Githyanki project

Legacy of Vlaakith?

Actually, I think PS3e is going to be making a metaplot. They're already evolving the setting. Once everything is out, I don't doubt that there will then be "official" adventures and plots that are put out.

To start with, I think a power-void period with many 'factions' of the Yanki in a cold war (after all they were always loyal and peacefull to their own). As the 'Yanki go beyond the previous hard set level cap (imposed by the queen) will their old code of ethics hold out ? Maybe a few of these 'radicals' (who believe they are above the old codes) hire assasins or other outside groups to help their cause. This in turn could spark off a full blown civil war.

In the wake of the queen's death and the end of the 'official' line , it might be fun to throw up into the air the often downplayed red-dragon alliance. Just what was the EXACT wording of Gith's agreement with Tiamat (if there was one). The dragon god probably had somthing in mind to further its own gain. Maybe the 'new' Vlaakith is a dragon in disguise (or a proxy), or maybe somthing more sinister.

Another thing that might be fun to consider are 'loyalist' groups to the old Vlaakith. Many worshiped her like a god , and I dont think that all of them would believe it that she is actually deed. With all that belief , in death Vlaakith may achive what she could not in life...

Lastly, the 'Yanki have made many enemies over the years. News spreads fast on the planes. I am sure that they will be lining up at to take advantage of this coming weakness.

Lorft

Perhaps conflict from outside the internal tensions building in the race should be an avenue within this project that deserves further exploration.

Wasn't there an adventure in Dungeon about some githyanki wench who thought she was the reincarnation of Gith? Maybe now that Vlaakith is gone Gith will find some way to return, either through reincarnation or by escaping her deal with Tiamat? Then again, maybe Tiamat will try to take over where Vlaakith CLVII left off, demanding obedience from the githyanki and creating duthka'gith legions to enforce her will...

I think the possibility of Githyanki who are Dragon Samurai (a somewhat overlooked Miniature's Handbook PrC) could be played up effectively. I think that works as a very good meshing of the red dragon pact and the Githyanki's warrior nature.

With Vlaakith gone I'd suggest one power group would be those potent Githyanki who were already past the level limit through hiding out in areas beyond Vlaakith's reach, including Githyanki liches of the Negative Energy Plane, who might have some interest left in the fate of their people.

Actually I think the samurai model might be something that could be considered for adaptation to the Githyanki race as a whole. Minus the cultural trappings the mindset of samurai from the Sengoku (civil-war) period of victory at any cost and military might as the ultimate answer while still having a respect for history and culture has some good parallels to the Githyanki race. Taking this idea a bit further, Gith rose to leadership of the Githyanki race through military accomplishments (more or less). With her line effectively ended I can see ambitious generals leading Githyanki armies into battle against Illithids, Githzerai, or Psurlons and hoping to achieve the kind of incredible victory needed to catapult them to leadership over the whole race.

Beyond the who's in power question I think it might be good to sort of put an unspoken sense of urgency behind the whole power struggle situation. The Githyanki have many enemies, and if the longer they lack unity the more things crumble. If struggles go on without any one leader emerging the Githyanki's empire might begin to decay at the edges.

I think it is pretty self-evident that Vlaakith betrayed Gith and sold her to Tiamat in return for the pact with Ephelomon and the chance to be queen of the githyanki. What would happen to githyanki society if someone proved this was true?

I like the Githyanki as they are: evil and twisted by the cruelty inflicted on their race. Turning them into shades of gray weakens the whole idea. Good adventures need good villains. They *do* need more detail on why they commit evil, but they should not be reduced to "misunderstood regular guys who just happen to be expansionists". Developing a twisted set of githyanki ethics would be useful, though.

The githyanki civil war following Vlaakith's death would have to be limited in scope, I think, or the Githzerai would wipe them out in short order. Unless a philosophical split within the Githzerai prevents them from attacking their hated brethren during their moment of weakness. But since the Githzerai are also lead by a God-king, I don't see what would prevent him from seizing this opportunity. 'Course, maybe that's what you want; Githyanki cities overrun with Githzerai while 'yanki generals and necromancers vie for leadership. A sort of Japan-in-1930s-China scenario. It would certainly be exciting for Astral visitors!

