and keeping the gray apathy at bay. This is, of course, opposed to the typical shades that petition the Gray Wastes, who are more of the subdued kind of hopeless and only act to bring others to the same fate (because they are, after all, evil to the core).

As for the hive mind thing, I like the idea but we have to differentiate it from Cranium Rats. At one point I was toying with the idea of having hordelings be various pieces of one personality. Thus, when a really evil person dies in some particular set of circumstances (perhaps being annihilated by holy energy or something), his mentality is shattered into numerous bits, each one different and representative of its original intent, but all raving mad from the dislocation and attempting to destroy as much Good as they all can before literally being devoured by their rage or falling back into the apathy and combining into... what? Larva? Night Hag? Perhaps becoming a Hag rather than a petitioner is what drives these berks forward. The only thing I can't figure out yet is why large groups of them work together. Are they all part of one person's shattered psyche or many people's with the same goal?

Hordlings are Anonymous, and Anonymous does not forgive:

They are the spirit of anonymous hatred, cruelty, and apathy--of the killer who took your love from you and was never found--of the unknown person who strung your dog's entrails across the lawn and disappeared--of the man who stole your wallet when you weren't looking. Each possesses the exact same mindset--that is to say, no mindset at all. They are anonymous, and thus do not exist in a 'singular' state--each is merely the product of a Multiverse's worth of hatred, ire, and indignation directed at one person--Anonymous.

Strange things happen among Hordlings, sometimes. Every so often, a planar traveler who kills one will find something that was stolen from him by an anonymous thief long ago, or find evidence that the Hordling was the one responsible for killing his love. This, of course, makes no sense--Hordlings just aren't sophisticated enough for this level of chicanery. But it seems more and more that the Hordling are becoming representative of the faceless evil of sentient beings.

We Rage, Therefore We Are:

The Gray Wastes saps even the most passionate of artists of all their will to live; but for a select few, it does precisely the opposite. Where, after all, does all that emotion go--where do all those secrets, forgotten lore, passion, and energy end up?

It gets poured right into the Hordling's heads.

The Hordlings are those mortals who were immune to the Gray Waste's Fade effect, and thus became victims of the very passion and secrets that the Gray Wastes hold. The mind of a Hordling is a maze--but unlike a gray sister, it's a maze they have no way to navigate. The rage drives them to the brink of madness--most of them deal with it by just savagely killing things.

However, a Hordling's skull is full of the secret of the Gray Wastes, which means that the right researcher might be able to get something out of a Hordling (if they can overcome their seething cauldron of rage, or pick through their brains). This is a dangerous practice because that which drove the Hordeling crazy can easily drive you crazy.

Goddamn It, Someone Turn That Noise Off

The Hordlings are not a bunch of murderous ravaging beasts. At least, they're not supposed to be.

Once, a long time ago, they were a group of powerful fiends meant to patrol the Gray Wastes. They curtailed the various attempts by the Gray Sisters to basically take over and reduce the Gray Wastes to their stomping ground--and so the Gray Sisters struck back.

The Gray Sisters have produced a spell that creates a single constant screeching sound that only Hordlings can hear. This sound drives the Hordlings mad with rage--the only way to curtail the anguish and agony of the sound is to kill. Brief respite is offered when Hordlings slake themselves on the blood of non-Hordlings, but this is always temporary--the sound soon returns to them.

God knows how many centuries of this screeching buzz in their brains has reduced the Hordlings to mental mush. Some of them still retain their brilliance, but now all that brilliance is twisted towards desperate attempts to stop the noise, by any feasible means. Hordlings work together begrudgingly--the noise puts them in no mood for cooperation, but they're vaguely aware that more Hordlings = more dead things to turn off the noise.

I kind of like the idea that the Hordlings actually represent one universally evil power that was shattered into a bajillion zillion pieces, and is constantly trying to reform.

It's not so much an interconnected Hive Mind as a vague impulse inherent in all the Hordlings which allows them to function together. The Gray Sisters are aware of this, and in an act of unique charity (not really, they just don't want him to come back and take over) do their best to suppress the Hordlings and keep the power from returning.

My apologies! I was unaware; I'm afraid I'm groping in the dark when it comes to fiendish canon in the Planescape universe.

I'll think about this a little more. Most of it can be adapted around for the Hordlings, but (as you pointed out) it still hijacks the canon. I love the idea of the Yugoloth creating a device that produces a constant, mind-breaking buzz in the minds of Hordlings (thus keeping them ravenous and murderous) to suppress any aims they may have, but that doesn't really seem to connect too well to the Gray Wastes. Setting them up as a threat to the Yugoloth has a lot of potential, though.

