Favorite cosmologies from different sources

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Rikutatis's picture
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Favorite cosmologies from different sources

I just finished the third and last campaign in a series of interlinked Planescape campaigns I've been DMing for the past several years. The metaplot culminated with the end of the Great Wheel, as it was reset and redesigned. Basically a new cosmology was formed (I might post an article about it at some other point).

So for future campaigns we'll be playing in a new cosmology and now I have to decide how to go about creating it. This thread is just an attempt to discuss favorite cosmologies from different sources (rpg, fantasy books, anime, videogames, etc.).

RPG:

Obviously Planescape is a favorite. But what makes it so great? Moral ambiguity, the wonder of the planes, different takes on old races and themes... but I think what really makes PS stand out is the 'belief is power' theme. It gives the setting a common and recurring theme, some sort of backbone, a personality of its own. So maybe a new cosmology would benefit from some sort of backbone like this, a common theme or guiding principle.

Both Nobilis and Wonderland also offer really interesting cosmologies, especially Wonderland, which is truly unique. But they tend to be more specific to certain themes and less universal. That's not a problem in itself, but for a D&D game I might want to consider a different approach.

Beyond Countless Doorways is a good starting point - more and more I feel inclined to use it. But I will need to add more to it, it lacks that certain characteristic that makes a setting truly unique and special.

Fantasy books:

The Chronicles of Amber, by Roger Zelazny. Simply amazing. To me the Chronicles of Amber is to the fantasy genre what Planescape is to RPGs. Zelazny gives us a really original perspective on the whole law versus chaos struggle as well. But I want to avoid having alignment play any significant role in this new cosmology. I'm a bit tired of it, in all honesty.

The Cthulhu cosmlogy(ies), by H.P. Lovecraft. While I don't consider Lovecraft a very good writer, the cosmologies he developed in his stories are awe inspiring to say the least. Nothing goes quite so deep on the nature of the universe in my opinion. And how disturbing is that nature!

Videogames:

Xenogears/Xenosaga is a favorite in the cosmology department. Some people say the series is an Evangelion clone. But if that's the case, the clone is far more interesting and sophisticated in my opinion. At least as far as story/cosmology is concerned. This is probably the cosmology that influences me the most as a Planescape DM.

Final Fantasy VII, as much as I hate to admit it. But back in the day it really changed the way that I look at fantasy.

Anime:

As much as I love anime, I can't think of any that really stood out mostly for its cosmology.

So... does anyone have any ideas and/or favorite cosmologies to share?

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Re: Favorite cosmologies from different sources

I like the cosmology in the Fullmetal Alchemist anime, with its terrifying gate and mysterious dark entities inside, connecting the two worlds.

The Kabbalistic Tree of Life is fascinating. Jem presented it as a cosmology in this thread: /forum/otz-chaim-a-planar-highway-pathfinder

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Re: Favorite cosmologies from different sources

I've always really dug the Earth-centric, aether-filled-space with Ptolemy's crystal spheres surrounding the planets. With each sphere on a giant gearwork track... It's very pretty and romantic.

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Re: Favorite cosmologies from different sources

Re: Amber - I keep wanting to snag the concept of Trumps from the setting and use them in a Planescape game. It's hard to reconcile them with a level based game though.

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Re: Favorite cosmologies from different sources

I liked the Death Gate Cycle's cosmology, and how it was formed from a single world.

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Re: Favorite cosmologies from different sources

Mage: the Ascension's cosmology, even if it was sometimes hard to get the idea that the other planets of Earth's Solar System were also the Shard Realms of the Spheres of Magick. Yeah I know they passed the idea of those other planets off as nothing but Technocracy propaganda. And had it where a Dreamspeaker Shaman could breathe just fine out there, but a Void Engineer Space Marine needed an environment suit.

