Have an Idea- Need Critique

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Shadow of Torment's picture
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Have an Idea- Need Critique

After reading about the "Walking Castles" of the Outlands, coupled with my fondness for Doctor Who and a faint recollection of the Manual of Planes, I got to thinking of a possible extraplanar strongold for my game (or anyone else who wants to use it). Basically, it's how I think the TARDIS would function in D&D; it's an artificially engineered demiplane, tied to a "control key" and with a singular portal-gate that can, by using the control key in conjunction with an internal control panel, be attuned to any plane/Prime world the user can think of- though the controls are Extremely Complex (basically: 1% chance per level that the portal goes to wherever you want it to go). The portal can't open in any planar location like Sigil, Ravenloft or the Lady's Mazes though.

So what do you think? Sound possible? Too implausible/high-powered/stupid?

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Have an Idea- Need Critique

When you say attuned to any plane do you mean simply to the plane in the broadest sense (i.e. the portal opens to a random location on a plane) or to a specific location? If it is the former, I would say the portal is radically underpowered when you consider the high likelihood of mishap (80% for even a lvl 20 character); even if it is the latter (which I will assume) this is far from being overpowered. I assume any character who would have access to demi-plane as a stronghold would have access to the spell planeshft (if they aren't of high enough level for that spell, they should not have a demi-plane stronghold) and if this is the case they can access whatever plane they want anyways (outside of Sigil, Ravenloft and the sort). Essentially the portal sounds like it is extremely unreliable version of the spell Gate that can only be used from one location; nothing at all remarkable for a high level party. It is perfectly plausible.

Shadow of Torment's picture
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Essentially, the portal can be opened to any precise location the controller can think of, from the very top of Mount Olympus to the Throneroom of Demogorgon. If you can get it to work. Beside the control chamber and its portal, the demiplane is quite vast (not infinite though) and there are multiple "parasites" in the form of smaller demiplanes attached to it, these are normally used as specialised chambers. When first opened, there's every possibility that the demiplane is inhabited by various critters that have stumbled inside or were brought there deliberately and which have since establishd a (very short lived) community.

MakThuumNgatha's picture
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Then what I said holds true; it is not at all overpowered for a high-level party (lvls 11-15). At extreme high-levels (17-20) the portal becomes irrelevant since the party will have access to the spell gate.

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Have an Idea- Need Critique

This sounds a bit like the Planar Sphere from Baldur's Gate 2, which I always thought was pretty cool.

I'd replace the percentile roll based on character level with a Use Magic Device, or Spellcraft check with a really high DC (40, maybe). That way, characters who really know how potent magic works can use it to more effect, and high level characters will actually be able to use it somewhat effectively.

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So antificially constructed demiplane capable of "connecting" to just about anywhere in the Multiverse doesn't sound overpowered? Okay then... I don't suppose you could suggest a way to actually use it in a campaign, could you? Initially, I was thinking of going for a Prime-based party that "accidentally" stumbled into the demiplane and, after killing off/making peace with the various Planar entities already inside, then "branches out" into Planescape proper... but this is probably a lousy idea, yes?

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Owlbears

'Shadow of Torment' wrote:
... but this is probably a lousy idea, yes?
Not at all. Its a good idea.

In my first campaign I used the Well Of Worlds Intro adventure, and that makes the PC's fight an owlbear guarding a portal to Baator. A friggin' Owlbear? That is simply a boring idea. I don't recommend using Owlbears as the guardians of the demiplane. They have serious identity problems.
Being part owl, part bear will do that to you.

Armoury99's picture
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Have an Idea- Need Critique

All this certainly sounds viable and not overpowered theoretically. Sounds like you’re looking more for a deus ex machina and plot device than an item; building a campaign around the shifting demi-plane, exploring it, and where it can take them. So your question becomes about how you use it in the campaign (and as a fellow Who fan, I feel obliged to support it!)

I’m also a preparation-maniac, so bare with me if I go on...

The game balance issue seems to have been explained well enough above; especially if it’s rather unreliable or you set sufficient difficulty on the skill check (either way the DM has a lot of licence for interpretation).

Personally, I’d probably make the skill roll Planology instead and have the console be an enormous planar etherescope, but working in reverse: when you set the ‘scope to represent the appropriate plane, you travel there (that gives the PCs a reason/need to find the appropriate settings for an specific/obscure location – research in the Fraternity of Order libraries or possibly even scouting it out first).

Mysterious artefacts and strange and bizarre contraptions fit right in with PS, but stylistically you’re probably best avoiding any obvious references, like referring to it as a TARDIS, as it will just disturb the verisimilitude – done right, your PCs should never catch on (on the other hand, depending on the tone of your game and how much your PCs are ‘in on the gag’ you can pepper the whole thing with subtle or blatant references – long scarves, mechanical dog golems, armies of modrons screaming “EXTERMINATE!”, and the mysterious man they call ‘The Guvnor’, etc)

It’s probably best to keep the device as mysterious as possible (plenty of precedent for that), but decide on a few operating rules and some history for the PCs to discover, so they don’t think it’s just a plot device. Things like:

-How does it actually work?
-Who built it and what clues are there to its origins?
-Is its original purpose different from its current use?
-Are there any unseen dangers involved in its operation? (like ‘parasite demi-planes’ perhaps?)
-Where has it surfaced before?
-Who knows about it and is after it for themselves?
-What results would Bardic Lore/Legend Lore etc produce?
-What’s the ‘feel’ of the place? The class and faction of its creator is probably the most significant factor here.

I don’t see there being any major problems in giving it to low level characters (unless they let someone more powerful steal it). They’ll have enough problems trying to get the damn thing working right with their limited skill scores, and exploring the maze of corridors that connect the major ‘rooms’ and the various hazards/wandering creatures (like angry owlbears Laughing out loud ).

