Green Ronin's take on Gehenna.

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Dalmosh's picture
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Green Ronin's take on Gehenna.

I have recently picked up Green Ronin's Book of Fiends; a nicely put together piece of 3.5 work with superb artwork and lots of really useful fiendish encounters at all character party levels. The high quality of the content for me is partly attributed to the research into real world Occultism that the authors have undertaken (it has one scary looking Bibliography that would no doubt include the Necronomicon if it existed). The Abyssal section is fantastic, and the Baator section has some decent content that one can chop and change into Planescape as some of the Lords of the Nine are essentially the same, simply needing adjusting to take The Reckoning of Hell into account.

I am curious whether anybody utilizes any of the material on Gehenna and the daemons though. I was a little disappointed to find such a radical reimagining of this Plane, though I guess WotC own creative control over too much of the canon for them to have much to work with.
Nevertheless the idea of a Lower Plane focussed on the Seven Deadly Sins is pretty cool, and the content seems of high quality. So does anybody incorporate any of this material into Planescape, and if so which aspects?

Hyena of Ice's picture
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Re: Green Ronin's take on Gehenna.

I guess WotC own creative control over too much of the canon for them to have much to work with.
Bingo. The 'loths and related lore aren't SRD content.

If you remove the fluff about sins, some of the stuff ranges from salvagable to "works very well". Morning's Plague would be an excellent parasite/disease to be spread by having sexual contact with Yugoloths, and perfectly fits their preference for indirect assassination. Man, I just love the idea of fiendish candirus! *essentially what Morning's Plague is* It's deliciously adult content.

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Re: Green Ronin's take on Gehenna.

Also, it looks like I have some old notes on encorporating the Gehennan lords from that book.

Using the same rules, the other Yugoloths would be "exarchs" of the following:
--General of Gehenna- war, intrigue/secrecy, innovation, the yugoloth race
--Oinoloth- despair, pain, pestilence, tradition

Most of the fluff of course has to be ignored-- aside from their mercenary behavior, the Daemons in The Book of Fiends behave nothing like they do in D&D, and of course the Gehenna in the book is nothing like the Gehenna in D&D.
Nonetheless, some of the materials are useful-- with some makeovers. Many of the monsters and most of the "exarchs" themselves are quite salvagable. The exarchs simply need to be tied more with the intrigue-related aspects of the sin they represent, and instead of tempting mortals, they primarily tempt other fiends (and other non-fiend outsiders)

--Wrath-- Tyrexxus-- change to Retaliation and guerilla warfare; he belongs on Carceri. Should be less direct than depicted in the book.
--Lust-- In'nassi-- change to Seduction, Temptation, and Torture; it belongs on Gehenna. The seduction and temptation portfolios apply to the use of seduction in subterfuge and politics, rather than pure primal lust.
--Sloth- Viasta-- don't change. Belongs on Gray Waste.
--Gluttony- Yungo-- add consumption to the portfolio. Belongs on the Gray Waste.
--Greed- Mytaxx- don't change. Belongs on Gehenna.
--Pride- Gravicarius- don't change. Belongs on Gehenna.
--Envy- Ulasta- don't change. Belongs on Gray Waste. Probably a half-fiendish dragon of Yugoloth descent instead of a full-blooded dragon.

That would bring us back to how the "Altraloth" exarchs would work. Here are their portfolios:
--Bubonix- (Carceri) Disinformation, plague, war secrets, battle confusion, ambition
--Cholerix- (Carceri) bribery, mercenaries, haggling
--Chronus/Cerlic (River Styx) the River Styx, travel
--Taba (Wanders the Lower Planes) espionage, hellbreakers and abyssbreakers (hellbreakers are a PRC in Fiendish Codex II who specialize in breaking into an Archdevil's stronghold)
--Xengahra (Outlands) despair, outcasts, betrayal

ripvanwormer's picture
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Re: Green Ronin's take on Gehenna.

Dalmosh wrote:
I am curious whether anybody utilizes any of the material on Gehenna and the daemons though. I was a little disappointed to find such a radical reimagining of this Plane, though I guess WotC own creative control over too much of the canon for them to have much to work with. Nevertheless the idea of a Lower Plane focussed on the Seven Deadly Sins is pretty cool, and the content seems of high quality. So does anybody incorporate any of this material into Planescape, and if so which aspects?

Their "Gehenna" is more like the Gray Waste, and their "daemons" work as hordlings (I think) - creatures whose sins were so prominent that they resisted the Wasting and physically altered their spirits after death, warping them in the image of their sins.

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Re: Green Ronin's take on Gehenna.

Would that actually work though? Exarchs of the Hordlings? I was always under the understanding that they were the Gray Waste's answer to imps and mephits.

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Re: Green Ronin's take on Gehenna.

Hmm, a few more that work just fine as 'loths with a slight change in the fluff:

--Daemon, Furtivin (tasked with covertly stealing from clients what they owe one or more 'loths for their services)
--Daemon, Jageth (tasked with guarding the coffers and vaults of other yugoloths.)
--Daemon, the Languishing (attracted to the victim's despair and wish to amplify it even further and preserve it for all eternity-- it's not the sloth they are attracted to. Languishings are found almost exclusively on the Gray Waste, and almost never on Gehenna.)

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Re: Green Ronin's take on Gehenna.

