Githyanki Intimacy

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Azure's picture
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Githyanki Intimacy

*** Warning : Mature Content ***

The following is intended to be a frank discussion of sex in a fastsy environment, and is not intended to depict, advise, solicit, condone, inform, nor advocate any intepersonal relationship, sexual or otherwise.

*** ***

Background ( Partially canon, but heavly influenced by the Rrakkma Project fan content )

Githyanki are perhaps the most egalitarian of societies. Even more than the elves, they pay little heed to whether the warrior they fight beside is male or female. They are raised communally, githyanki eggs are raised in the warbands' hatcheries on the prime. A cohort of similar ages is trained by the caretakers, and their bonds of comradery with their battle brothers (and sisters) becomes their family. Then the testing begins. Those that survive are welcomed proudly back to the astral, full members of a warband. From there the may attend training accademies that hone their martial, psionic, or arcane skills.

***

There are many similarities between the cultures of ancient Greece and feudal Japan. Though I am in no was an expert in anthropology, I am well read and interested in history. A martial culture like central Japan during the 'warring states' period encourages close bonds between comrades-in arms. Homosexuality was was not taboo. Greece even had the Sacred Band of Thebes, elite warriors who lived, ate, and slept together.

It is also noteworthy that in both cultures, though prostitutes hadn't the social status of married women, they were regarded much more highly than they are in our modern western culture. It was an open practice, legal and available. Prostitutes even had a degree of freedom married women lacked. True, many were forced or even sold into the 'job' due to poverty, I'm not claming the world has ever been all roses and sunshine.

Ancient Greece had a common practice called pedidancy, where a younger male, teen-age to young adult, would have an older 'friend'. Military pedidancy was usually restricted to boys 16 or older.

***

Taking some elements from martial societies, it seems likely that githyanki are essentually bisexual. That does not neccissarily mean promiscuous.

Githyanki give all their children over to the state.

Questions: Do the caretakers track who gave over which egg? When a new cohort of warriors joins the warband, do any parents look for their own offspring among them? Do warbands trade eggs back and forth to diversify the gene-pool?

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Githyanki Intimacy

[mod]As a note to all participants in this thread: Intimate relationships are a key aspect of many cultures and certainly not something to ignore in the development of cultural norms for a setting. That said, please recall that we aim for a PG-13 rating on the site, so please keep to that level of graphic content.

If you could, please keep your posts firmly focused on gaming and planar topics, and as always, keep it civil, respectful and polite since we're all friends here.[/mod]

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Githyanki Intimacy

Something I'll add, from my own musings.

Githyanki females isolated from the Astral (calling kip in Sigil, or on an extended military campaign, or any other reason) are eventually going to become laden with eggs in a situation where mating (or transporting fertilized eggs to a hatchery) is inconvenient or undesirable.

I'd like to suggest that Githyanki females practice a ritualized form of unfertilized egg consumption. While this may be repugnant to many races, and even seem to violate what many races consider to be the 'laws' of Githyanki culture (a prohibition against cannibalism), this ritualized consumption of her unfertilized eggs serves the purpose of denying that any enemies of the race will secure a clutch of eggs for study or manipulation (which would of course be a great fear for the Githyanki), as well as recycling valuable nutrients for the female.

Since Githyanki themselves find the act 'uncouth', this consumption is treated with a similar stigma that many primitive societies attribute to menstruation: it is known to be a fact of life, but not acknowledged or discussed in mixed company.

Also, to add my voice to the githyanki/githzerai "great egg debate" (do Githzerai also lay eggs?), I'll suggest that when they first broke away from Gith, Zerth's followers were egg-layers, just like all Gith that were manipulated by the Illithid. However, a few thousand years in the chaotic plane of Limbo, even within the stable realms of their monasteries and cities, has caused their bodies to gradually revert to their original reproductive system of placental pregnancy.

Anyway, YMMV.

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Githyanki Intimacy

Hey Hey Hey, Clueless. Don't worry. I think it's a very good topic to approach.