The level-cap on aspiring githyanki always bothered me. I prefer the idea that powerful githyanki are exiled and sent to the Prime to conquer in the name of Vlaakith while being as far away from her power centres as possible. Now with Vlaakith gone, these epic warriors, mages and priests might return to claim their share of status within a New Githyanki Order.

Perhaps dreadful new githyanki magic and artifacts have been developed in secret, far from the paranoia of the old lich-queen, and have now resurfaced.

But try to keep the whole civil war short. The drow civil war turned the dark elves from nemesis into foolish victims in the Forgotten Realms. Villains need that aura of invulnerability, strength and ruthless determination in unity, otherwise they become a joke, like the eternally-feuding and ineffectual Zhentarim. The githyanki are scary partly because they are (were) a race totally united under a god-like lich-mother. Don't reduce them to clownish backstabbers.

Also, minor point, but I remember reading that the githyanki never fight amongst themselves. Is this a racial thing or a result of Vlaakith's strict rule?

I found a couple of intresting articles on Mimir about the Yanki, see if these help spark anyones creative juices.

http://mimir.net/outlands/locations.shtml -scroll down to Gith Confederacy. Intresting stuff on this one, and talks a little bit about why Vlaakith and the Zerai God-king really steal the souls of their kind.

http://mimir.net/outlands/itharin.shtml -Itharin a gatetown to the astral ruled by moral gith races. Yeah it's abit out there, but there's alot of content and it's well put together.

I'll post my own comments after I think on this abit. And just to chime in I'd prefer a meta-plot, assuming the PS community can learn to agree on a few things.

Hmmm... Is it possible that this has never happened before? Was every Vlaakith instantly replaced by a more-less identical lich-queen? Is this the first gap?

If there has been a similar situation, what were the consequences?

What divine spark? Sucking on the dead husks? Good thing I missed that module, what with that extremely original deity-wannabe idea and all...

Anyway, what's the difference between living (astral) immortality and undead immortality, in this case? What's the standard 'yanki method of handling succession anyway, rare as it may be?

The first is much more pleasant-looking. There are spells that cause time to "catch up" even on the Astral Plane, but it's likely the queen of the Githyanki is magically protected from such things.

The main reason for a githyanki to delve into lich-craft is power. Being undead offers a few advantages that mortals don't have. Vlaakith CXLII may have wanted to become a lich in order to become a better necromancer. Perhaps it had something to do with her attempt at channeling the remnant energies of a dead god: who better to do it than another dead husk? Perhaps it's related to her ability to sense the life-forces of all her people wherever they go.

Or maybe she was exiled for a long time and needed to be immortal in order to outwait her persecutors on another plane. Maybe she thought that, as a lich, she could more efficiently kill all her cousins and sisters.

200 years per ruler? Arbitrary is an understatement. I don't see what an assumption like this can be based on. Not that it matters...

And if the githyanki civilization has existed for 30,000 years, that's not particularly impressive if you take into account the timeless trait of the Astral. But the 'zerai, 30 millennia on Limbo, now that's impressive...

In fact, the most surprising thing (ignoring the lack of technological progress, as we allways do) would be the fact that the two races still haven't resolved the conflict one way or the other.

Arbitrary yes, but its based on the Githyanki lifespan, which is supposedly double that of a human, or about 200 years if you remain healthy and trim. Also, we can assume the Lich-Queen lasted longer than any other Githyanki ruler, so the average reign needs to be much less than a thousand years. Ultimately I feel just picking a number for average reign is better than arbitrarily picking a number for the whole of Githyanki history, and its important to have a defined time frame because the Githyanki almost certainly have important events going that far back if they've managed to keep track of how many ruler's there've been.

It may seem surprising that such a conflict can go on, but the incredible longevity of many members of these socieites is going to slow down their rate of social progress dramatically. Think about the prejudices children are taught by their parents and grandparents. Now imagine having relatives that have been nurturing grudges for centuries. Imagine having an uncle who could vividly remember life in Spain before the Reconquista, or grandmother who was actually aboard the first Portuguese slaveship sent to the Americas from Africa. How would you view the world after hearing their stories while bouncing on their knees? How would you view change?

