Apparently they're not just taking the axe to the Planes... the Forgotten Realms setting is getting a MAJOR overhaul, with elements like the Dragonborn being given their own new region and Mystra dead, plus the campaign moved forward nearly 100 years!!! What are currently active characters supposed to do? Take a nap like Rip Van Winkle and "wake up" in the new setting?!? Now I HOPE they won't revive Greyhawk... It'd get the same treatment, no doubt! I can't imagine that Ed Greenwood is too pleased with what they've done to his baby...
Forgotten Realms butchered
Fri, 2008-03-07 12:58
#1
Forgotten Realms butchered
Fri, 2008-03-07 14:55
#3
Forgotten Realms butchered
I don't suppose there's any news that Elminster finally kicked the bucket?
We're not that lucky.
On the other hand... quick, gather all the Sign of One you can and wish really hard!
Fri, 2008-03-07 20:11
#4
Forgotten Realms butchered
On a more serious note: If you want your part to skip the next hundred years, put them up against a gorgon and petrify the lot of them. then have them be turned back when you want them on the scene, just make sure that they are in a secluded place, like underground, so they don't suffer the elements.
Actually, it might be hard to make that work, since massive, nation sized chunks of geography are apparently being completely remade into fantastical, illogical, and physics-defying 'fantasy terrain.' In a sense, they're importing big planar chunks into Toril.
The apparent provision is that there will be special portals, which will allow players to jump forward in time, but it's still going to be a mess, especially with anyone with high-level PCs who have some sort of political role.
As for Elminster not being dead, well, I think we can take some solace in that some of the other Chosen of Mystra are supposedly being offed. One Elminster is much less of a problem than the ten or so chosen that had previously being floating about.
Fri, 2008-03-07 20:48
#5
Forgotten Realms butchered
What are currently active characters supposed to do?
They're supposed to keep playing 3rd edition. WotC recommends you don't convert existing characters into 4e.
Speaking of dead, I don't suppose there's any news that Elminster finally kicked the bucket?
No, but he can't do magic anymore.
Fri, 2008-03-07 21:59
#6
Forgotten Realms butchered
On a more serious note: If you want your part to skip the next hundred years, put them up against a gorgon and petrify the lot of them. then have them be turned back when you want them on the scene, just make sure that they are in a secluded place, like underground, so they don't suffer the elements.
Actually, it might be hard to make that work, since massive, nation sized chunks of geography are apparently being completely remade into fantastical, illogical, and physics-defying 'fantasy terrain.' In a sense, they're importing big planar chunks into Toril.
Ha! In Shadows of Undertide you get petrified and the area you are starts floating.
Sat, 2008-03-08 02:42
#7
Forgotten Realms butchered
Actually, it might be hard to make that work, since massive, nation sized chunks of geography are apparently being completely remade into fantastical, illogical, and physics-defying 'fantasy terrain.'
Sounds like genuine PS material to me
Sat, 2008-03-08 12:23
#8
Forgotten Realms butchered
Actually, it might be hard to make that work, since massive, nation sized chunks of geography are apparently being completely remade into fantastical, illogical, and physics-defying 'fantasy terrain.'
Sounds like genuine PS material to meI notice that there is no mention whatsoever of the fates of Elminster, The Simbul, Halaster, Szass Tam or Larloch. The first two were Chosen of Mystra, which among other things made them un-aging.
Another thing that puzzles me about all this is that Mystryl/Mystra has died at least twice already and came back both times (resurrection then replacement). So... why does her dying this time around destroy the entire Weave? It just makes no sense (much like the rest of 4th edition).
-420
Sat, 2008-03-08 13:03
#9
Forgotten Realms butchered
There's actually been some discussion of Elminster's fate here.
Elminster is "afraid to use his magic now, not only because of the effects of the Spell Plague, but also because he's absorbed the memories of a number of powerful beings who tend to take over his mind when he attempts to use magic."
I'm guessing Halaster is one of them.
The rationale for the Spellplague is that supposedly Shar figured out a way to kill Mystra that would prevent her from immediately reforming like she did the last two times. Which is really more hand-waving than a proper rationale, but they at least thought about the subject.
Sat, 2008-03-08 15:45
#10
other settings
The gods only know what their other campaign settings (if any) will look like. I assume continued support of Ebberon since the folks at WOTC seem to be enamoured of it, but it might get an FR-style overhaul... have any other settings be anounced, beyond the generic-but-not-really "World" featured in the core rulebooks?
Sat, 2008-03-08 17:37
#11
Forgotten Realms butchered
The gods only know what their other campaign settings (if any) will look like. I assume continued support of Ebberon since the folks at WOTC seem to be enamoured of it, but it might get an FR-style overhaul... have any other settings be anounced, beyond the generic-but-not-really "World" featured in the core rulebooks?
Eberron's planes will be reimagined somewhat to fit with the 4e planar scheme, from what I've heard.