Regarding Githyanki intimacy issues, I think it's important to keep two things in mind. One, they're formerly humans and most of the biological urges should definitely be recognizably human in nature. Secondly, they're also egg layers and that means that we need to specify whether or not they fertilize eggs within the womb or without it.

The Githyanki, since they probably have human urges, almost undoubtedly have sex. They probably have sex for recreational purposes as well as the need to biologically procreate. No matter what level of discipline that Githyanki have, this biological urge is also going to be a major point of their existence.

That would imply that Githyanki probably fertilize the Egg inside the wombs of their female members.

If Githyanki were to fertilize the eggs outside of the womb, like turtles, then the urges towards Sex would be probably a great deal less intimate than we have in our society. Let's face it, "consummation" isn't that intimate an act since it's performed entirely manually. While that would be interesting from a societal perspective to explore, it's probably pretty damn weird to get into the heads of.

I go for fertilizing the egg inside.

Now, immediately, the fact that the females lay eggs as opposed to being pregnant nine months is going to have a major reprocussion for a lot of things. It allows female warriors to probably have an "in and out" procedure and then probably immediately go back onto the battlefield. Really, they take only slightly more time than the males do to actually fertilize things.

Simultaneously, Githyanki don't age on the Astral Plane and presumably that means that an egg won't develop or fertilize in the womb to be "lain." In other words, there's NO unwanted pregnancies on the Astral Plane. Period. It's the ultimate contraception since it just does not happen.

Sex probably exists purely for pleasure and recreational purposes in the Astral.

That means that Githyanki have to go to the Prime and I'm imagining there's a mandated State-Controlled "Vulcan Mating Time" for this sort of thing. It could be anywhere from every 4, 7, and 20 years. I'm inclined to the earliest though because I think that Vlaakith wanted to keep the race growing.

I'm inclined to think that bisexuality amongst the Githyanki is probably no major deal but I question whether or not it's necessarilly going to be anymore common. The homosexuality of the Spartans had a variety of cultural factors driving behind it. However, female members of the society will also be travelling amongst the group as well if a male has a fondness for that direction.

Amongst the Githyanki, assuming sex has the same powerful meaning it does in our world, I also imagine that warriors are able to choose mates from civilians in a sort of "Animal Husbandry" even if they are already interested in someone else.

But yes, some sort of Vlaakith style priesthood and State Education system probably handles children's growth from birth rather than parents. All Githyanki, for all intents and purposes, attended Boarding School and the idea of a "parent" relationship is somewhat specious save if your ancestor is somehow a famous Githyanki or perhaps wants to mentor you for some lingering affection reasons.

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Githyanki Intimacy

Eggs and family stuff:

Given that the eggs are laid in communal clutches, what measures do the githyanki take to prevent inbreeding? If no measures are used to prevent it, a gith could unknowingly mate with a brother or sister. (I’m assuming the githyanki would not want to mess up their genetic stock that way.)

I also think that eggs of the members of the varsh caste would be deliberately moved to other egg-clutches. That is, the githyanki take pains to prevent familial bonds from forming between parents and offspring. Mind you, this is a very alien view to many human societies, but try on this point of view:

Family units cause social division and threaten the sense of racial unity and brotherhood. The graith, who usually do have family units, favor members of their own family over non-family members and are inclined to distrust those who are not blood relatives. While a githyanki may feel closer to those of his own warband than to others, he will be more inclined to trust and offer aid to a random githyanki than a graith would if he met a previously unknown member of his own race. Similarly, barbarian families seek to gain power for their family members while denying it to outsiders – forming the most basic form of power bloc within a species. Individual parents may raise children either well or badly, and with massively dissenting worldviews; by raising hatchlings communally, the githyanki keep everyone on the same page as well as offering equality of opportunity to offspring. The githyanki genuinely believe that having individual family units is a barbaric practice.

Astral Plane:

The way it works on the Astral Plane is like this: Something that would require an active metabolism actually does take place, but the results don’t actually occur than one leaves the Astral. Therefore, you can get pregnant on the Astral Plane, but the physical changes don’t even start happening until you leave. (I dislike using this particular comparison, but you can get poisoned on the Astral Plane – you just don’t start taking the poison-related damage until you leave the plane.)

