Hopes, Fears, and expectations for Sigil in DMG2

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Shadowbite's picture
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Hopes, Fears, and expectations for Sigil in DMG2

Well the news has spread that the Dungeon Masters Guide 2 will feature a full write up of Sigil as an important homebase for Paragon Level characters. So I wanted to know what all of us the devoted Planescape fans especially hope, fear, and expect to be in Sigil's 4e write up.

 I guess I'll point out the obvious to start, it seems that Sigil has been designated a paragon level city and that the idea of low level adventurers travelling the planes has been axed. 

 Another thing is that there is no more Blood War, while this doesn't directly affect Sigil itself (other than the ocassional Blood War spillover into the Slags), but it does seem rather odd and changes things a bit.

 One thing I hope they keep is the notion of Sigil being THE premier cross planar Hub and that you could potentially find anything and a way to anywhere from here. That and the notion of seeing Angels, Slaad, Demons, and more walking down the street.  

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No yugoloths, a completely

No yugoloths, a completely different cosmology, no Blood War, a different history for the planes, no gate towns, no infinite spire, the design notion of 'only paragon or epic tier PCs may travel the planes' rather gimps a lot of things to do with the Factions and how they operate. And all the retroactive changes they'll need to make to Sigil to incorporate all the 4e default. Depending on who writes it, it will be either an interesting, Sliders-esque take on Sigil, or it will be a mockery of the place. I'd prefer someone like Rob Schwalb (currently one of WotC's frequent 4e freelancers) handle it rather than some members of the core 4e design team because he has a handle on the Planescape material, whereas much of the core 4e design team either has a gaping lack of knowledge towards Sigil and Planescape in general, or an often demonstrated willingness to just ignore or rewrite aspects of it to force fit 4e ideals.

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I thought, 4E was supposed

I thought, 4E was supposed to be the first edition that allows low-level PCs to travel to places like the planes and the underdark...

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No, 2nd edition Planescape

No, 2nd edition Planescape handled low-level PCs on the planes first. There was nothing stopping you from doing it in 3rd edition, either. As for 4e, low-level PCs can planar travel as well, but at low levels they mean the Feywild and Shadowfell.

My pessimistic expectation of the DMG2's take on Sigil is that we'll see essentially the same short write-up that we've now seen three times now, in the Planar Handbook, Expedition to the Demonweb Pits, and the 4th edition MotP.

The advantage of retreading the same ground yet again is that at least they won't screw it up, while the disadvantage is that it doesn't really do anything to make new people want to use it. Most post-Planescape takes on Sigil don't really sell the city on how cool it can be.

I wouldn't necessarily assume that marketing it as "paragon-tier" means that it's impossible for lower-level PCs to adventure there - it's just not built to be ideal for them. If a city has to be given a "tier," I'd rather they erred toward higher-level for Sigil rather than nerfing it so that 1st level PCs don't have to worry about encountering scary demons. Paragon is probably about right for the "default" assumptions; this would still leave room for selected epic-level encounters as well, without seeing a tarrasque on every street corner.

 

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ripvanwormer wrote: No, 2nd

ripvanwormer wrote:

No, 2nd edition Planescape handled low-level PCs on the planes first. There was nothing stopping you from doing it in 3rd edition, either. As for 4e, low-level PCs can planar travel as well, but at low levels they mean the Feywild and Shadowfell.

Heh, I was trying to be ironic here. Laughing out loud

In my opinion, every half-way able DM can send her group to (nearly) any place or setting, without ruining its atmosphere, regardless of edition. Eye-wink

If Sigil's indeed being made "homebase for Paragon Level characters", it gives me the strange feeling that the rules dictate when a character may visit the City of Doors, or even when he has to... 

 

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I'd say my biggest hope is

I'd say my biggest hope is that they explore and push the idea that you don't have to fight everything that gets into your way. One of the quotes I remember in the planewalkers handbook was that a (I'm paraphrasing) "a true planewalker knows when to fight and when to avoid a fight. A planewalker also knows the power of subtlety and words".

That said, I have a feeling that planar adventures and adventurers in Sigil are just going to be "monster stomping and take their stuff" adventures in a new locale. Which I think is incredibly unfortunate.

 

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(crossposted from

(crossposted from gleemax)

My hope is that we'll see some Sigil-based adventures revolving around putting the factions or other interesting groups back in power in some form, which would work very well at the paragon tier (heroic characters are too unestablished, and epic-level characters are a bit beyond such concerns, but I can easily see the characters finishing 20th level as faction high-ups, spending the next ten levels finishing their epic character destinies in the planes beyond, visiting Sigil only to rest or at certain critical junctions where only the city to everywhere is central enough for fate to be decided).

Heroic tier: characters perform errands, bust up low-level gangs and drug runners, explore mostly the parallel and material planes with rarer excursions elsewhere. They live in Sigil, but they step quietly until they've proven themselves. They may find themselves owing favors to more powerful Sigilians, but if they're lucky they may find more powerful characters in their debt, and be able to cash in as they rise in level.

Paragon tier: characters are bloods, now, capable of dealing with most Sigilians as equals, zipping across the multiverse with confidence. They climb the city's ladders of power, determining the direction of politics, and finish off 20th level as leaders of factions, sects, guilds, or the equivalent.

Epic tier: Now as virtual avatars of philosophical or planar concepts, characters move beyond their bases of power in Sigil to become planar lords. Still, Sigil is a critical nexus of the cosmos, and events with much larger repercussions may be decided here. Other epic opponents may also use Sigil as a base, though they commonly keep themselves secluded, either considering themselves beyond petty political concerns or manipulating the factions, Golden Lords, and fiendish and celestial paragons as puppets beyond the scenes. At lower levels the player characters may have been unaware of their existence, but now they're the equals of the chessmasters of the planes.

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