They say that all campaign settings are "on the table," but that the Hollow World and Savage Coast settings (which are sub-regions in the Mystara setting) are unlikely. Greyhawk is "on the table." The plan is to release one campaign setting every year, but not to provide much (or any) support for them beyond the initial setting book. They want people to buy the campaign setting they want and then play in it using generic adventures and supplements, avoiding "mini-bookshelves" of sourcebooks for a specific setting.
The Forgotten Realms will be released this year, Eberron next year, and they haven't yet announced what setting is planned for 2010.
Sat, 2008-03-08 17:40
#12
Forgotten Realms butchered
plus the campaign moved forward nearly 100 years!!!
Maybe I'm doing the math wrong but:
3rd Edition FRCS Began: Year of Wild Magic (1372 DR)
Mystra Dies/Spellplauge Begins: Year of Blue Fire (1385 DR)
4th Edition FRCS Begins: Year of Silent Death (1395 DR)
That's only 23 years.
-420
Sat, 2008-03-08 18:12
#13
Forgotten Realms butchered
4th edition FR actually begins in the Year of the Ageless One, 1479 DR.
The Year of Silent Death is the earliest year after the Spellplague that they recommend playing in if you prefer a standard magic level (the "Wailing Years" between the Year of Blue Fire and the Year of Silent Death are plagued by wild magic and dead magic). However, it is not the year the 4e FRCS starts.
Sat, 2008-03-08 18:30
#14
Forgotten Realms butchered
Ooo, missed that first one. All the info I had was from the second article.
Thanks for the link!
-420
EDIT: So how does Elminster survive all that time without the Chosen of Mystra immortality or the use of magic?
Sat, 2008-03-08 18:59
#15
Forgotten Realms butchered
So how does Elminster survive all that time without the Chosen of Mystra immortality or the use of magic?
This is an even bigger question if there were long periods of dead magic. Considering that magic was keeping him alive for so long, even before Mystra's death, wouldn't any lack of magic like that just make him keel over and die?
Sat, 2008-03-08 21:27
#16
Forgotten Realms butchered
It's 4e--don't think too hard. You might hurt the setting writer's feelings.
Sun, 2008-03-09 00:23
#17
Forgotten Realms butchered
This is an even bigger question if there were long periods of dead magic. Considering that magic was keeping him alive for so long, even before Mystra's death, wouldn't any lack of magic like that just make him keel over and die?
Depends on how the magic kept him alive. If it just suspended the aging process, I'd kind of expect him to just start aging again from where he left off. He probably lost some "years" through elixers of youth or the like somewhere along the line. Depending on what his physical age was, he could have made it 23 years without any further intervention.
But yeah, it seems like they sort of shoehorned the setting into 4th ed's framework. The transition comes with a lot of changes that don't seem necessary in the strict sense.
Sun, 2008-03-09 12:09
#18
Forgotten Realms butchered
Depends on how the magic kept him alive. If it just suspended the aging process, I'd kind of expect him to just start aging again from where he left off.
I think you're right on the money with this theory.
From the 3rd edition Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (pg. 247):
Chosen of Mystra
...
Immunities (Ex): The Chosen are immune to aging, disease, disintegration, and poison. They have no need to sleep (although they must rest normally in order to be able to prepare spells.)
...
Immunities (Ex): The Chosen are immune to aging, disease, disintegration, and poison. They have no need to sleep (although they must rest normally in order to be able to prepare spells.)
Depending on what his physical age was, he could have made it 23 years without any further intervention.
More like 100 years, as Rip pointed out.
-420
Sun, 2008-03-09 14:03
#19
Forgotten Realms butchered
I hope they get completely rid of the horrible imitations of non-European settings, i.e., Maztica, and the quasi-Mongol one. (The historical Mongols, Aztecs, etc., are fun to study, but 2e D&D cartoon-ized those civilizations quite disgustingly.)
Sun, 2008-03-09 14:23
#20
Forgotten Realms butchered
More like 100 years, as Rip pointed out.
But after the Year of Silent Death, presumedly he could have found access to other anti-aging magics. He might have created these himself (he would only have to do so once a decade or so, which isn't so much even if he fears to use magic - perhaps he goes mad every ten years as other personalities take over his body and help him create his potions of longevity), or perhaps he found them (like a naturally-occurring fountain of youth) or has others make them for him.
He would have lost his Chosen status in 1385 DR, then, and been able to start using other age-retarding magics as early as 1395 DR, which is only ten years. That assumes he doesn't still have a spark of dead Mystra dwelling inside him and keeping him alive. Mystra might be one of the "voices inside his head" that he fears.
Or maybe he's a lich now, or a Prolonger.
Sun, 2008-03-09 14:46
#21
Forgotten Realms butchered
I hope they get completely rid of the horrible imitations of non-European settings, i.e., Maztica, and the quasi-Mongol one. (The historical Mongols, Aztecs, etc., are fun to study, but 2e D&D cartoon-ized those civilizations quite disgustingly.)
How are they any worse than the cartoon-ized versions of everything else in Faerun?