Vulcan Mating Time:

I don’t think the state, even under Vlaakith, takes a direct hand in githyanki mating activities. The predecessors of the githyanki were selectively mated to each other (mating rights were probably granted as rewards in some cases, actually) by the illithids for many, many generations. The idea of state-controlled breeding would probably drive them nuts.

However, I think it very likely that individual githyanki are able to arrange time for activities of that general sort, usually in lulls between seasons of active military campaigning.

Sexual Orientation:

I don’t think the majority of githyanki would be bisexual (i.e. clearly attracted to and having relationships with individuals of either gender). I do think that being heterosexual, bisexual, or homosexual would all be considered socially acceptable, and an individual githyanki would not normally feel distress over his (or someone else’s) orientation. That said, individuals might be more willing to ‘experiment’ with which individuals of which genders they find attractive, since no social stigma is associated with homosexuality.

I think, especially given the violent lifestyle and high mortality rate of the species, most githyanki are socially expected to breed at some point in their lives regardless of their usual sexual orientation. No one is making them do it, though.

While githyanki culture would not discourage emotional bonds or physical pleasure, I think that (due to the whole spartan and stoic nature of the culture) they would discourage ‘excessive’ hedonism. While monogamous, polygamous, or polyandrous relationships would not draw censure, the githyanki would discourage the extreme pleasure-seeking habits of the drow.

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2) Roll a natural 1 on d20.
3) ?????
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extropymine's picture
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Githyanki Intimacy

'Zimrazim' wrote:
Astral Plane:

The way it works on the Astral Plane is like this: Something that would require an active metabolism actually does take place, but the results don’t actually occur than one leaves the Astral. Therefore, you can get pregnant on the Astral Plane, but the physical changes don’t even start happening until you leave. (I dislike using this particular comparison, but you can get poisoned on the Astral Plane – you just don’t start taking the poison-related damage until you leave the plane.)


I agree. The Astral gives me a headache on this front, but we have to discuss it sometime. Fungus grows on the corpses of gods, so certainly some biological functions must continue in some fashion. Your heart beats, you can learn things, and so on. If you can sit on the Astral and slowly fill a bottle with spit, then you must surely be producing spit. So something is going on that allows certain bodily processes to continue.

I mean, if you go by the strict wording of the various planar manuals, a Githyanki female would step off the Astral, feel weird for a moment, and then explode as her body suddenly produced the last X years' worth of eggs to "catch up" with time.

I think we can fudge this by the impact of the Astral on Githyanki over the sweep of time. Perhaps, just as a person can cry tears on the Astral, Githyanki females can produce eggs while on the Astral, but just won't lay them. Her body wouldn't produce more eggs while she was laden, so no exploding on the Prime. But they could be fertilized there, and then be brought to the Prime, deposited at a hatchery, and the life-cycle begins normally.

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Githyanki Intimacy

'extropymine' wrote:
I mean, if you go by the strict wording of the various planar manuals, a Githyanki female would step off the Astral, feel weird for a moment, and then explode as her body suddenly produced the last X years' worth of eggs to "catch up" with time.

Not really. If you go to the Astral Plane for six months, then visit the Prime Material, you don't instantly keel over and die due to dehydration and starvation. (You do feel quite hungry, though.)

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2) Roll a natural 1 on d20.
3) ?????
4) Profit!

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Githyanki Intimacy

Quote:
I think we can fudge this by the impact of the Astral on Githyanki over the sweep of time. Perhaps, just as a person can cry tears on the Astral, Githyanki females can produce eggs while on the Astral, but just won't lay them. Her body wouldn't produce more eggs while she was laden, so no exploding on the Prime. But they could be fertilized there, and then be brought to the Prime, deposited at a hatchery, and the life-cycle begins normally.

I don't know, I tend to think that the contraception element that the eggs aren't produced by females and they can't get PREGNANT on the Astral Plane avoids some of the headaches that thinking too hard on this stuff can do.

