Game Mechanics

I just sort of assumed that you'll be using either the 2e or, more likely, 3.5e system. It would be difficult to use parts of them while changing other parts, especially if you lose the core idea of classes. You could, of course, come up with a ruleset all your own and only keep the fluff of Planescape. In fact, I've long desired to see something of the sort. Indeed, I'm slowly fleshing out an stat/skill based system for my own purposes, but its not easily convertable to Planescape, since I'm designing a campaign setting alongside.

Personally, I'm okay with doing away with classes, but I think that getting rid of experience completely would end up being an issue. One idea that I've thought of before would be to borrow from EVE and have an additional Real-Time requirement for each skill you wanted to increase. This way we can make ''modules'' that can be taken and applied to each character making them unique. It almost makes each skill like a cross between feats and skills in 3e. We could also divide experience into different categories (see Fable, which was my reference point for the idea) but that may just put it completely over the top.

Before I ramble, this is the wiki for EVE and its unique progression is explained on this page.

Okay, the basic idea would be that everything is divided up into skills and you need both experience and training time to increase the level of that skill. For example (yes, I like examples) say healing magic, fire magic, basic combat, axe training, arcane magic, divine magic, diplomacy, and sneaking .

The four most basic skills of this set would be:
basic combat
arcane magic
divine magic
sneaking
diplomacy

Any of these can be can bought at first level and each race gets a certain number of skills as bonuses. All of the initial training in the skill would be easy, requiring little time to be completed, and a very low experience. Thus, everyone could pick up a bit of combat training to help them when things get messy. The catch is that every time you access a higher proficiency with that skill, the time and experience need to level it up again increases. Thus, if you decide that you want your fighter to become a swordsage, you'd just need to find an appropriate NPC tutor to teach you and you can easily get the most basic levels of arcane magic under your belt. Likewise, that allows anyone to be streetwise or a savvy talker, they just need to invest in diplomacy.

Higher level skills, such as fire magic, healing magic and axe training would have prerequisites before you can access them, and greater training values, but they would also grant more stackable bonuses or special attacks or spells to the list of things you could do. For example, Axe Training could require you to be proficient with axes and have Basic Combat 2, and it grants you bonuses when using axes, as well as special attacks like pinpoint strikes and overhead chops. What do you think?

On a completely random note, do we think it will be possible to use instances in the game? One of the things I remember being worried the most about LotRO was that people would camp bosses or that other people would be running around while I was on an epic story and it would be a complete mood kill and the instances gave me the feeling that it was me and only me (plus my party) that was on this quest. Plus it would cut down on the bandwidth.

Drake

That could definitely work too. On other idea I've had is allowing a player to increase the amount of experience spent on a skill in order to decrease the amount of time it takes to learn it.

This is the database for all of the EVE skills, just to illustrate what I'm referencing when I'm explaining ideas. Personally, I think adding special attacks in at different skill levels would work well in addition to simple statistical bonuses.

Drake

Well, as I have been given the mantle to get the game mechanics on course, I want to get a few critical things clear in my own mind from the project so far.

Question 1
What is the main gameplay aspect of PSOnline?

Is it gonna be a traditional MMO where you hackl down mobs outside of town, then come in and train up, maybe have a crafting skill to make a few items? (wow/ eq like)

Or is it gonna be more free form with no need to go and kill monsters, instead a character can grow and advance in more civilised professions, devoting themselves to mansonry, artwork, resturant running etc etc? (EVE, 2nd life sort of)

this will influence whether character need to kill monsters/complete quests to advance tgheir characters.

Question 2
Do we want a class based system or a free form skill based system?

Having classes generally means a more combat orientated game, with each class filling a role in mass combat - which usually ends with 'raiding'. From a design point of view, having classes makes the game slightly easier to balance (but balance is never truely achieved in most MMOs), but limits what a character may do.

A free form skill system allows any single character to eventually master any profession / combat style they wish. roles in groups become more difficult to determine, but experienced players can still achieve 'raids'.

I feel that we are already leaning towards a skill system, but I just want to be sure here. I would also like to point out that from a business prespective, a class based system is more likely to be profitable, as a player that wishes to experience a different class role with most likely 'reroll' thereby increasing his playing time and therefore increases his likelyhood of further monthly subscriptions (I know that is most irrelevant to PSOnline, but I thought it should be mentioned).

Question 3
To use a level based system experience system or an alternative?

though this question is linked to question 2, it is independent from it and therefore needs to be considered both independently and in combination with the overall game.

Using a level based experience system is a simple solution to the game mechanics, but involves the necessaity of character killing (or 'grinding') enemy mobs for the experience and also usually repetiative quests.

An alternative is much like EVE online's real time skill training system, whereby your character trains a skill passively, whether you are on or offline and any actions you take while online rarely effect the training od your skills. This allows more 'interesting' game play options for the player, but limits the potential for new players coming in late as they are several years worth of skill training time behind those that joined the game when it was first launched. EVE has tried to compensate for this with higher starting skill packages more recently, but that has not solved the problem, just lessened it slightly.