Sun, 2008-03-09 16:30
#22
Forgotten Realms butchered
He would have lost his Chosen status in 1385 DR, then, and been able to start using other age-retarding magics as early as 1395 DR, which is only ten years. That assumes he doesn't still have a spark of dead Mystra dwelling inside him and keeping him alive. Mystra might be one of the "voices inside his head" that he fears.
Or maybe he's a lich now, or a Prolonger.
Somehow I think that some of the Epic Destinies (the 4e equivalent of epic-level prestige classes) will have some ability that makes a character immune to aging, in addition to other abilities with triggers like "once per day when you die..."
Of course all this stinks of warping the story to fit the mechanics, instead of the other way around like it should be.
Sun, 2008-03-09 18:56
#23
Forgotten Realms butchered
Mystras dead? I'm sure Asmodeus is happy...
Speaking of dead, I don't suppose there's any news that Elminster finally kicked the bucket? Or is that too much to hope for?
On a more serious note: If you want your part to skip the next hundred years, put them up against a gorgon and petrify the lot of them. then have them be turned back when you want them on the scene, just make sure that they are in a secluded place, like underground, so they don't suffer the elements.
Nope, but he IS much subdued in 4E, thanks to the fact that he is completely insane because of Mystra's death. He is scared to cast spells, because when he does, the voices in his head threaten to overwhelm him and take over.
Sun, 2008-03-09 18:56
#24
Forgotten Realms butchered
Zimrazim wrote:
I hope they get completely rid of the horrible imitations of non-European settings, i.e., Maztica, and the quasi-Mongol one. (The historical Mongols, Aztecs, etc., are fun to study, but 2e D&D cartoon-ized those civilizations quite disgustingly.)
How are they any worse than the cartoon-ized versions of everything else in Faerun?
A lot actually, in some ways. Neither Maztica or the Hordelands, or the oriental region for that matter, where made to properly incorporate fantasy elements. The Hordelands is basically full of neo-historical Mongols, without incorporating what prevalent magic might do to their society, what prevalent monsters would do to their society or anything like that, and Maztica largely the same way. The rest of the realms at least attempted to integrate this stuff, but those areas didn't and as a result they really, really, don't fit the Realms.
Sun, 2008-03-09 20:46
#25
Forgotten Realms butchered
That assumes he doesn't still have a spark of dead Mystra dwelling inside him and keeping him alive. Mystra might be one of the "voices inside his head" that he fears.
Shh, that's suppose to be a secret!
*Imagines WotC writers reading this and panicking.*
Seems to me it would be reasonable to assume that all of the Chosen carried a spark or small aspect of Mystra. That would explain the immortality and provide a nice back-up plan in case of another Mystra death.
-420
Sun, 2008-03-09 21:01
#26
Forgotten Realms butchered
I think Kara-Tur will probably still be around, though I could see it being changed into something that cashes in on more recent Wu Xia and other Asian cinema. Might not necessarily be like Legend of Zu (that's Epic level stuff, when you consider that all the main characters in that film are Godlings) but maybe more like Hero or House of Flying Daggers.
Sun, 2008-03-09 21:15
#27
Forgotten Realms butchered
I know! Elminster will become Mystra!
If you think about it, it's not that far off. I mean, he has been a woman before.
Sun, 2008-03-09 22:44
#28
Forgotten Realms butchered
Y'know, Mystryl was CN, then died and became LN Mystra, then died and became NG Mystra. Y'know what that means? We're due for an NE Mystra.
Sun, 2008-03-09 22:48
#29
Forgotten Realms butchered
I know! Elminster will become Mystra!
If you think about it, it's not that far off. I mean, he has been a woman before.
Mystra kinda looks like a man anyway.
Mon, 2008-03-10 02:54
#30
Forgotten Realms butchered
Y'know, Mystryl was CN, then died and became LN Mystra, then died and became NG Mystra. Y'know what that means? We're due for an NE Mystra.
Or any other alignment... Not that it matters since 4E either dumbed down or removed alignment.
Thu, 2008-03-20 06:39
#31
Forgotten Realms butchered
It is still not logical at all... Mystra was not the goddess of everything magic on Toril, she was the goddess of magic to the human in faerun. According to some canon material (novels, if I recall), the elfs were still able to cast spells during the time of troubles, thanks to Corelon Larthian being a god of magic. So then why does the whole fabric of magic break down when only she dies.
Well, no surprise this is happening. Wizard is a part of Hasbro, the society who produces Action Man, the guy who saves the world with his super-nuclear-action-skate-board. Really, nothing to be surprised..
Mystras dead? I'm sure Asmodeus is happy...
Speaking of dead, I don't suppose there's any news that Elminster finally kicked the bucket? Or is that too much to hope for?
On a more serious note: If you want your part to skip the next hundred years, put them up against a gorgon and petrify the lot of them. then have them be turned back when you want them on the scene, just make sure that they are in a secluded place, like underground, so they don't suffer the elements.