It's magic, really, so it doesn't need TOO much explanation but we should probably go with the ones that give the fewest headaches.

And in case I forgot anything, so, females lay eggs and are THEN fertilized. So that sex is purely recreational amongst Githyanki and really has nothing to do with reproduction?

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Githyanki Intimacy

'Charles Phipps' wrote:
. And in case I forgot anything, so, females lay eggs and are THEN fertilized. So that sex is purely recreational amongst Githyanki and really has nothing to do with reproduction?

I think we were going with the theory that eggs were fertilized the more, ah, normal fashion (not the external fertilization theory).

__________________

BoGr Guide to Missile Combat:
1) Equip a bow or crossbow.
2) Roll a natural 1 on d20.
3) ?????
4) Profit!

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Githyanki Intimacy

'Zimrazim' wrote:
'Charles Phipps' wrote:
. And in case I forgot anything, so, females lay eggs and are THEN fertilized. So that sex is purely recreational amongst Githyanki and really has nothing to do with reproduction?

I think we were going with the theory that eggs were fertilized the more, ah, normal fashion (not the external fertilization theory).

Okay, cause some of this post was a bit confusing.

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Githyanki Intimacy

It seems then, it is traditional for a githyanki female to travel to the nearest nursery (whether her own warband's or another's) within a few days of entering a prime world, to deposit her egg. If she has not been impregnated since the last time she was on a prime, she just says a prayer to the Liberator.

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Re: Githyanki Intimacy

From BoG'r OOC:

[Zimrazim wrote]
My guess/opinion is similar to Azure's, but with the following additions/comments:

The entire subject is just considered less important overall than it is in most human cultures. When someone in modern Western culture turns on the radio, they're extremely likely to hear one love song after another. Most of the githyanki cultural energy is devoted toward warfare, the utter destruction of the Great Enemy, destruction of all githzerai, destruction/conquest of barbarians, etc.

While githyanki can indeed "fall in love" or feel emotional attachment, duty is expected to take precedence over love. (The tale of N'ach't is a good example.) Telas-Niah isn't only scandalous because her lover was a githzerai, but because (another githyanki might argue that) her sense of love overrode her sense of duty.

The concept of the sho-dai then is an interesting one. The devotion to one battle-brother over all others is the closest thing in githyanki culture to marriage. Though possibly reversible, it is not entered into lightly. Though usually between battle-brother and -sister, it may be single sex, or involve three (but never 4, bad luck since it equals a 'thid's tenticles) individuals.

Devotion to one over all others is, in a way, a betrayal of the warband and of the Queen. Or it could be seen as the strongest military unit. I see it having a complex role in githyanki society.

The vast majority of intimacy would be of a much more temporary variety. Two githwarriors find each other attractive, and they are together for a time until they bore, or drift to an other, or are reassigned, or die in battle.

This last one brings up a sharp point. I'd imagine that tied up in the githyanki 'honor before love' mentality is the fear of loss, since githyanki lead a violent (towards graith) lifestyle. They probably have may other emotional 'issues' as well.

[To the BoG'r - Character development is great, and I must say the PCs have some interesting pschological/emotional hang-ups that make them imperfect and add depth. As DM (and EvilDM) I applaud and encourage this.]

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""Now, immediately, the fact that the females lay eggs as opposed to being pregnant nine months is going to have a major reprocussion for a lot of things. It allows female warriors to probably have an "in and out" procedure and then probably immediately go back onto the battlefield. Really, they take only slightly more time than the males do to actually fertilize things.""

Uh, it's not quite that easy. If we're assuming that Giths fertilize and develop their eggs much like avians, then the vast majority of egg development will take place within the womb. With birds, when the eggs inside of them get close to maturity, the bird acts sick-- it lays around a lot, it'll lay around in a bird feeder all day, nestled atop the seeds it eats, and be very sluggish. If a human approaches them, they will react either with panic, being almost too tired to move, or they will be too lazy to move and allow the human to approach them to some degree (usually pregnant birds will allow a human to get much closer than they normally would). In other words, the bird acts much like a pregnant mammal does close to gestation.