I'll wait on hearing some other people's stuff and thoughts on all this before going crazy and spewing out thirty more ideas (or variations on the old) D:

(Just as a fast note--I also really like the idea of the Hordlings considering themselves the most pure evil, stripped of any self-delusions, ideals of grandeur, or mention of a 'greater scheme'--they exist only for their own perpetual self-interest, which is far more dangerous than the Yugoloths' general underlying dedication to the concept of evil. I'll think about that some more D:)

-420

Yes, and I say combine the two!

When the first few million mortal souls entered The Waste first, they were pretty much harmless (or so it seemed). See, they weren't exactly immune to the taint of the plane. Those first petitioners that didn't end up in any pantheon's 'custody' were but unemotional heaps of spiritual mass, deformed in their appearance, grey as the plane they would now inhabit. Nevertheless, they showed a certain pattern of behaviour, namely they tended to crowd together in little mobs, either to protect eachother or because their instinct told them, no one knows. Maybe both explanations are correct, maybe none of them.

The 'loth, who of course took notice at some point, called them [insert wacky name] (which was later translated to 'Hordlings') due to this fact. This name should turn out to adhere to them forever. Yet, if a blood knew something 'bout the 'loth he could've told you that they wouldn't let the Hordlings stay there for long if they'd come up with an idea to make use of them. And they did.

You do not have to be very creative to guess what it was and a body can still see the results today. Also the intention was quite simple: to create the ultimate tool of destruction to be thrown against their enemies, allies, and entire prime worlds. Ultimate or not, the Yugs succeeded. They were pretty excitet about their new pets and they might still be, if the pets would've stayed pets.

(to be continued...)

Ok here's my stream of consciousness, I'll try to clean it up later-

If we are to assume that Hordlings come from the souls of dead mortals (which I would go with to differentiate them from Loths and to bring them into line with Baatezu and Tanarri although I did like the shattered god idea) then perhaps they act as living 'sinks' for the drained emotions of the wastes. I think the Obelisks already do something like this although my memory's a bit hazy so this could mean that the Baern wanted a variable drain to take up the slack- more hordlings=more vents. Too many vents? Kill a few thousand hordlings. It makes perfect sense if you are capable of calling the forced mutation of souls and wholesale slaughter a ‘design feature’.

Alternately the Loths don't have to have anything to do with this- It's simply a natural reaction by some souls to the draining effect of the waste- they’re passions are too strong to submit to the fade so like draws like and they end up receiving the drained passions rather than having those passions stripped (yes I am thinking of the creation of the Reavers in Serenity as I write this).

Something else to remember is that from a purely physiological standpoint rage, joy, love, fear are basically identical. It is the context in which we experience these effects to our sympathetic nervous system (and numerous other systems) that makes us label them as one or the other.
Now imagine you have all the drained effects of a thousand people washing around inside you and you live in the waste...

Even if we do not take this as granted most of the emotions drained in the wastes would be coming from fiends or evil mortals so it wouldn’t make much difference.

It could be argued that Hordlings draw energy from these emotions that suffuse them (rather uncomfortably) and release the emotions through the cathartic act of slaughter, rape and mayhem. If a Hordling could manage to restrain itself then it could conceivably reach far greater heights of power although this would be rare.

As to why they form hordes? Why not? Many creatures seem to and as long as there are external beings to rage against these groups wouldn’t self destruct. This could be due to a hive consciousness or it could simply be due to pheromones or a recognition of kinship. Many animals prey on their own species only as a last resort in this case it could only be because hordlings aren’t sure how powerful each other (or they themselves) are and don’t want to risk destruction.

Rereading that--it's kind of confusing and blah blah blah.

My underlying idea is this:

All Hordelings are the same person--basically a raving murderous lunatic.

However, within this raving murderous lunatic are multiple personalities of particularly strong-willed individuals (and collective of individuals) with their own agendas. They can surface and take control of certain Hordelings, and even command the Hordelings. They strive and vi for power among one another, seek to subsume each other into their own consciousnesses, and otherwise have to constantly do everything they can to stop themselves from being swallowed up by the whole and surrendering to the power of the Fade (which creeps even into the Hive-Mind's collective consciousness). Rarely will an Overlord last very long.

But there may be a few very powerful, very willful minds in there--perhaps one or two which swallows up other Overlords to maintain its consciousness (thereby losing itself constantly, always evolving and shifting as it incorporates other strong wills into it to 'reinvigorate' itself and keep itself from being swallowed up). Anyway, these guys are the true powers behind the Hordelings, and the scary part is that if they're savvy enough, they can access the collective unconsciousness of the Hordelings and pretty much have access to all the collective knowledge of everyone who's ever been swallowed up by the Gray Wastes--and that's a LOT of frigging knowledge.

This may be tied into the Gray Sisters somehow, I'm not sure--still thinking it over. Something to do with this being the source of where all the Gray Waste's secrets come from (the minds of all the petitioners who have been subsumed by the plane). Or, uh, something.