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Re: Favorite cosmologies from different sources

Re: Death Gate Cycle. I wonder what happened to the other worlds in the solar system? The way the Wave works, an alteration in one place can have unpredicted repercussions everywhere else. Plus, there seems to be so much more mass in the five worlds of the Death Gate system (counting the Nexus) than could be explained with the single originating world. And all of their energy seems to come from Pryan's four suns. And Pyran is a Dyson sphere, so I wonder if the Sartyn cannibalized the sun to help make Pryan?

On the other hand, maybe the old sun still exists, and Krynn is orbiting it now.

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Re: Favorite cosmologies from different sources

Wicke wrote:
Re: Amber - I keep wanting to snag the concept of Trumps from the setting and use them in a Planescape game. It's hard to reconcile them with a level based game though.

A set of Trumps would be an astonishingly powerful item in a Planescape game -- reliable interplanar communication and site-to-site travel in portable form! -- so much so that I'd rate one as an artifact if the players were able to use them. Amber and the Courts as secret layers of Mechanus and Limbo would work great as a source for the high-powered royals in an epic-level game.

(I have absolutely no experience with the AD&D module that actually used the Amberites! So no clue what the canonical information on them was there.)

Re: cosmologies. As rip kindly noted above, I enjoy the Pathfinder setting as well as various real-world mysticisms.

Various Buddhist traditions have amalgamated quite a complex structure of parallel worlds organized by the progression of souls birthed therein along the cycle of reincarnation, ranging from the hells up to the material world, up to the worlds of the devas and anagamins and finally the true world those that have achieved final enlightenment. The Sahasra cosmology even mentions alternate material worlds, billions of them, organized into "chiliocosms." There is even a version of elemental planes -- the "foundations of the earth" are, in order, a layer of golden earth, a layer of water, and a layer of wind. I have never seen an RPG cosmology based on this arrangement but it would be awesome.

Much of my original exposure to the Tree of Life was through Ken Hite's Cabal setting for the GURPS system. Cabal itself has a fine multiplanar cosmology, but it would be a radical departure from Planescape. Its "material," "ethereal" and "astral" planes are radically different from D&D's! (Basically, its material could be the Prime easily enough, but its ethereal, Yetzirah, would be more like the D&D Astral, and its Astral, Briah, would be more like the Outer Planes. Atziluth would be Chronias, except people claim to have come back from there.) Also, the decans are pervasive throughout reality, so that there ethereal and astral manifestations of the elemental energies as well as other concepts like Anoster (rest, satiation), Phthenoth (healing), or Mardero (rebellion).

I find In Nomine interesting, and have GMed a couple campaigns of it. It's originally a modern game of angels-vs-demons. I proposed on these boards a version of the game that could be set Planescape-style, with the various Archangels and Demon Princes making their cases on various planes, and sponsoring cleric orders devoted to principles (their Words) rather than themselves.

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Re: Favorite cosmologies from different sources

I don't think there was an AD&D module involving Zelazny's Chronicles of Amber. There was a OD&D module called Castle Amber, but was actually based on the stories of Clark Ashton Smith rather than Zelazny.

I've always liked the OD&D cosmology, by the way. Rather than being divided into good and evil, the primary forces in contention with their (innumerable) Outer Planes are Entropy, Matter, Thought, Time, and Energy.

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Re: Favorite cosmologies from different sources

Ah, I didn't know -- just saw the name, was always intrigued by the notion.

Quote:
I've always liked the OD&D cosmology, by the way. Rather than being divided into good and evil, the primary forces in contention with their (innumerable) Outer Planes are Entropy, Matter, Thought, Time, and Energy.

Interesting. Any freely available extensive source material? I know very little about the OD&D cosmology.

We've twice jacked Planescape forward a version, but the fact that the first one there is Entropy gives me the notion of reversing course -- could the 15 factions fit into selections of emphases from among the five primary forces? There are 15 ways to pick two elements from a selection of six, so throw in "no other" as a choice and have five of them focus exclusively on one. Some of them you have to tweak their focus a little, but I think these fit reasonably well:

Single-issue factions:

Entropy: The Doomguard, of course. Entropy as the ruling force of the Multiverse.

Matter: the Takers. What else matters but cold, hard stuff?