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Re: Githyanki Intimacy

Some assumptions:

Birth rate (I guess we could call it "hatching rate" for githyanki) is probably high. The githyanki are constantly at war. While they produce many fine warriors, they most likely have a high death rate as well.

Mortality rate for hatchlings: low

Maternal mortality rate (I suppose for githyanki this would be extreme cases of becoming egg-bound): low

Being gravid is on the whole less incapacitating for githyanki females than being pregnant is for human females. That's not to say that it isn't incapacitating at all. (A lot of reptiiles actually go into a trance while they're egg-laying...)

My reasoning here is that since the githyanki are so egalitarian and don't have clearly defined roles for the sexes, the females don't have to spend enormous amounts of time, energy and risk on reproduction. If hatchling and/or maternal mortality were higher, or if gestation were more totally incapacitating, you'd see more division into sex roles.

I'm also guessing that githyanki females normally only lay one egg at a time, rather than a clutch of eggs as is more typical of reptiles.

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3) ?????
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Re: Githyanki Intimacy

Mortality rate for hatchlings: low

Mortality rate ages ~5 to ~20 during training and testing: very high.

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Re: Githyanki Intimacy

Good point

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Re: Githyanki Intimacy

Not to totally go against the grain here, but I would think that if anything, Githyanki would be comparatively aesexual when set against most other humanoid race. The fact that they lay eggs due to the warping of their bodies by the illithids suggests that the illithids deliberately engineered them towards a specific biological prerogative, namely one that was ideal for a race of slaves. My guess is the aim would be to produce a very controlled sexual environment and one were probably studding and other forms of controlled breeding were practiced. Very very few egg laying species have long coitus (if they have any at all), and few have long pair bonds. Pair bonds are largely an evolutionary product of long gestation periods and long periods of development of infants, which is mostly a feature of mammals that give live birth.

Personally, I would see Githyanki sex as quick and dirty largely driven by primal urges and pheromones. Perhaps it would even controlled by the Githyanki themselves. I could see them having a breeding program of their own, pairing up the best warriors and favoring clutches with strong lineages. I don't see them as falling in love in any human sense, except perhaps as some vestigial effect of their human ancestry. The artificial selection of the illithid breeding programs combined with the Githyanki's own selective preference of the warrior lifestyle would really push that kind of behavior away over time. From an RP perspective I think this has an appeal in that it differentiates them from other cultures and other humanoids as opposed to just copying a pre-existing culture and giving it a new name. While there are parallels to feudal Japan, take that too far and you just end up with Feudal Japan IN (ASTRAL) SPACE!

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Archdukechocula wrote:
From an RP perspective I think this has an appeal in that it differentiates them from other cultures and other humanoids as opposed to just copying a pre-existing culture and giving it a new name. While there are parallels to feudal Japan, take that too far and you just end up with Feudal Japan IN (ASTRAL) SPACE!

BoGr is definitely not feudal Japan. Eye-wink

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2) Roll a natural 1 on d20.
3) ?????
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Re: Githyanki Intimacy

True, but as we are people who know the history of our own world, and the bioliogy and society of our own species. Thus, we have to base it on SOMEthing. In addition to Japan in both the warring states and shogunate periods, I try to incorporate ancient Sparta, especially the expansionist, domineering psychology of the conqueror.

Biologically, I consider githyanki as more akin to the very rare cases of egg-laying mammals than to birds. They have internal fertilization, and the egg grows within for a time. They lay a maximum of three eggs, usually just one or two. The egg is then hatched (echidnas have a pouch, platypuses prepare a nest). The young is then fed milk by the mother. Thus depictions of female githyanki with breasts.

In earth monotremes, the ratio is about 2 to 1 as far as time developing internally and externally. For githyanki I'd reverse that, or even go to 1 to 5. Larger creatures need longer development times. I'd say one reason githyanki live on the Astral is that, being native, the egg(s) develop internally, at least somewhat. Thus, a female githwarrior need only hang around the varsh'isk a couple of weeks, beafore she knows if she were laden or not. Perhaps only a couple days, since the varsh-caste would be trained to recognize signs of pregnancy.