Yeah. I'll think about it s'more.

I can almost here the buzzing...

Sounds like Zerg a bit.

But no, thats not a bad idea, although the "upgrades" should be more subtle than, lets say, advancing from an Lion-faced Gibberling to an Insect with Dragon wings as with most of the other races. The upper castes should look a bit different, yes, but not so much. Maybe they do not advance caste-wise, but rather they become more powerful on a single scale. Means to advance could basically be: 1) eat something 2) kill something 3) kill something and eat it, so they'd feast on their prey. They don't have to know it makes them stronger since their instinct tells them to do.

In my version of teh story the 'loth would have created the first useful Hordlings from the emotionless spiritual mass they've been before. The Yugs wakened the rage (with the buzz!), only to recognise that Hordes became harder to control the more creatrues it contained, up to a point were it would turn against their supposed masters. The following slaughter was terrible and decimated both sides, so the 'loth searched for a save way to get rid of the plague. At this point I realized that I have no idea how they might have done this.

Well, I imagine they do so somewhat like the Orcs of Warhammer40k. Getting bigger, more intelligent, more nasty.

*edit: Oh, one more thing: what should the Hordes have to do with any secrets if they're rampaging maniacs?

I think it is important to reconcile the seemingly chaotic evil nature of the hordelings to their canonically neutral evil alignment. I suggest playing upon their apathy for anything but slaughter, which ties them closely to the Waste. Also, their anonymity does not allow for the individuality so important to the chaotic side of the spectrum yet their actions do not allow for the lawful influence that their otherwise organized horde structure would entail.

Also, since everybody keeps trying to tie the little buggers to the 'loths, here's an idea that might be interesting:

Some bloods claim that the hordelings were once a rather more rational and less bestially organized form of petitioner than they are today. They were the stronger of the petitioners that came to the Waste and were not satisfied with fading into mere shades. The hordelings were as different a form of evil neutrality as they could be from the intelligently designed Yugoloths. Rather than plotting and scheming to get their end goals, the petitioners simply slaughtered anyone that stood in their path - may the strongest one prevail. The hordelings' rage and pure evil so impressed the Yugoloths that the latter decided to try and harness the former. After centuries of research, a specialized team of arcanaloth scholars developed a hitherto unknown form of mass mind control. The Yugoloth's entire standing army was arranged as support for the coming conquest as their Lieutenant General at the time, an ultraloth only slightly less powerful than the General of the Wastes, attempted to gain control of an entire race of petitioners. Everything seemed to be going to plan as hordelings all over the plane stopped in their tracks and simply waited. Unbeknownst to the 'loths, the process had backfired. The Lieutenant's consciousness merged with the billions of raging others. A mental slaughter began, until eventually only one utterly insane but now even more enraged mind remained, having absorbed and conquered the others. Whether it was that of the Yugoloth leader or some very powerful petitioner is anybody's guess, but by that point it didn't matter. The newly created Ultramind called all of its disjointed body together, bringing a horde of souls so great that its like has never before or since been seen. The horde converged onto the single broken shell of an ultraloth at its heart. Just as the minds had merged, so too did the bodies, creating a horrifying, unnatural creature plagued by a disease manifestated of the undiluted rage of billions of beings. This colossal monstrosity began to attack the very Yugoloth forces which had gathered to support it, and despite their best efforts it began to win. The 'loths panicked, bringing their considerable emergency system to bear. Their capital city, the center of their power and knowledge, was instantly cloaked and transformed, preparing it to be teleported to the neighboring plane of Gehenna via a one time emergency spell built into the very city's streets. Many Yugoloths followed their General by portal. Those that did not were slaughtered and absorbed by the ever growing Ultramind. Finally, the remaining few 'loths of the Waste made a last ditch effort to destroy their creation. Calling upon some dreadful pact with unknown powers of evil, the once Lieutenant General's major arranged for every single last member of the Veniloths, a now poorly replaced station in the race's hierarchy that was most skilled at the ministrations of poison, to be sacrificed - body, soul, and memory. The result funneled their infernal knowledge into the Ultramind, poisoning it to death over the course of a year. As its death throws progressed, the very plane was infused with its infinite hatred, and its body crumbled to gray dust, leaving but a single spinal column now known as Khin'Oin. As the 'loths struggled to regroup their divided forces and gain or regain footholds on both Gehenna and the Waste, they noticed odd peculiarities in the petitioners of their home plane. Those that were too stubborn to become shades now emerged as misformed monsters, stripped of all thoughts but their rage and a communal horde mentality by a plane that was simply trying to equilibrate itself after absorbing so much of a single thing. Then again, some old bloods say a lot of crazy things.