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The Four Ways Of Knowing

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Sun, 2010-06-27 16:28
#1
Yemeth
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The Four Ways Of Knowing

The Four Ways Of Knowing are represented by the Archetypes of The Challenger (senses & undertaking), The Thinker (reason & language), The Shaman (feeling & alternative states), and The Mystic (intuition & sacred silence).

Each of these ways of knowing is a gift we all share to one degree or another, and each one gives us access to a distinct domain of reality;a realm or level of reality not available to any of the other ways of knowing.

We can use these ''gifts of knowing'' to gain knowledge of, and participate in, the domains of Matter (our senses), Mind (reason and language), Soul (feeling and ASCs), and Spirit (intuition and silence):

Domains Of Reality

Matter/Body (Sensing)

Mind (Thinking)

Soul (Feeling)

Spirit (Intuition)

I thought it would be interesting to tie these domains of reality to the philosophy of each faction.So here's what i came up with:

Domain Of Body-Doomguard, Takers, Hardheads, Sensates

Domain Of Mind-Athar, Bleakers, Dustmen, Guvners, Signers

Domain Of Soul-Indeps, Mercykillers, Anarchists

Domain Of Spirit-Godsmen, Ciphers, Xaositect

So what do you think?Feel free to share your ideas!!!

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Wed, 2010-07-14 00:10
#2
Surreal Personae
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Re: The Four Ways Of Knowing

This is interesting, you've put some thought into this. I do think that many of these archetypes have overlap (logic in the analysis of results and building research on strong theoretical grounds are key components of science, for example) so there might be a lot of continuity between these Ways of Knowing. Similarly, many of the factions could belong to these ways (I could see Dustmen going with either a stoic Intuition/Spirit or reason/Mind). The thing I have the most questions on are your Domains of Body factions- the Takers, and the Hardheads. These seem to be factions of action rather than senses or other mental processes and don't fit this classification like some of the other factions do. What is the idea behind how they were assigned?

Mon, 2010-07-26 02:55
#3
Yemeth
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Re: The Four Ways Of Knowing

Thanx for the reply Surreal Personae!!

Well i would write down the first thing that came to mind actually when trying to combine the faction philosophy(or rather outlook)with these domains.

The Takers are pretty materialist i guess so i couldn't find something else to fit them in rather than the matter(or body)domain.definitely the least spiritual of the factions and i can't really find a reason to put them under soul or mind domain either.The Hardheads, well they are basically an army and a police force too.the body domain would be more apropriate i think(they are mostly fighter types too).Of course i could be wrong or you could have a better suggestion.

The reason i put dustmen under the mind domain is because they are purely logical faction.the analyze things rather than feel them.and spirit didn't seem apropriate(maybe as a 2nd domain?) since they want to stop existing.but i think that your suggestion is right for their silent intuition thing

Wed, 2010-07-14 19:11
#4
Surreal Personae
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Re: The Four Ways Of Knowing

Hmm, you're right the Takers and the Harmonium are difficult to classify.

At first glance, I thought of the Harmonium as belonging to more intuition, basically intuitively knowing what disorder was and how to respond to it (men and women of action, like the Ciphers). This was mostly based on the appreciation of the harmony of mind and body that the Ciphers have going on (this was mentioned in the Factol's Manifesto). However, the Cipher harmony is an individual harmony, not a group harmony.

So perhaps sense/body is appropriate here, as the Hardheads seem to rely a lot on simple conditioning (classical conditioning and operant conditioning- basically systems rewards and punishments). The hardhead receive his orders (the sensory input) from the superior and act upon those orders. If you see chaos or disharmony, you react to quell it. Ideally, it's all automatic (without wasting time with thought or judgment).

The goal of the Dustmen is to moderate the passions, which seems like a spiritual goal especially with their special reverence for death. The king of knowing they're looking for, the appreciation of life and death, seems to involve a lot of spirituality and intuitive discovery. OTOH, rationality and Intellectualism are also strategies for understanding the nature of self as well. So it could go either way.