While we're on the subject, shouldn't there be some rebellion records in the Illithiad? Something that can narrow it down to a couple of millennia? I'll have to dig up the pdf later...

Has anyone checked the modules that went along with the Illithiad for chronological clues?

True enough, although the timeless trait of the Astral Plane means that those queens who don't regularly visit the Material Plane will live until violently killed. Depending on the ambition of their successors and the wrath of their enemies, this could reasonably be eons, but because the Lich-Queen's millennial reign was apparently the longest, a 200 year average seems reasonable - short enough that the Lich-Queen's reign is impressive, but long enough that the fact that all this is in the Astral Plane is evident. The fact that 200 years is substantially longer than a githyanki generation makes the distortion of timelessness all the more apparant.

The substance of the discussion was Mechalich speculating that if the average reign of a githyanki queen is about two hundred years, and the Lich-Queen is the 157th of her line, then the first Vlaakith might have first taken the throne 31,400 years ago.

The Sargonne Prophesies (in the Illithiad) suggest the origin of the illithids were a strange alien object rupturing the fabric of space from Outside and falling to a dead world as a thaumaturgic meteorite. You might also deduce from that tablet that the first illithids were eyeless.

The Illithiad also says that illithids are as old as "credible histories" and certainly older than many other races of the material plane. "A tome of truly ancient and useful lore" suggests the illithid empire existed "past all knowledge of present worlds, before the crowning of Ra, when the Outer Planes were yet in flux, and while the elemental planes remained untarnished by counter-contamination." Which would be a very long time ago indeed, though the veracity of this is uncertain. 31,400 years seems reasonable in this light; I wouldn't make the timespan any shorter than the roughly 10,000 years of elven history in the Forgotten Realms, and I would prefer that it be quite a bit longer, or else you might have to worry about how the ancient elves dealt with the illithid imperium.

The Temporum Sphaera claims the illithid empire began only 3000 years ago, but that's much too recent unless it is only a lesser, latter-day incarnation they refer to. At the latest, the first illithid empire should have begun around 60,000 years ago, at the time of the collapse of the Reigar.

In fact, I kind of like that:

60,000 years ago: A hole tears in reality from the Far Realm, releasing an object which contained the first of the illithids, Far Realm parasites who had infected the host bodies of reigar time travelers. The illithids ceremorph many reigar spellcasters, severing the communication links of their society and destroying their empire. The illithid empire begins.

32,000 years ago: The illithid imperium is finally broken by Gith and her warlords Zerthimon and Vlaakith. Shortly thereafter Zerthimon leads a third of the race away from the fold and the ensuing civil war prevents the Children of Gith from finishing the job.

31,400 years ago: the sorceress Vlaakith (hereafter known as Vlaakith I), ascends to the throne of Tu'narath.

5,800 years ago: An amphibious race called the Syllux conquers most of the remnants of illithid civilization.

3003 years ago: A new illithid empire scores its greatest victory in its war of conquest of the Known Spheres with the destruction of the thri-kreen homeworld.

2900 years ago: The reborn Illithiad Imperium is cut short by the expansion of the beholder races. Battles between the two aberrant species will destroy the illithid conquest within a century.

Sorry to reach back into this thread's earlier posts, but something caught my eye that I feel needs discussed.

There was some argument as to whether or not Githyanki civil war was even possible, because of the Gith ethic against making war on their own kind.

See, I am rather firmly wedded to the idea that Githyanki society fragments, or even shatters, with the death of Vlaakith... but on reflection, I think that the racial unity of the Githyanki should still hold.

So, the Githyanki fragment into several mutually-exclusive power groups, with each fighting for the future of their race. However, they cannot attack each other-- such a thing would be anathema to the Githyanki-- so, instead, they must each channel their efforts to conquests of the outside world, in order to win converts. Perhaps, in some extreme situations, they may even have agents oppose or kill each other, but such a thing would be a source of great shame if discovered.

As part of this detente, the various Gith factions form alliances amongst themselves-- perhaps with certain warlords supporting the reborn Gith's claim to the throne, or others joining in military campaigns with the worshippers of Tiamat. Of course, there's a great deal of controversy as to whether or not Duthka'gith are Githyanki, and of course, each side views the other as betrayers of Gith's legacy-- but they would still hold, more or less, to their racial ethic of not fighting amongst themselves.

