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Githzerai God-King?

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Sat, 2006-03-04 16:26
#1
ripvanwormer
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Githzerai God-King?

The present - or just past - Vlaakith has been queen of her race for "only" 1000 years. How long has Zaerith been around?

Since the beginning of the githzerai race?
Countless millennia?
2000 years?
1000 years?
A few centuries?
A decade?

Or maybe nobody has any idea.

Were there other kings before Zaerith? Were they also named Zaerith?

Zaerith Menyar Ag-Gith doesn't seem to be as fundamental to his people as Vlaakith is to hers. It's possible the githzerai don't really have a tradition of kings, and Zaerith is a relatively new innovation.

Zaerith is "apparently" immortal. Why is this?

Is he an outsider?
A quasi-deity?
A prolonger?
An incantifer?
An Athasian-style dragon king?
Undead?
Does he simply reincarnate, generation after generation?
Is he not immortal at all?

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Mon, 2006-03-06 06:48
#2
Nemui
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Githzerai God-King?

I read "apparently immortal" as "has been around longer than this chronicler or the people he talked to". Which could mean something conclusive, but probably doesn't.

I would say the 'zerai do have a tradition of kings, though they don't take it as seriously as the 'yanki.

IMO, Zaerith Menyawhatever isn't really such an important figure at all. There really is no githzerai society as such to rule over - the anarchs are self-employed, the rrakkmas too, the monasteries ignore him - what else is there? The 'zerai commoners that pay him lip service? They might call him "god-king", but I would say the 'zerai interpretation of the word "god" is akin to the japanese "kami" - a powerful and mysterious "spirit" that deserves respect (and not blind worship).

I like the idea of prior kings of the same name. Maybe it's the status itself, the symbolic position that the githzerai respect (because it signifies Unity), and not the man who holds it.

Fri, 2006-07-07 22:02
(Reply to #2) #3
Howarth Davin a...
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Zaerith Menyar ag-Gith

I disagree (I think). As the "Great Githzerai", Zaerith is likely one of the greatest heroes of the People. Described initially (1st edition) as an immortal wizard-king, he might have discovered some secret of extended life unknown to other Githzerai (or perhaps he spends most of his time on the Astral, which would prevent aging). Or, quote possibly, he a Githzerai who has discovered some secret of the Slaadi, perhaps related to the Spawning Stone. Maybe he is not a Githzerai at all, but a Slaad Lord who has infiltrated the Limbo-bound 'zerai society sometime along the way. We *know* that the Great Githzerai values traits and viewpoints unbecoming of the People and that his closest advisors and henchgith (the Thieves' Justice) do not follow the ways of the Unbroken Circle. He is the ultimate trickster, the rat lurking behind the wainscoting of Githzerai society; maybe "he" is somehow the true Gith herself, fighting the False People in the only way "he" knows how? fostering the spiritual enlightenment she can never attain by sponsoring the followers of the Zerthimon, whom she now realizes (after being betrayed by Vlaakith to Tiamat, and somehow escaping) had the true vision?

1. Is he an outsider? ........maybe.. a true Lord of Chaos, a spontaneous creation of Limbo in response to the intrusion of the People in the First World?

2. A quasi-deity? ........Definitely, but this doesn't tell us much.

3. A prolonger? .....This would be the obvious interpretation, so this is probably not the case.

4. An incantifer? ...... I have no idea what an incantifer is, enlighten me.

5. An Athasian-style dragon king? .... Absolutely not. I don't like the Athasian dragon idea; the creations of Rajaat are too material, too prime-bound. The set of conditions leading to the ascension of the sorcerer-kings was too specific, too unique. Unless of course Zaerith is actually one of the original 15 Champions somehow... The 'zerai did set off a psionic bomb on Athas once, must have had a good reason....

6. Undead? .........No way, not the 'zerai style. Unless the Great Githzerai is actually Y'gorl in disguise maybe...

BTW, ripvanwormer, I'm new here but love your material on the Githzerai that I've read so far.

Sat, 2006-07-08 15:51
(Reply to #3) #4
Zenosaga
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Githzerai God-King?

Possibly, the God-King of the Githzerai is Dak'kon.

