Fast-Forward a Few Hundred Years...

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Tequila Sunrise's picture
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Fast-Forward a Few Hundred Years...

What do the factions look like, assuming the module-which-must-not-be-named never happens?

The fifteen factions published are just a snapshot in Sigil's long history, and I imagine it to be a snapshot of a brief and unstable time, even without the Faction War. Some of the factions don't look viable for any great length of years, while there's at least one obvious 'job opening' for some new faction to fill:

The Athars' 'job' in Sigil is to keep an eye on the temples, and make sure none of them get too uppity and powerful. Isn't it odd that there's no faction to keep an eye on the mages to make sure there isn't a repeat of the Incantifer incident? (Not that the Lady couldn't maze another faction of overreaching mages, but the purpose of the factions is her not having to micro-manage things.)

On the other hand, there are a couple of factions with awfully similar philosophies. If the Xaositects were subsumed by the Bleak Cabal and became a sect of said faction, would anyone notice? Both factions essentially say "There is no order or purpose to it all." The chief difference seems to be "...so find your own meaning" vs. "omg crzy funzy xaos is lol!" ('Cause you know if Sigil had cell phones, Xaositects would be the masters of incomprehensible text-speak. Eye-wink )

Similarly, if the Mercykillers were subsumed by the Harmonium, would anyone be surprised? Some might call it a shame if Sigil didn't have its Trifecta of Lawful Factions to demonstrate the Rule of Three. But I'm sure there's a more distinct philosophy out there suited to running Sigil's prison.

Finally, there are a few factions that just don't seem like they can make the long haul. Their philosophies are weak, and their emotional appeal is limited to very small percentages of the population. The Doomguard might survive as a crazy fringe group of...the Bleak Cabal maybe? All the Dustmen will probably eventually 'ascend' to undeath, or...grow out of their black nail polish, their many body piercings, and their goth rock, I guess. (I kid, I kid. Sort of.) And the Revolutionary League...well, I guess anarchism will never truly die in a place like Sigil. But really, are a few extremists without a real philosophy enough to call a Faction? (Even by us, Sigil's omniscient-perspective viewer?)

So, opinions? Ideas? I remember seeing an on-site list of lore, including fan made factions, but I can't seem to find it. I'm thinking of actually following thru with these lines of thought for my own campaign, so I'd appreciate pointers.

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Re: Fast-Forward a Few Hundred Years...

Well, I played in the module-which-must-not-be-named and in our version the factions didn't have to leave. IMO going that far in the future kills most of the NPC's, a problem even bigger than the 4th edition FR. Might as well throw out the old books about Sigil. Like you, once I did consider changing the factions, but now I think most other philosophies can exist within them.

Some factions do appear too extreme to attract large number of people, but I think they started based the influence of particular outer planes, the Anarchists appeared as a reaction to the oppression in Carceri, or Baator. Xaositects exist cause the force of Chaos is real in the planes, it has a purpose, different than the Bleakers. I see more similarities between the Indeps and the Bleak Cabal. The Destroyers fraction of the Doomguard is popular cause their overt show of destructive power, but it's the Regulators that gain real influence after the Destroyers pass. Same symbiotic relationship is in the Mercykillers, makes sense, both would lose a lot of influence without each other. Post-Faction War groups make less sense to me, the Ring-Givers should be a sect.

Concerning fan made factions, I usually have five additional, so it's a d20 roll. One of them is Teknists, they are opposite to the Incanterium on the technology-magic axis. Mentioned in this thread /forum/additional-sects-or-factions

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Re: Fast-Forward a Few Hundred Years...

Check out the Urban Planescape-Project in the forums. Somewhere around pages 4 and 5 there are several threads concerning modern Sensates, Harmonium etc.
/forums/planewalker-projects/past-projects/urb...

I guess it depends on how far to the future you want to go and how the effect
of industrialization/technology is felt on the planes.
If you take the real world as a reference point, it seems logical that the Communals would be a strong force in an industrialized Sigil, as would be the Fated.

In a very modern Planescape Setting ecologial sects like the Verdant Guild could rise to bigger prominence.

Tequila Sunrise's picture
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Re: Fast-Forward a Few Hundred Years...

cromlich wrote:
Well, I played in the module-which-must-not-be-named and in our version the factions didn't have to leave.
True, no DM is bound to follow the FW module to its written conclusion. Besides as I understand it, there was supposed to be a follow-up module that returned the factions to Sigil, but then TSR tanked.

cromlich wrote:
IMO going that far in the future kills most of the NPC's, a problem even bigger than the 4th edition FR.
To be honest, I'm thinking of this as a parallel multiverse Sigil that just happens to satisfy my sense of aesthetics rather than 'Sigil a few hundred years later.' 'Cause you're right; why throw away all those NPCs? My futuristic Sigil talk was just a way to more easily describe why and how I want to change the factions.

cromlich wrote:
I see more similarities between the Indeps and the Bleak Cabal.
Hm, good point. I wouldn't say they're more similar than the Chaosmen and the Bleakers, but the Indeps do seem kinda redundant. Especially considering their lack of official role in Sigil.

cromlich wrote:
Concerning fan made factions, I usually have five additional, so it's a d20 roll. One of them is Teknists, they are opposite to the Incanterium on the technology-magic axis. Mentioned in this thread /forum/additional-sects-or-factions
Thanks for the link, it's given me a few great ideas!