I have to respectfully disagree with Archdukechocula. Call it no more than a matter of personal taste, but I envision githyanki mating as much more akin to human mating. Though I do agree that there are probably coordinated efforts by the warbands to breed strong warriors. I think mostly these would be on a social level; the bravest, strongest, most agile warriors are naturally the most sought after anyway, so commanders allow and encourage fraternization. Vlaakith's breeding of the duthka'gith is an extreme example, but also perhaps the culmination of long-standing selective breeding programs.

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Re: Githyanki Intimacy

Azure wrote:
The young is then fed milk by the mother. Thus depictions of female githyanki with breasts.

I had been wondering whether or not githyanki females are capable of lactation. Given the structure of githyanki society, if they lactate, it's the females of the varsh caste who actually do the feeding.

Edit: I'm thinking that those would be some tired varsh, if they did all the lactation for the species. On the other hand, feeding one's own hatchling = maternal bonding, something that githyanki aren't really known for. Another option could be that githyanki no longer lactate, and that that part is present for much the same reason that peacock feathers are. Eye-wink

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2) Roll a natural 1 on d20.
3) ?????
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Re: Githyanki Intimacy

Or that a githyanki babe doesn't need much milk, or that some is collected from the mother and stored (mmm, frothy) .

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Re: Githyanki Intimacy

As for inbreeding: I'd suggest unconcious smell cues. A lot of attraction is handled via smell, even in humans. I could imagine this aspect being much stronger in Gith. So, they just don't feel attracted to closely related gith.

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Re: Githyanki Intimacy

One of the major problems we humans have, is that our gene pool really isn't that large. Yes there are 7 billion of us, but our genetic diversity is less than most other species.

Some of the ideas I came up with to culturally combat close breeding;

1) Varsh'isk usually serve more than one warband. Eggs are freely swapped between warbands in a varsh'isk. Eggs are traded to other varsh'isk, perhaps even used as a form of currancy between the varsh-caste.

2) Pregnant females often deposit eggs in a varsh'isk their warband isn't represented at. They may do this as part of a rrakkma or as a pilgrimage of sorts. Males sometimes make pilgrimages to remote varsk'isk, as varsh-caste also often serve as prostitutes of a sort. Going to your own varsh'isk's for such purposes would be frowned upon, but going to other warbands' accepted.

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Re: Githyanki Intimacy

I'm trying to think what typical githyanki sex is like. They are a violent, aggressive race, stoic, and very efficient. I think they revel in the athleticism of sex, making the actual act violently passionate and intense but also simple and straight to the point. Githyanki are not generally interested in kink and fetishes, these are just ways to delay gratification, something they don't believe in. On the other hand, a gang-bang session would be seen as a display of virility and strength for a war-band and likely bring the members closer together. Sport-coitus shows how strong and passionate you are and would not be considered immoral. Dressing up as a baby and getting spanked by your "mommy" would get you fed to a dragon.

The issue of how babies are brought up could be taken a number of ways. I think the githyanki take the concept of a village raising a child to a higher level, the entire race being responsible in a way for the raising of each child. The varsh may run the show, but everyone has to contribute. There are not enough varsh to breast-feed every baby out there, so all females who are able must make some time to volunteer as wet-nurses. Males must help in training and protecting newborns, too. Each githyanki child has dozens of parents, a steady stream of volunteers being needed to make sure the child grows attached to the whole race.

Pregnancy is always going to make a female vulnerable, but the githyanki are a warrior race and before that were slaves who had to keep working no matter what their condition, so pregnancies are much shorter than in humans. I'm thinking an egg is normally fertilised then laid after only a 3-4 weeks to allow the female to return to the battle field.

The githyanki are known to maintain stocks of slaves and prostitution could be normal among them, so why not have cross-racial sex? I think they would view it efficiently as just another job the slave has to do. A male or female githyanki would casually rape a slave just to scratch the itch and think nothing of it. Over-familiarity with a slave however would be seen as a form of corruption and be dealt with harshly...

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