Thought: Signers. There is nothing but thought.

Time: The Bleak Cabal. Time goes on. That is all.

Energy: The Transcendent Order. Action without thought or pause.

("double-none": the Clueless, supposedly.)

Dual-Force philosophies:

Entropy-Matter: The Dustmen. This world is flesh, not soul, and dead flesh at that.

Entropy-Thought: The Anarchists. All systems of thought break down eventually.

Entropy-Time: Indeps. You let us be, we'll figure out our own path with enough time.

Entropy-Energy: Xaositects. The world is, think not, all things in motion, disorder creates anew.

Matter-Thought: The Society of Sensation. Learn about all things.

Matter-Time: Harmonium. The clockwork ticks, everything is orderly and rhythmical. The heavens sing in harmony with the earth.

Matter-Energy: The Athar. Thought, time, entropy, all these things arise from the natural components of existence. Gods too.

Thought-Time: The Fraternity of Order. Understanding encompasses the pattern of events, and can affect it.

Thought-Energy: The Mercykillers. Every desire, every sin and virtue, gives rise to its just reward and punishment.

Time-Energy: Godsmen. In the beginning was the Source, and as time goes on the cycle purifies everything.

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ripvanwormer wrote:
Re: Death Gate Cycle. I wonder what happened to the other worlds in the solar system? The way the Wave works, an alteration in one place can have unpredicted repercussions everywhere else. Plus, there seems to be so much more mass in the five worlds of the Death Gate system (counting the Nexus) than could be explained with the single originating world. And all of their energy seems to come from Pryan's four suns. And Pyran is a Dyson sphere, so I wonder if the Sartyn cannibalized the sun to help make Pryan?

On the other hand, maybe the old sun still exists, and Krynn is orbiting it now.

Perhaps the Wave was satisfied with a sort of balance between the four worlds. I know this might be considered reaching, but there is something there beyond just the four elements.

Pryan is a world of constant heat and energy, but Abarrach is cold and dying. The earth world was supposed to receive energy from Pryan, but never did. Chelestra is a world of water, but on Arianus, water is an extremely precious commodity. It's been over 10 years since I last read Serpent Mage, so I don't remember it too well. I have, however, read the first three books in the past couple months, and Serpent Mag is next on the list.

The other thing I was thinking is perhaps the failure of the Sartans' plan was the Wave correcting the Sundering. The Sartan had good intentions, but they'd had good intentions before and those good intentions brought the Patryn into being. Then with the Patryn dying in the Labyrinth, the Sartan start to die off, too. Some of it is by their own doing -- there is a strong suggestion that the necromancy on Abarrach is responsible for the near-complete extinction of the Sartan that were sleeping in the Kicksey-Winsey. But the rest is the Wave correcting for the presence of the Patryn or the very fact that the Sartan sundered the world to begin with.

As I recall, Serpent Mage answers a lot of questions about what happened to the Sartan on Pryan, so I'll have to re-read that one soon.

I do like the possibilities granted by Death's Gate, the Nexus, and the Seventh Gate. I'll have to re-read the last 3 books again, but I seem to recall there is the possibility of worlds beyond the four. The existence of the Nexus certainly suggests there's a lot more out there.

And it would be interesting to see what (if anything) Weis would say about the other planets. I don't think the sun was cannibalized -- Arianus has its own perpetual light that was never identified that I can recall. Though I seem to remember Chelestra's sun is in the center? In any case, I'd be more inclined to think the Sartan cannibalized Earth's core to make Pryan's suns.

I'm just rambling now so I'll cut for some kind of brevity.

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Re: Favorite cosmologies from different sources

I once ran a game inpsired in part by Zelazny's chaos vs law model. I had the game set in an Astral plane with Amber at one end and Chaos at the other - Sigil smack dab in the center as a neutral trading post.

The setting was very exploraion/trade centric, where people would ply the length of the Aether, popping in and out of the planes that ran its length to trade goods. As they navigated close to chaos the paths became less reliable and aether storms/similar dangers were far more common ... but the danger, naturally, made the potential for profit higher. As one moved closer to the law side things became more reliable, but eventually one ran into dangers of uniformity.