(Heh, never thought of rolling a d20 for Nameless NPC #737's faction affiliation.)

Tequila Sunrise's picture
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Re: Fast-Forward a Few Hundred Years...

KnightOfDecay wrote:
Check out the Urban Planescape-Project in the forums. Somewhere around pages 4 and 5 there are several threads concerning modern Sensates, Harmonium etc.
They're actually on the first page, but I still can't make much sense of UPS. The explanatory thread is probably in there somewhere, but I'm not feeling that motivated. Eye-wink

KnightOfDecay wrote:
I guess it depends on how far to the future you want to go and how the effect of industrialization/technology is felt on the planes. If you take the real world as a reference point, it seems logical that the Communals would be a strong force in an industrialized Sigil, as would be the Fated.
Well like I mentioned in the previous post, this little project of mine isn't really about advancing the timeline. (And even if it was, I prefer my D&D to remain in technological stasis. So industry wouldn't be a factor in my Sigil anyway.)

KnightOfDecay wrote:
In a very modern Planescape Setting ecologial sects like the Verdant Guild could rise to bigger prominence.
Heck, even in traditional Sigil, wouldn't it be interesting to have a faction of neo-druids who maintain a city park and keep Sigil's razorvine in check? (Of course, sometimes they 'forget' to trim the vines near the homes of folks who speak too loudly for 'modernizing' the park.)

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Re: Fast-Forward a Few Hundred Years...

Defenders of the Prime - Attempts to prevent/subvert any and all influence from the Planes directed towards the Prime, including influence from the Powers. They're about as successful as the Athar too. They've modeled themselves somewhat after the Eladrin, in that they keep their identities hidden when they're active on a Prime world and leave once their planar status is known. They're known as hunters of both fiends and angels, so they tend to keep quiet about their faction status lest they draw the ire of one of the exemplar races. Some go so far as to adopt another faction as their own to keep up the smokescreen. They've drawn off members of the Athar (or absorbed them entirely), the Anarchs and the Indeps.

Tequila Sunrise's picture
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Re: Fast-Forward a Few Hundred Years...

Hm, interesting. What would the DotP philosophy and civil 'job' within Sigil be?

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Re: Fast-Forward a Few Hundred Years...

For philosophy, how about: The Primes should be allowed to develop according to their own devices. Since the Primes are supposedly what shapes the Planes, the Planes have no right to dictate how the Primes should behave. With that outside influence from the exemplars and Powers, the entire process has been corrupted. The faction wants to see the Great Wheel return to its natural and normal state, as dictated by the desires of the Prime.

In Sigil, publicly, I could see them taking over the role that the Athar act in currently: speaking out against the Gods. In fact, it could be that the current movement grew out of the Athar. They would also act as spies/secret police, keeping tabs on the actions of any exemplars within the city and thwarting any schemes they may be planning.

Additionally, they could seek out misplaced Primes and either try to find them a way back to their homeworld or orient them to the planes. Because of this close interaction, they recruit heavily out of the Clueless, usually playing up their fiend hunting focus (and only mentioning the angel hunting if a berk shows an inclination towards such an evil activity).

Oddly, this group would be sympathetic towards, or even allied with, the Harmonium. Given the Harmonium's Prime origins, it's their given right to come to the Planes and influence things there. Had it become public knowledge, they would have applauded the shifting of Menasus to Mechanus, since it was due to the actions of the Prime on the Great Wheel, and it's the right of every Prime to dictate how the Wheel is shaped.

------

Actually this is a really strange and interesting group, and there are a lot of weird interactions with the other factions.

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Re: Fast-Forward a Few Hundred Years...

Would be very interesting to see the Defenders of the Prime clash with the Planarists.

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Re: Fast-Forward a Few Hundred Years...

My first instinct told me that they would be at immediate odds, but then after considering it, I imagine they'd constantly bicker and fight over philosophical points, but their goals might actually align from time to time.

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Re: Fast-Forward a Few Hundred Years...

Tequila Sunrise wrote:

To be honest, I'm thinking of this as a parallel multiverse Sigil that just happens to satisfy my sense of aesthetics rather than 'Sigil a few hundred years later.' 'Cause you're right; why throw away all those NPCs? My futuristic Sigil talk was just a way to more easily describe why and how I want to change the factions.