The role of hordlings is poorly defined in D&D. They're just gibbering, somewhat chaotic "hordes" that roam the Waste, and they aren't given a major role in planar politics.

But really, they're the neutral evil equivalents of tanar'ri and ancient baatorians in the sense that they evolve directly from larvae - and thus mortal souls - without needing any outside force to intervene. The yugoloths, who have no direct connection to souls, are their own thing, an artificial race that sustains itself mostly via their three towers. It seems that at some time in the distant past, the 'loths must have imprisoned or enslaved their leaders and left them leaderless and rudderless, unable to mount a significant challenge to yugoloth domination of the Gray Waste.

I wouldn't compare hordlings to imps and quasits, who have to be created deliberately by tanar'ri and baatezu superiors (not to mention they can grow a lot bigger).

I think you're right that some of the daemons in The Book of Fiends could work as extra yugoloth castes, if you wanted them. All of the ones labeled "mercenaries," for example.

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Re: Green Ronin's take on Gehenna.

But really, they're the neutral evil equivalents of tanar'ri and ancient baatorians in the sense that they evolve directly from larvae - and thus mortal souls - without needing any outside force to intervene. The yugoloths, who have no direct connection to souls, are their own thing, an artificial race that sustains itself mostly via their three towers.
I thought the 'loths were born from the plane's essence like everything else (save the Baatezu, that is)

It seems that at some time in the distant past, the 'loths must have imprisoned or enslaved their leaders and left them leaderless and rudderless
In other words, the Exarchs would have to be remodelled as Yugoloth lords (which I had already done).
Only problem is that the Lust Exarch lacks any minions that fit the Yugoloth model-- dashing debonaires or ravishing beauties who bed with fiends, celestials, etc. in order to extract secrets and ruin plans-- the closest any daemon gets is the jade empresses from Creature Collection III, which fit in better with pride than lust, sadly. I guess one could rework them, however.

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Re: Green Ronin's take on Gehenna.

Hyena of Ice wrote:
I thought the 'loths were born from the plane's essence like everything else (save the Baatezu, that is)

I'd divide the various fiendish races into multiple categories:

Born from the essence of their plane
Yugoloths

Born from primordial larvae
Obyriths, hordlings, ancient baatorians

Born from petitioners
Tanar'ri, baatezu (indirectly), hordlings

Sexual reproduction
Night hags, barghests, diakka, nightmares, etc.

These categories aren't hard and fast ones. Elder baatorians (in the form of nupperibos) can now be born from petitioners. Both tanar'ri and baatezu can now form directly from the essence of their respective planes. Tanar'ri and yugoloths can reproduce sexually. But I think the categories are useful, anyway.

I think when the General of Gehenna first cast Law and Chaos from the yugoloth race in the form of larvae, there were actually three groups of larvae, not two. A group of neutral larvae also formed, and became the first hordlings.

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In other words, the Exarchs would have to be remodelled as Yugoloth lords

I think instead I'd keep them as hordlings, but make them imprisoned somewhere.

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Re: Green Ronin's take on Gehenna.

Ah, so do you think I should change the Outer Planes Resource Index to indicate that the Book of Fiends Daemons are hordlings?

Also, that leaves a problem-- we're going to need a Yugoloth lord of seduction and leaked military secrets. Any ideas on a name for her?

As for her 'loths, I plan to make a modification of the Jade Empress called a "Fornicoloth" (what? It's no worse than the other Yugoloth names, and it is the best latin word I could find for lust.) I mean, we truly do need a type of yugoloth dedicated to seducing Blood War (and even celestial) generals and extracting secrets from them.

It also means that we need to come up with a weaksauce yugoloth dedicated to Taba, whose job it is to collect reconiassance on which Lower Planar nobles (and which rooms) have the good loot, who also play the role of covertly collecting overdue debts to other 'loths.

Though before I do that, I'd like to ask you what changes you think should be made to the 3.5 Ultroloth to make it more formidable like Pit Fiends and Balors.

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Re: Green Ronin's take on Gehenna.

Quote:
Ah, so do you think I should change the Outer Planes Resource Index to indicate that the Book of Fiends Daemons are hordlings?

Well, if you want! Maybe "daemon" is a generic term for all natives of the Gray Waste, like "demon" and "devil" comprise multiple species.

My personal opinion is that hordlings are the neutral evil petitioner-spawned fiendish race, making them roughly equivalent to baatezu and tanar'ri, both of whom make more of their kinds from petitioners one way or another. But probably the Green Ronin version of daemons should be used however the individual DM thinks is most appropriate.

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Re: Green Ronin's take on Gehenna.

In my vision of Hordelings there was always a Tiefling folk tale that inbreeding among Tieflings would result in Hordelings.

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Re: Green Ronin's take on Gehenna.

Oh, man, that has even more insidious implications since hordlings are NE-- I think the idea of losing their chaotic nature might be even more frightening/disgusting than becoming the quasits of the Grey Waste.

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Re: Green Ronin's take on Gehenna.

Hyena of Ice wrote:
Oh, man, that has even more insidious implications since hordlings are NE-- I think the idea of losing their chaotic nature might be even more frightening/disgusting than becoming the quasits of the Grey Waste.

Tieflings, not tanar'ri Sticking out tongue

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Re: Green Ronin's take on Gehenna.

The quasits of the Gray Waste are the nalgs. The general term for imps, nalgs, and quasits is burzugdur. Just saying.

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