Half-Githzerai?

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Uphoria's picture
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Half-Githzerai?

Hey all,

I have another question for all you planes geniuses. I have been roleplaying a githzerai character in a game for last year or so and I was just wondering if it was possible for their to be a half-gith. I haven't read anything official on the wizards site so I was wondering if anyone here can shed some light. If it is possible I would like to know:

How do you find the new borns physical characteristics?

How much of the Githzerai abilities (dex bonus, wis. bonus, psionic abilities) would affect the child?

Is there a set time for pregnancy? (human = nine month, gith = ?)

My char is male btw if that helps at all in the awnsers

ripvanwormer's picture
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Re: Half-Githzerai?

"Uphoria" wrote:
I was just wondering if it was possible for their to be a half-gith.

Probably. I'd let you play one, if I was the DM.

Quote:
How do you find the new borns physical characteristics?

They'd be more or less human (assuming they're half-human) in height and weight, maybe a little taller and thinner.

Quote:
How much of the Githzerai abilities (dex bonus, wis. bonus, psionic abilities) would affect the child?

I'd just give the character a +4 to Dexterity, 60' darkvision, and combat prescience three times a day and call it ECL +1. That's just a guess, though; the idea is to reduce the abilities and bonuses approximately in half.

Quote:
Is there a set time for pregnancy? (human = nine month, gith = ?)

Gith mature at half the rate humans do (so a 30 year old gith is equivalent to a 15 year old human) and continue to age at half the human rate until they die. Githyanki aren't pregnant for very long, however, because they lay eggs. It's not clear whether or not this is true for githzerai. A half-gith would probably age at about three-quarters the human rate.

Barking_Wilder's picture
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Half-Githzerai?

A half-gith? It would have to be some kind of accident/charm/magic/evil test gone wrong. Githzerai are too proud of their heritage and far too insular to ever breed with any NOT of their stock. And Githyanki surely have too strict a caste system for them to even consider breeding with lesser beings?

Also, I might be wrong but didnt I read somewhere that Gith are more reptilian than mammalian? I might be crossing races here (been out of the link for a while) but im sure I read that Gith have a reproductive system similar to Alligators and Crocs.

Even if the latter isnt true, id say the former is enough reason to say that a half-gith is a unique or very nearly unique occurance.

Smeazel's picture
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Half-Githzerai?

For the record, Unearthed Arcana gives characters the option of having githyanki or githzerai "bloodlines", justified as follows:

Quote:
After a raid, a githyanki or githzerai war party may return home with prisoners or rescued slaves. In some rare instances--particularly when children are involved--they take pity on these individuals and raise them as their own. Upon reaching adulthood, such a gith-raised character may take a mate among his or her rescuers, resulting in half-blooded children who then pass on the gith traits to their offspring. These descendants share the githyanki warlike nature or the githzerai xenophobia, and tend to be hard-hearted or even cruel.

Obviously, you don't have to consider this Planescape canon, but it is at least acknowledgement of the possibility of gith-human crossbreeding in an official WotC product.

I think Rip's proposed stats look generally okay. Personally, I'd put the Dex bonus at +2 rather than +4, but give the half-githzerai spell resistance equal to 2+character level. But, as Rip said, that's just a guess; it's really up to the DM.

extropymine's picture
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Half-Githzerai?

These are two really good points.

But I would even say that Unearthed Arcana takes a somewhat "touchy-feely" stance on the Githyanki that I don't really share.

My own two cents is that half-gith would be more likely produced from "lost" gith colonies, ones similar to the renegade encampments that have been published from time to time (and there's a new one in this month's Dungeon).

Half-gith from the astral empire? I doubt it.

extropymine's picture
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Half-Githzerai?

...and now that I think of it, Githyanki lay eggs.

Which may or may not complicate the "half-gith" question.

Rhys's picture
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Half-Githzerai?

"Take pity on captured prisoners? Pity? The very word is an insult to untold millennia of bloodshed by my people. No self-respecting Son of Gith would ever consider that a prisoner could be worth anything. A prisoner, who lacked the courage and fortitude to succeed or at least kill itself when victory had escaped. The suggestion that a human could be raised.... 'as one of our race' gives me an urge to vomit. No mere human could even be spoken to as one would to a true avenging Son of Gith. Those fools have not passed through the crucible. They have not earned the honor for which my glorious decendants have fought and died. It disgusts me. You must be thinking of the pathetic degenerate minions of that ruinous traitor, Zerthimon. That sounds like their sort of idea."
~Hrun Kre, githwarrior, who finds the idea of Unearthed Arcana's githyanki bloodlines to be revolting.

extropymine's picture
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Half-Githzerai?

"And they're filthy. They don't wash, they're home to nests of parasites and vermin. Trust me; I know. I used to live in Tu'narth and I saw them when they came from their ghettoes to buy and sell in the markets. Smelly, filthy, disease-carrying creatures.
"I would not allow them to touch me, let alone what you are suggesting... repulsive!"