This provided for exploration of many varied prime planes with a reason to do so. The elemental planes surrounded the aether like the shell of an egg, occasionally eating through the barrier and causing distortions in the astral "yolk".

Continuing the egg methaphor, what we'd know as the "outer planes" swelled and grew at the center of the aether, absorbing the collected beliefs of all those who's worlds touched the aetheric realm.

Unfortunately, like many of my games, it got sidetracked a few weeks in and never got any more developed than that.
(I'm a victim of my own wild imagination, which has a problem settling in one place for long)

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Re: Favorite cosmologies from different sources

One detail I left out - to be clearer, in the game, traders plied the Astral in specially designed ships which ran off of something called a "probability drive" - when one was searching for a certain type of location they would program it into the system and the drive would attempt to map a path to what they were looking for .... the more probable planes were easier to find closer to Amber, while the less probable were potentially found on the choas end.

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Re: Favorite cosmologies from different sources

The cosmology in the anime/manga Angel Sanctuary is interesting, I think. Angels conquering Hell, with its sympathetic indigenous demons.

But I can't believe I forgot the DC Vertigo/Sandman/Books of Magic cosmology. With Faerie, Asgard, the realms of Dream, Destiny, Desire, etc., that mysterious necropolis, Hell, the Silver City, GemWorld, the Inn at Worlds' End, and all kinds of neat things. And there were some very cool things in the Lucifer part of that cosmology too, like fragile lattice-worlds far beyond the known planes.

The comic Fables also has an interesting cosmology, with thousands of worlds based on the various worlds of fiction and folklore connected by gates, through which a despotic Emperor has conquered hundreds of them.

And yes, Jem, I think those Sphere-Faction pairings work very well.

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Re: Favorite cosmologies from different sources

I always liked the cosmology of the Legend of the Five Rings rpg - very oriental, but interesting and full of their own flavor.

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Re: Favorite cosmologies from different sources

Wicke wrote:
Re: Amber - I keep wanting to snag the concept of Trumps from the setting and use them in a Planescape game. It's hard to reconcile them with a level based game though.

If I were to add the Trumps to a Planescape game, I would probably avoid trying to fit the entire Amber cosmology in the Great Wheel. Maybe something like this:

The Serpent is a cosmic entity shrouded in mystery. Not much is known about its true purpose and origins. Some believe the Serpent is the representation of raw Chaos and the forces of creation, while others claim that it is Magic instead that this entity personifies. A few others whisper that the Serpent is nothing more than feverish dreams and nightmares of a mad god of evil.

One thing is certain though - the Serpent has a son. His name is Dworkin and he is one of the most formidable wizards to ever walk the planes.

Aeons ago Dworkin was approached by another cosmic entity, the Unicorn. Something changed and Dworkin's loyalty shifted. He stole one of the Serpent's eyes and fled with the Unicorn to remote regions of the Multiverse.

Using the incommensurable power of the Serpent's Eye and the knowledge he gained from the Unicorn, Dworkin created the magical artifacts known as Trumps.

Trump Deck (major artifact):

- Each trump in a deck is a tarot like card that depicts either a person or a location.

- One can use a trump to do one of the following: scry the target location/person, open a two-way portal (as per the 9th level spell) to the target location/person, and in the case of a trump of a sentient being, one can mentally communicate with that being by concentrating on the trump.

- Each activation of a trump (regardless of how it is being used) requires a Concentration check. The DC depends on how far the target location/person is from the character using the trump. Someone in the Inner Planes with a trump of one of the Outer Planes would need to roll a 35 in order to activate the trump. The DC would be 30 for the Astral, 25 for the Material, 20 for the Etheral and 15 for the Inner Planes.

- There are rumors of trump masters who can use trumps in different (and dangerous) ways. It is said that Dworkin could mentally assault someone by simply concentrating on his trump for example.

Just an idea.

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