Would anybody be willing to give a brief review of FCII? I've read some here and there, but none were from the perspective of a PS fan, so I have no idea if I would be useful or not.
Fiendish Codex II any good?
Wed, 2007-01-03 07:47
#1
Fiendish Codex II any good?
Wed, 2007-01-03 19:03
#3
Fiendish Codex II any good?
I gotta agree the whole 6th layer being taken over again thing threw me for a loop. Faustian contracts and the new devils were neat. Is the pact primeval canon though I've never heard of it till that?
Wed, 2007-01-03 19:18
#4
Fiendish Codex II any good?
I still don't have that book, so I was wondering... who really own's the 6th layer (as even the Baatezu would find Paris Hilton distasteful). And what's the pact primeval?
Wed, 2007-01-03 19:28
#5
Fiendish Codex II any good?
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that the Pact Primeval is new (kind of ironic really).
It's basically a contract between Asmodeus and the Lawful gods which allows the Baatezu to torture corrupt souls and to draw power from this torture.
Glasya (Asmodeus' daughter) is now in charge of the 6th and is acting all party girl along with her BFF Fierna. The place has had some pretty extreme renovations - it's now mostly flat and very organic - mostly comprised of the now giant sized remains of the Hag countess.
Thu, 2007-01-04 12:51
#6
Fiendish Codex II any good?
yeah the 6th's makeover is realllly weird. Thing is they say it just sorta happened. Glasya did'nt cause the hag to explode she just did...
So pact primeval is a new creation story okay just double checking to make sure.
Thu, 2007-01-04 18:12
#7
Fiendish Codex II any good?
Okay, Pact Primeval sounds normal enough. Different books always gave different reasons for the devil's need for souls, the most notable of which was always the continuation of their race. Their relationship with the LE gods was, as far as I remember, tentatively peaceful, as neither really felt like wasting their energies and risking their lives in war against the other. Their was always a lot of scheming, which I hope the Pact Primeval doesn't negate (not that I'd add it to my campaign if it did).
The change in the 6th layer sounds awful. I mean, terrible. Granted, a non-Baatezu ruling a layer of hell was odd to begin with, but the current description really does sound like somebody watched too many episodes of The Simple Life and later, when trying to come up with a new archevil, could think of only one thing. Fitting, I agree, but I highly doubt that WotC gave any reason for Asmodeus trusting his daughter enough to do this, whereas he usually always tried to keep her in check (such as giving her to the Erynies to rule over, thus keeping her busy enough to keep out of trouble) or for why the hilly terrain, which was mountainous even during the time of the Ancient Baatorians (which are thought to remain in certain cavern systems in the hills), is suddenly flat except for the suddenly colossal body of the previous ruler. I can't wait to read the reason for that!
Thu, 2007-01-04 18:55
#8
Fiendish Codex II any good?
he usually always tried to keep her in check (such as giving her to the Erynies to rule over
I never liked that bit (from Guide to Hell). The erinyes should mostly be under the control of the Ministry of Mortal Relations. Having Glasya rule them gives Furcas much less to do. Besides, it makes Glasya too one-dimensional (give the female devil charge over other female devils - so her whole personality revolves around her gender).
Making her a Lord of the Nine certainly wasn't the only way to make her more interesting, but I think - taken alone - it's at least an improvement. It's an improvement for Glasya, that is, not necesarily an improvement for Malbolge or the Hag Countess.
or for why the hilly terrain, which was mountainous even during the time of the Ancient Baatorians (which are thought to remain in certain cavern systems in the hills), is suddenly flat except for the suddenly colossal body of the previous ruler. I can't wait to read the reason for that!
There isn't any reason given. But I don't a problem with it, personally; the layer should be malleable enough to take any form its ruler wills. We don't know for sure that Malbolge was mountainous during the time of the ancient Baatorians; we know only that caverns that existed in those days are still beneath the layer in the present. This is must still be true, whether the terrain is slanted or flat.
I'm not necessarily advocating the Fiendish Codex II changes, but those particular bits (getting rid of Glasya's association with erinyes, and changing the look of Malboge) I have no problem with.
Thu, 2007-01-04 20:28
#9
Fiendish Codex II any good?
Their relationship with the LE gods was, as far as I remember, tentatively peaceful, as neither really felt like wasting their energies and risking their lives in war against the other.
Actually the pact is with all the Lawful powers (with emphasis on the good ones)
I highly doubt that WotC gave any reason for Asmodeus trusting his daughter enough to do this, whereas he usually always tried to keep her in check
They kind of gloss over the how and why but they state that father and daughter have gotten over their differences. The most likely explanation I've found for why she's in charge was in an interview over at WotC - one of the writers likes girls with tails *sigh*.
why the hilly terrain, which was mountainous even during the time of the Ancient Baatorians (which are thought to remain in certain cavern systems in the hills), is suddenly flat except for the suddenly colossal body of the previous ruler. I can't wait to read the reason for that!
Basically her body swelled up, exploded and the bits now fill in the gaps so now you've got features like the 'hair forest' and the caverns are the 'Hags guts'.
Oh and the Ancient Baatorians aren’t mentioned once, not even with the nupperibos who are now all just demoted baatezu.
Thu, 2007-01-11 14:24
#10
Fiendish Codex II any good?
Oh and the Ancient Baatorians aren’t mentioned once, not even with the nupperibos who are now all just demoted baatezu.
Don't forget that the Nupperibos new reference point is now "blind-eyes."
Fri, 2007-01-12 23:22
#11
Fiendish Codex II any good?
I just got FCII
I was a little dissapointed with the lack of the Ancient Baatorians, but you would expect the devils to clain Asmodeus "made" Baator. You wouldn't expect any official mention of the nupperibos to claim they were anything but demoted failures.
The Kytons and Jangling Hitter are part of the heirarchy of hell (of course, nobody rocks the boat in Baator). The Abashi are acknowledged to be tied to Tiamat (at times, though they are common enough as encountered servants), but the particulars of their promotions are directly contradicted within the book. As are the rules concerning contact with the river Styx.
So I started thinking....
This is pure Baatezu propaganda. It reveals darks, but it tells more lies. So I started looking a lottle deeper....
On more than one occasion there were mentions of "guardian demons". Now that could be a typo....
The picture of who really rules each layer, especially the first remains hazy. Of course everyone knows who REALLY rules in hell...
Asmodeus "trust" his daughter enough to give her a layer? A little coincidental she's a poisoner and the manner of the former ruler's demise?
The only diety in the pact primeaval that was even mentioned was St. Cuthbert (smear campeign?)
Set's realm in Cania? Barely a mention (the madgod was said to be trying to build his own plane in earlier canon, pyamid-shaped of course)
And, of course, the hordes of the abyss have NEVER invaded baator anywhere besides Avernus. The Styx LEADS to Stygia.
Prapaganda, I tell ya. Screed.
Fri, 2007-01-12 23:26
#12
Fiendish Codex II any good?
I gotta say though, I loved the parts about the pacts and corruption points. I also loved the fact that the document of the Pact Primeval itself is an artifact.
Sat, 2007-01-13 03:56
#13
Fiendish Codex II any good?
Prapaganda, I tell ya. Screed.
That's the conclusion I've come to, and looking at it through the lens of Baatezu propaganda makes a lot more of the book make sense.
It's got some nice stats and some good ideas but prepare to be frustrated by all the changes that they've made to canon I think there's another couple of threads around discussing this as well.
Personally I'm going to keep most of the old flavour text but will take on some of the new stats and ideas presented.
oh, and it seems that Paris Hilton now rules the 6th layer :shock:
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