I like very much the idea of Githyanki following a kind of shogun-theme around the various warlords, but I think, given the theme of Planescape, that philosophical questions should form the basis of this conflict. I think a dual approach-- a quasi-faction approach based on philosophy and ethics, and a political/personal approach based on various warlords-- would be best, with complicated interactions and alliances based on the two different approaches. Some warlords are more drawn to the cult of Gith Reborn, while others are more sympathetic to the Tiamat worshippers, and others still prefer a strict military hierarchy. Some, of course, would pursue the reunification of the Gith.

I'm thinking this could become a very interesting plot.

A large part of what drives social evolution and diversification is the inevitable generation gap caused by the deaths of aging members of the society. On the Astral this is stymied by the timelessness of the realm. Telepathic communication is also more accurate than verbal language, so there is less room for error. The result is a cohesive society that changes very little even over entire millenia. The death of Vlaakith the Lich-Queen will be a severe blow, but it is not going to fundamentally change gith society...

I don't see the connection. Service to the Lich-Queen wasn't primarily religious in nature, and removing the gihtyanki "Pope" hardly equals removing "every last clergyman".

As said before, it is safe to assume that violent and unexpected successions have occured before. The 'yanki society survived, and apparently has not been fundamentally altered.

BTW, dividing the githyanki factions by belief somehow seems wrong. On a racial level, they didn't seem to get involved in the kriegstanz before, and I doubt they would change that policy at this particular moment. One of the most fascinating things about the 'yanki society for me was its simplicity - anti-illithid, anti-'zerai, pro-military dominance, religious patriotism... And little else. Individual 'yanki are a different matter entirely, but in the succession struggle, I think most would still concentrate on the key points above, as opposed to comparing their views on the nature of the multiverse.

You're both probably right about the metaphor-- I overplayed my hand.

However, what was Vlaakith's chain-of-command? How did she enforce her power and disseminate her edicts? First, would be her favored lieutenants; they were slain in Lich Queen's Beloved. They would pass orders to the highest-ranking Knights-- many of which killed in Beloved as well as the invasion of Pharagos.

Of course, some have survived-- but they would be far enough removed from Vlaakith and from coherent authority that they could not ensure a smooth succession or maintain a unified government. In fact, I'd dare say that they'd form the basis of the split, as they each seek to either establish themselves in positions of power or act in support of their chosen faction.

Certainly so-- but in each case, it seems apparent that there was at least a clear heir. The Githyanki knew who would assume the throne, even if she were unprepared.

In this case, there is no one. There is no heir, and everything I have read about Githyanki culture suggests there's no "royal family", and I have a hard time picturing any kind of line of succession without a direct blood heir. If you'll pardon me making use of your own arguments, Githyanki culture is too simple.

This leaves the fundamental disagreement we're all discussing here-- how shall succession be determined? Religiously? Militarily? Since there will be disagreements, there will be division-- in a society almost entirely unaccustomed to such.

I'm not really thinking in terms of philosophy-- my thinking is mainly political. As you say, "follow the leader"; the monarchists would be choosing to follow someone with a fair claim on Vlaakith's throne, the draconics would be choosing Tiamat (perhaps in Ephemolon's memory, or as a way to honor Gith, who struck the Pact), and the warlords would be choosing, more or less, themselves.

Even if you stick with the simplicity of 'yanki culture, and avoid the idea that their entire society will be shaken, there will be disagreements over how to replace Vlaakith-- there are good arguments in favor of each party-- and this disagreement itself will be a shock to Githyanki sensibilities.

The Emperor didn't really have any power in feudal Japan (well, okay, a whole lot of symbolic power, zero real world force), the power rested with the Shogunate. When the shogunate fell and there was nobody appropriate in line to take the place periods of intense chaos could result until someone else took power, but there was generally a little bit of waiting before everybody cut loose.

Vlaakith stands rather between emperor and shogun, certainly she retained a tremendous amount of temporal power, but like the emperor she was isolated from the people in a single city and revered to the point were only the highly placed, mostly her knights, had any legitimate contact with her.