Some other things that leap to mind:

- What spells / flavour of magic does it use: bardic, arcane, clerical, raw divine power from a captured demigod? This should affect the flavour of the place.

- Remember that any spells the key uses to summon the entrance portal will be affected by the magic-limiting Rings of the Outlands, and possibly by other effects on various planes/realms.

- How often can the controls be used? Is the number set, or does the ‘recharge time’ vary depending on where you are? (are you going to be stuck in Demogorgon’s throne room for an hour, day, week...)

- How long does it take to activate the controls?

- Does the entrance portal you ‘summon’ appear right in front of you? In the nearest bounded space? Or in place of the nearest portal? How long does it stay for with each use? Does it disappear as soon as you go in/stop waving the key around, or does it stick around like any other closed portal, until you move the device? (I like this option, as it gives PCs more to worry about)

Also, if it appears in the place of a normal portal, what happens when someone tries to activate that portal? Does it simply not work, or is there a chance that they could end up inside – is it effectively a ‘portal shifting’ device, so any portal can be made to lead inside the machine (I like this option too).

- How easy is it to break in? My only game balance worry is that the stronghold sounds pretty impregnable and I’d expect the PCs to retreat there to camp and whenever they’re in trouble. I’d assume that any portal opening or locking spells can affect the doorway.

(If they’re clever, it also means they can take armies of cohorts about with them)

- Parasite demi-planes: These sound like a fun concept, and the ability to have weird areas where odd rules apply has a thousand uses. But what’s attracting them? Are they a planned feature or a side effect? Does it attract existing demi-planes or do they ‘bud’ from the main source (some kind of reproduction?). If you go with the idea that the machine is in some way intelligent/psionic (like the TARDIS) then is it the machine itself that is luring the demi-planes in? What happens if it snares Neth, the Plane That Lives, or when their original creators turn up?

Great idea
Lots of stuff to think about
Hope I’ve helped

Shadow of Torment's picture
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Have an Idea- Need Critique

The truth of the matter is that I can only answer a few of those questions you brought up; I simply don't have a clue about the rest! I don't suppose anyone could help me figure them out?

*The place is created/fuelled by arcane power (perhaps even "techno-arcana"? Based as much on arcane principles as scientific ones?)- I was thinking maybe give it an "engine" that will, occasionally, need "fuel". Like the Planar Sphere and it's Tanar'ri hearts.

*The portal leading out from the demiplane is in a fixed location- I was thinking in the same room as the control panel, but that does render it somewhat vulenrable.

*It can manifest portals in any appropriately shaped space, but if there is a pre-existing portal in the immediate area then it will "overlap" that portal.

*Once established, the portal remains in position until the demiplane is moved.

*The portal can be losed off from the inside by the controller, although it can still be affected by externally-cast portal opening/locking spells; "generic" portals receive Spell Resistance 20 (too high?) against such magics whilst "usurped" portals can't be blocked off by the controller.

*"Usurped" portals can be activated by their pre-existing keys, but doing so results in the user ending up inside the demiplane.

*The "parasite" demiplanes were a planned feature of the creator (who, incidentally, is either dead or has lost interest in its creation), as they provided a "loophole" in terms of space/power- basically it was easier to use secondary demiplanes to increase the size of the overall "stronghold" than to simply expand the (already considerable) demiplane itself.

Well, that's all the answers I can come up with. On a random note; what would the stats be for Daleks in Planescape, and what effect might having a colony of them suddenly appear on the planes have? For some reason I keep seeing an image ofa small group of lesser Tanar'ri fleeing for their "lives" whilst pursued by a regiment of a Whovian's favourite death-dealing battlesuited mutates.

On a completely different topic, I have the issue of Dragon magazine (#339) featuring the "post-Faction War" Incantifier PrC, but I don't actually know anything about this Faction- can someone educate me? The article says that the Incanterium believe arcane magic was the key to reality, and that the Lady wiped them out, but was this before or after the Faction War? Also, what were their Faction Abilities prior to becoming... well, "arcanites"?

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Have an Idea- Need Critique

This is a good idea, and a perfect device for transferring low-level PCs around the place without relying on scrolls of Planeshift and whatnot. The unreliability of the machine/demiplane allows a certain degree of control for the DM and the mysterious nature of its operations prevent the PCs from completely hijacking it. I think the demiplane should only function at intermittent, unpredictable times closely aligned to the speed of plot.

The good Doctor continually found himself stranded in strange places until the local problem was resolved, then whatever malfunction the TARDIS was experiencing was quickly resolved. Being sent to Orcus' throneroom, and having to survive for 2 days until the demiplane is "repaired" would make for an awesome adventure for low-level PCs. They obviously couldn't just hack their way out!

Actually, I used a similar concept in a non-Planescape game I ran in high school, but the machinery of the transport artifact required various things to activate, akin to gate keys. Your players have to be really adventurous though, because as Armoury99 said the temptation would be stay safe inside the demiplane and never come out.

'Armoury99' wrote:
(on the other hand, depending on the tone of your game and how much your PCs are ‘in on the gag’ you can pepper the whole thing with subtle or blatant references – long scarves, mechanical dog golems, armies of modrons screaming “EXTERMINATE!”, and the mysterious man they call ‘The Guvnor’, etc)
Heh. What a fun idea, especially since some of my fellow roleplayers have recently tuned in to the New Doctor Who episodes. I'll have to use The Guvner some time in a game, even if it's just a cameo.

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Have an Idea- Need Critique

'Krypter' wrote:
Being sent to Orcus' throneroom, and having to survive for 2 days until the demiplane is "repaired" would make for an awesome adventure for low-level PCs

I too now have a strange urge to afflict this adventure on some PCs!

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