Dak'kon was a powerful Zerth, who fell during the First Battle of Shra'kt'lor. He was revived by the being known as the Nameless One, who then enslaved him. The Nameless One died, but in his last incarnation, he again met with Dak'kon, and the two became allies, friends even. The Nameless One traveled to the Fotress of Regrets on the Negative Energy Plane, and merged with the Transcendant One, a being capable of creating whole planes. The resulting fusion became a General in the Blood War, but may have granted Dak'kon the power of a deity for his help before departing.

Dak'kon then went to reclaim Shra'kt'lor from the Githyanki, and fought the Second Battle of Shra'kt'lor. He won and was crowned God-King of the Githzerai for liberating their capital and redeeming himself. He serves mostly as a figurehead and supreme commander in times of war, rather than doing day to day rulings of the People. The Incursion may be exactly what will allow him to lead the Githzerai to defeat the Githyanki, and maybe even bring back together the two races.

Tue, 2006-07-11 04:31
(Reply to #4) #5
nick012000
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Githzerai God-King?

I don't think the events of Planescape: Torment are canon, and you ascribe too much power to the Transcendant One.

Tue, 2006-07-11 11:41
(Reply to #5) #6
Zenosaga
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Githzerai God-King?

'nick012000' wrote:
I don't think the events of Planescape: Torment are canon, and you ascribe too much power to the Transcendant One.
Torment was officialy sanctioned by TSR as they were involved in its creation, and the Transcendant One himself mentions he can create/unmake planes.

Tue, 2006-07-11 12:20
(Reply to #6) #7
Clueless
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Githzerai God-King?

Planewalker and most Planescape fans as a whole don't consider Torment canon. It's hands down the best rendition of the setting in computer game format in existance, but for the sake of sanity and plot conflicts with other printed material - it's not a canon source. So, Nick's right, take the stuff you find in Torment with a grain of salt.

Tue, 2006-07-11 20:21
(Reply to #7) #8
ripvanwormer
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Githzerai God-King?

'Howarth Davin ag-Talaron' wrote:
maybe "he" is somehow the true Gith herself, fighting the False People in the only way "he" knows how?

That's an interesting idea. He is Zaerith Menyar Ag-Gith; maybe Gith was her last name, and that other stuff was always part of it.

Quote:
4. An incantifer? ...... I have no idea what an incantifer is, enlighten me.

The Incantifers are a planar sect dedicated to the philosophy that magic is the greatest and most fundamental power there is. Once they were the Incanterium, a Sigilian faction, until they grew too powerful and were mazed by the Lady of Pain. The survivors learned how to transform themselves into unaging beings who feed on magic to prolong their unnatural lives.

As for Torment, I think it's good enough to be considered canon, if quality is the only criterion.

Thu, 2006-07-13 04:36
(Reply to #8) #9
Howarth Davin a...
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Ag-Gith

Or perhaps the Ag-Gith surname denotes that Zaerith was once Gith's mate, and no longer is ("divorced"), like some European names I've seen from the 19th century and such (Elizabeth Jones nee Howarth). This brings up an interesting point for me... Any character this old wouldn't technically be either githyanki or githzerai (even Gith herself). They'd be "forerunners". I haven't liked the stats I've seen for early gith so far; what would they looks like, etc.?

Wed, 2006-12-06 13:55
(Reply to #9) #10
Boris the BugBear
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Well...

I was always of the opinion that The Gith King was of little consequence to his people. Since the Githzerai are a people that love their own opinions, inclinations, privacy and actions too much to ever heed a truely fuedal king, much less be controlled by one, I often thought of him as more of a modern version of the British Royalty. He is more of a figure head and less of a real ruler. If the chips were down, he could certainly call on the people and would fight for them, but ultimately he just lives the good life and tries to make sure the whole of limbo and the githzerai don't burn to the ground.

I could very easily see him as a "new" king or that the name and position are hereditary. I could also buy into the wisdom of kings past idea, where each of the kings of the past are available to him through the wonders of Limbo and psionics. Perhaps he is immortal, but if that were the case he wouldn't really be inconsiquential to his people, as they would have a quasi-diety looming over them. I would also think that this would raise too many questions about why he was immortal and how much like the lich queen has he become. Ultimately, if he was immortal, I would simply chalk that up to Limbo or Big Magic. Either is possible.