-Zek'sei, githyanki m'lar

Antar000's picture
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Half-Githzerai?

first of all, this is my first post. hi.
Anyway, onto the meat of the issue...
The gith races were once human and an interbreeding of them and humans would be possible, if far-fetched. Their egg-laying, which occurred as a result of the most hated illithids' cruel and torturous experiments, make them odd for mammals, but they remain mammals nonetheless. As this happened before the ideological break of the 'zerai and 'yanki, both should be egg-laying species...
But I'd allow it, so long as a reason for the union was given and explained well. I'd also say that the baby would be born in the manner of the female parent, but a bit more to the middle. A human-born half-gith would have a thick placenta at birth and be a short (8 month?) pregnancy. One born from a gith would be similar to that of a gith's birth, but would have a thinner, softer egg, and take longer to birth. I'd also make them sterile, just because of the odd admixture of reproductive systems.

nick012000's picture
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Half-Githzerai?

I thought the githyanki laid eggs because of interbreeding with dragons?

ripvanwormer's picture
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Half-Githzerai?

'nick012000' wrote:
I thought the githyanki laid eggs because of interbreeding with dragons?

It's a valid theory.

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Half-Githzerai?

I was pretty cool with that idea myself.

Mephit James's picture
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Half-Githzerai?

'Antar000' wrote:
The gith races were once human and an interbreeding of them and humans would be possible, if far-fetched. Their egg-laying, which occurred as a result of the most hated illithids' cruel and torturous experiments, make them odd for mammals, but they remain mammals nonetheless.
Now, now, there's certainly a lot of supposition in that first sentence. There are some references to the gith races being from a "human-like" race that was twisted by the illithids, but that's not exactly saying they're human. I personally always liked the uncertainty of gith origins. They could be twisted humans, xephs, elves... Hell they could even be mutated dromites! But, like everyone else that's posted, the concept of half-gith is just too interesting for me to dismiss. I think we all had the same reaction: "Hmmm... The appeal of gith without the prerequisite social mores? I'd be a fool not to give it a whirl!"

Smeazel's picture
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Half-Githzerai?

'Mephit James' wrote:
There are some references to the gith races being from a "human-like" race that was twisted by the illithids, but that's not exactly saying they're human.

There are, however, other canonical sources that do explicitly say they used to be human--not just "human-like", but human, period. In fact, in their very first appearance in the 1E Fiend Folio, the forerunners of the gith races were said to be "evil humans". When second-edition came out, the 2E Monstrous Compendium maintained that the gith races were descended from humans--again, humans, not just something "human-like". This was also stated in the Planescape Guide to the Astral Plane (although the Planescape boxed set had, admittedly, implied that githzerai didn't like the idea of being descended from humans).

Now, it's true that as far as I know no 3E source has explicitly stated that the ancestors of the githyanki and githzerai were humans, as opposed to some other human-like race. But this uncertainty is new to 3E. There's been quite a bit of retconning on other matters between 2E and 3E, of course, and if you prefer the gith ancestors to have not been humans in your campaign that's certainly more than justifiable...but it's not true that it was never stated that they were humans. It was stated in multiple books in 1E and 2E, and it's only in 3E that WotC seems to have stepped back and decided to be more ambiguous about the matter.

Korimyr the Rat's picture
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Half-Githzerai?

I don't mind the Gith races being descended from some generic humanoid, or from humanity itself-- either way works for me, and since they're so widely divergent from humanity, they don't even need to retain the Human subtype.

I just don't like them as egg-layers, though I'm getting to the point that I can stomach the notion for Githyanki, because of the draconic overtones and the timelessness of the Astral.

edit: On-topic, I'm also entirely uncertain how I feel about the idea of them interbreeding with humans-- both from a biological and from a sociological perspective.

Lothem's picture
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Half-Githzerai?

The Githzerai especially, while they ARE still Gith, and are still in many ways unified and hide bound, are also Chaots. Saying that "no Githzerai" would this or that is, at best, an exercise in futility.

Even among the most utterly hide bound of the Githyanki, where being hidebound is seen as a virtue, universal comments are unlikely to be accurate. Among the Githzerai, such statements should be almost anathemic. Is it unlikely that a Githzerai would act in such and such a manner that does not dovetail with his racial norms? Sure. Is it impossible? FAR from it.

Lot

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Half-Githzerai?

Also, there are a number of gith of both races wandering the planes as exiles and adventurers.

What do adventurers tend to spend money on? Ale and whores. Eventually, some of those whores are going to wind up pregnant. This leaving the possibility of a gith having an uncharacteristic fit of emotion and falling in love with a human. Emotion is largely unpredictable; it's part of what make it so annoying.

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