Perhaps having a set of domains would be good for these purposes. Here's how I might imagine a few of the factions:
Faction (primary, secondary, tertiary)

Dustmen: Mind or Spirit, Spirit or Mind, Body or Soul
Guvners: Mind, Body, Spirit
Harmonium: Body, Spirit, Soul
Sensates: Body, Soul, Mind

Thu, 2010-07-15 05:38
#5
Yemeth
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Re: The Four Ways Of Knowing

Surreal Personae wrote:
So perhaps sense/body is appropriate here, as the Hardheads seem to rely a lot on simple conditioning (classical conditioning and operant conditioning- basically systems rewards and punishments). The hardhead receive his orders (the sensory input) from the superior and act upon those orders. If you see chaos or disharmony, you react to quell it. Ideally, it's all automatic (without wasting time with thought or judgment).

That's what i thought too...

Surreal Personae wrote:
The goal of the Dustmen is to moderate the passions, which seems like a spiritual goal especially with their special reverence for death. The king of knowing they're looking for, the appreciation of life and death, seems to involve a lot of spirituality and intuitive discovery. OTOH, rationality and Intellectualism are also strategies for understanding the nature of self as well. So it could go either way.

again nice take on the Dusties

Surreal Personae wrote:
Perhaps having a set of domains would be good for these purposes. Here's how I might imagine a few of the factions: Faction (primary, secondary, tertiary)

Dustmen: Mind or Spirit, Spirit or Mind, Body or Soul
Guvners: Mind, Body, Spirit
Harmonium: Body, Spirit, Soul
Sensates: Body, Soul, Mind

You intrigued me to work with these ideas more.I thought of something else now.
Factions(and their members)have 2 characteristics.A basic belief for the nature of the multiverse and a particular lifestyle.So i'm thinking that the first domain should be the most obvious(like something that a third person or non-factioneer would most likely observe)of the two.the lifestyle of a factioneer.

so when somebody observes a hardhead he mostly sees a physical person.that's the image that a guy in an armor conjures(i'm not talking about hardeheads officials).but when he observes a dustman he observes a serene quite guy.

the second characteristic is the philosophy of the factioneer.
its what the observer cannot see with his eyes.but can learn by talking to him.so then he can learn about the hardheads war for harmony and the dustmans true death.

P.S i'll try writing something solid now in my next post

Mon, 2010-07-26 03:58
#6
Yemeth
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Re: The Four Ways Of Knowing

‘’The Challenger’’-Senses and Undertaking-Matter/Body (Sensing)

‘’The Thinker’’-Reason and Language-Mind (Thinking)

‘’The Shaman’’-Feeling and Alternative States of Consciousness-Soul (Feeling)

‘’The Mystic’’-Intuition and Sacred Silence-Spirit (Intuition)

Doomguard-Matter, Spirit, Soul, Mind
Fated-Matter, Mind, Soul, Spirit
Harmonium-Matter, Spirit, Soul, Mind
Society of Sensation-Matter, Soul, Spirit, Mind
Athar-Mind, Soul, Matter, Spirit
Bleak Cabal-Soul, Mind, Spirit, Matter
Dustmen-Mind, Spirit, Matter, Soul
Fraternity of Order-Mind, Matter, Spirit, Soul
Sign of One-Soul, Spirit, Mind, Matter
Free League-Mind, Soul, Spirit, Matter
Mercykillers-Matter, Soul, Spirit, Mind
Revolutionary League-Soul, Mind, Matter, Spirit
Believers of the Source-Spirit, Soul, Mind, Matter
Transcendent Order-Spirit, Matter, Soul, Mind
Xaositects-Soul, Spirit, Matter, Mind

Sun, 2010-07-25 11:43
#7
sciborg2
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Re: The Four Ways Of Knowing

Really cool, really insightful ideas here. Would have to think about this before saying more, but the break down of "knowing" is great stuff.

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Mon, 2010-07-26 02:30
#8
Yemeth
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Re: The Four Ways Of Knowing

sciborg2 wrote:
Really cool, really insightful ideas here. Would have to think about this before saying more, but the break down of "knowing" is great stuff.

Welcome aboard sciborg2.any of your insight would be appreciated

Mon, 2010-07-26 04:09
#9
Yemeth
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Re: The Four Ways Of Knowing

Changed the archetypes of matter and mind to something more apropriate.

The Challenger can be a warrior or a hero and sounds more action oriented so it fits perfectly with the Matter domain.

The Thinker is a more generic term used for a philosopher and it fits better for the more intellectual factions like the Guvners and the skeptics like the Indeps.

The Shaman archetype stays as it is because it seems to fit with all the soul factions.Shamans are seers,occultists,tricksters.The Mystic also says the same.

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