Finally, if you make him too much of a super secret, then that is just one more creature in a long list of things (especially in Planescapes) that is just way out of the characters league. Please don't read that as unkillable, but more as, never gonna be able to actually interact with. He could still be very mortal and very powerful, there doesn't need to be anything "power-like" about him short of his title and his raw-quite-epic levels and his connection to his people.

Wed, 2007-01-10 14:54
(Reply to #10) #11
Elethíus
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Githzerai God-King?

Personally, I always saw the Githzerai as a race that valued autonomy above all things, somewhat related to the Enlightenment-ideal of rational autonomy amongst other forms (be it that the 'zerai have a couple of gallons of xenophobia and stubbornness tossed into the mix as well). In this, it always pretty much surprised me that the Githzerai would have a king at all, since one of the first thing that happened when the enlightenment-ideals were brought into practice, was to decapitate royalty and nobility (at least, so did the French).

The acknowledgement of a King within Githzerai-society sounds to me as the acknowledgement of an exceptional (if not flat-out the greatest) individual amongst equals: someone who deserves respect for his acts and exemplaric 'githzerai-being'. Zaerith is to his people a living example that they can live up to, as far as 'zerai would commit him/herself to hero-worship (perhaps much in the line of Dak'kon revering Zerthimon, which sounded pretty believable to me).

As the examplaric 'zerai, Zaerith would of course be masterfully autonomous, which would pretty much fall in line with the age-question concerning the King: he has somehow managed to endure the forces battering the individual during their lifetimes, including such effects as aging and physical deterioration. He has endured, and in enduring, he has grown strong. Of course, he would need no others to support him in this: he is not that King that grows fat and bloated from the taxes he collects from his subordinates. He doesn't need his people to survive, and so both he and his people remain free from the reciprocal shackles that bind the participants of usual monarchies. The simple title of 'king' would simply be a stab at his distant cousin, who has resorted to impure and binding practices to keep herself alive (not to mention the entire corrupt and evil society in which she lives): while he is of course a wizard, Zaerith would be unfettered by the constraints laid upon a person who enters into the arcane dealings that are needed for such a forced stretching of ones existence.

Just my two coppers.

Sat, 2007-11-17 22:26
(Reply to #11) #12
Charles Phipps
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Githzerai God-King?

For me, my take on the Githzerai God-King was that Zaerith Menyar Ag-Gith was a reminder that the Githzerai were not particularly supposed to be benevolent and had their darker sides as well. With Vlaakith's death, it seems like a good idea to accent the fact that they have their villains as well.

For me, Zaerith Menyar Ag-Gith is probably the most powerful of the Githzerai and the only one whose able to force the whole of the race to follow his opinions. You don't get to become God-King unless you've got the ear of every single member of the society for whatever reason.

I tend to think that he's uninterested in the kind of domination that Vlaakith enjoyed but is able to muster all of the Githzerai whenever there's a kind of problem that threatens the whole of the race or a project that needs to be done.

For the most part, I think that it's probably Zaertih whom organizes the endless back and forth war with the Githyanki (possibly the Illithids). For whatever reason, I'm inclined to think that he probably is the guy that keeps them in Limbo for whatever reason. I doubt, seriously, that the Githzerai have an emotional attachment to the Plane.

But yes, in Incursion, if the PCs want to get the whole of the Githzerai race to come help them hamper the Githyanki then the only person they can turn to is Zaerith. When he speaks, the race listens. Even if he's probably got some malevolent scheme up his sleeves.

I'd definitely like some thoughts from the Planewalkers on what exactly he is. My take would be that Zaerith is probably related to Zerthimon. I wouldn't say a Blood Descendent or former advisor, that's too much like Vlaakith but it'd be nice to write him up as a disciple or founder of the religion.

Zaerith might well be the "Saint Peter" equivalent of Zerthimon and the man in charge of caring for the Race. Were it up to me, I'd make him a 20th Level Monk/18th level Wizard or something equally powerful. The 20th level Monk status granting him Outsider status.

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