Other altneratives include just quest xp for a level system, whereby just completing the quest gives you an experience reward, killing monsters does not, which may fit better with planescape, but would require better quality quests than most current MMO (go get me 10 rat livers....i dont think so). I believe Stormreach used this system, though I have never played it.

Another option is a task master system, whereby a character improves their skills only by performing them ie improving your cooking by cooking, improve your axe skill by using an axe in combat etc etc.

Well, thats my first post on this finished (sorry about its length).

Comments?

Kal

The planes are built on belief. We should incorporate a reputation system, too.

Ok folks, I wanna put up some initial ideas on the game mechanics of player characters.

A character has 3 sets of major defiing qualities. They are:-
a) Attribtues
b) Skills
c) Bars

Attribtues
I think everyone is familiar with the conept of attrbiutes. The question is, how many, and how board the attributes are going to be. Two exmaples for MMO's I'm most famailiar are

WOW
Strength
Dexterity
Stamina
Intelligence
Spirit

EVE
Charisma
Intelligence
Memory
Preception
Willpower

Two very different examples, but a key point to both of them is that there is only 5. Keeping the number of attributes low I feel is important, keeps things simple and easier for players (especially new players) to understand their character's better.

Skills
Again, most people should be famailar with the basic concept of what a skill is. Within this proposal, I envisage a skill system similiar to EVE online, where a character may (eventually) train almost any skill. An example from EVE would be Gunnery, a basic skill, which, opens up many more Gunnery type skills you can learn as you improve the basic Gunnery skill.

As to learning/training skills. Learning a skill is when a character has no current understanding of that skill. They would hav e to find a suitable trainer/teacher and pay (or maybe do a quest?) to earn the skill. Once 'bought' a character would just train it without the need for further payment. In regards to how to train a skill, I am still unsure, whether taskmaster system or real time (EVE) system or something else?

Bars
Bars are present in most MMOs and many RPGS. They are a character health bar/pool, a character mana bar/pool. Within a MMO environment, such Bars allow distinction between new characters and experienced, played characters very easily. Within PSO, I propose 3 such bars. Health, Mana and Energy. I have briefly outlined Energy in an earlier post in this thread, but the main point for the following discussion is that it would always remain at a constant amount aka 100. This is in contrast to Health and Mana, which would increase as the character progressed.

Together
So, how do these 3 major parts fit together? I propose a system I originally became aware of from Elder Scrolls Oblivion Mod community and the KCAS leveling MOD. Bascially, each skill has 3 governing attributes. Whenever a skil is increased, those 3 attrbitues recieve an increase based on how they contribute to the skill (with a total increase of 1 overall).

Example: Axe skill has strength 50%, dexterity 15% and stamina 35%. When the character increases their Axe skill, their Strength Attribute increases by 0.5 (50% of 1), their dextiery increases by 0.15 (15% of 1) and their stamina increases by 0.35 (35% of 1).

In turn, Atrtbitues determine the Bars (only health and mana, as energy stays constant). Health would have a breakdown of Strength 30%, Stamain 60% & Spirit 20%, and mana would have a breakdown of stamina 10%, Intelligence 60&, Spirit 30%.

Wider Effects
this would allow us to have a wide varitey of itemisation, with weapons basic properties being enhanced by a characters skills, and also allow us to put attribute modifiers on items (a common feature in mosat MMO and therefore famailiar to the overall community).

The skill system, though given with combat examples and wow attributes(they seemed better suited for examples than EVEs), does not mean combat has to be the focus of the game. With the ability to train any skill, we can have as many, if not more non combat based skills, BUT those skills do need valid uses or characters will never train them.

In regards to folks who are familiar with EVE, the attribute governing skill system is there to remove a major 'flaw' of EVE - the learning skills, which in EVE are the only way to increase a character's attrbitues and the EVE developers (CCP) are well known to dislike them and wish they'd never introduced them in the first place.

I hope this post makes sense. I would love to hear feedback from everyone, so please post away, tear this apart, whatever, I dont mind and in fact, I ask you to tear it apart, better to get a good system from the wor d go than to later be told actually, the system kinda sucks

Later

Kal

EDIT The examples I've used (and attributes) are just ball park figures - if the system is approaved I will work out the figures properly, but for now, they hopefully get the idea across.

Just a quick reply - I very much dislike class based systems, and the alternative opens up much greater roleplaying potentials by allowiong creative players to come up with skills cominbations to explain their own hsitories, professions, roles etc.

Planescape was never about the underlying mechanics of dnd, it was about planescape, walking, talking, and not going round hacking and slashing and using classes generally means combat defined classes (and yes, i wasnt exactly thrilled with 4e...)

What I would like to aim for would be a combination of EVE online and what Cidedal of Sorcery are promising (tho that too develops at a snails pace), where we have a sandobx MMO which perople find their own motivations, plus each character has a unique story element which CoS is promising

And yes, combat shouldn't be the sole focus

Kal