What did you change about the factions so far? I like reading about parallel versions of Sigil. I've never wanted to change the base 15 factions so extremely like in the Faction War, only once considered the Athar and the Godsmen unification, instead of Signers.

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Re: Fast-Forward a Few Hundred Years...

So far I've axed the Doomguard, the Dustmen, the Free League, the Revolutionary League, and the Xaositects.

The Doomguard I may replace with some kind of "We must prepare for Ragnarok/the Final Days" faction. Although, all the Doomguard does is hold the armory, which I'm not convinced really needs to be a Thing. If anyone wants a weapon or armor, there are plenty of blacksmiths in Sigil, right?

I'm replacing the Dustmen with a Buddhist-like faction. "Life is pain caused by fear and desires. Learn and then master your fears and desires, and attain perfection."

The Free League I may replace with the Ciphers. ('Cause really, I think the 'job' of the Ciphers in Sigil is pretty weak.) The RL and the Chaosmen don't need to be replaced by anything.

Then again, I may tweak the Ciphers a bit to give them an environmental bent, and put them in charge of keeping the razorvine in check and maintaining a city park.

I'm giving the Godsmen a new job: running some sort of Academy, where a sod can learn to read and write and do sums for a modest tuition, or learn more advanced subjects if he's got more jink. I think this fits much better with their philosophy than running the Great Foundry, which is another thing that I'm not convinced needs to be a Thing.

And then I'm adding a faction to keep an eye on the city's mages, with a philosophy somewhere along the lines of "Magic corrupts because it's antithetical to the multiverse's natural state."

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Re: Fast-Forward a Few Hundred Years...

On second thought, the Doomguard are still in, but I'm radically changing their philosophy to a "Prepare for Ragnarok!" kind of idea. So still militant in a rough-and-ready kind of way, but not so crazy.

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Re: Fast-Forward a Few Hundred Years...

In my campaign the Doomguard also provide weapon training, and have easier access to tanar'ri red steel than other blacksmiths. I also give a minor entropic effect to the blades, it fades eventually so the customers return.

Godsmen - they still have the Great Foundry, but it's in the Guildhalls Ward. It's as important as the Harbinger House. Their new HQ is in The Lady's Ward, the Ascendant Court, lifted from Pathfinder's Absalom. Constant testing goes on there. Like your idea, they have a sort of academy, but learning methods are different, students learn through their past lives.

Ciphers - The Gymnasium is no longer the headquarters. In The Lady's Ward they have a structure called the Hyper-house, previously a maze where another mercurial lived and wanted to become the Lady's equal. People who can't decide on something often visit.

Guvners - Moved the City Courts to the Clerk Ward.

Signers - One group believes that the aurumach, Center-of-All, is the One.

Sensates - The Civic Festhall is in The Lady's Ward.

Dustmen - The Mortuary is in the Lower Ward. They have fractions and heretical groups like the Whispering Way from Pathfinder, or the Blood of Vol, Eminence of Araunt ...

Hardheads - The Barracks is in the Lower Ward. Sarin is female.

Mercykillers - The Prison and the Tower are in the Lower Ward. The Dispossessed sect also has history with them.

Indeps - I used some Libertarian philosophy for one NPC.

Anarchists - Their tertiary plane of influence is Bytopia - called Utopia in my version of the planes. Not all are terrorists, they say they have a near-perfect society in that plane.

sects
Planarists - two groups, Cirily's are called the Pure, another, the Kindred, is led by daelkyr twins.

Wylders - they try to help with the razorvine and pollution; led by Kiso the bamboo spirit and Ash the treant, and M'borr the lion-man.

Fool's Guild - based in the Palace of the Jester; Jeremo's plays a game with the Ring-Givers.
Deviants - mr. Slur, the ooze sprite, is one of their high-ups.

Imbibers - this is one of my favorite sects from the Mimir site. These cutters believe that the key to power is becoming immune to every form of pain or harm. They get their name from their imbibing small quantities of poison in order to build up resistance. I've added that they deal with three types of pain, physical, spiritual, and mental.

Fate Breakers - they are a part of the Fated.

And so on

Tequila Sunrise's picture
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Re: Fast-Forward a Few Hundred Years...

Sarin sure does sound like a female name, doesn't it?

So the Ascendent Court is some kind of past-life school?

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Re: Fast-Forward a Few Hundred Years...

The Ascendant Court is an entire complex the size of a district. I imagine it as a sort of ''laboratory'' where all kinds of tests about the nature of divinity go on. The school is a small part, I think it would be their unique way of teaching. Alternatively I considered the godling class from Pathfinder as another method of training, but my players haven't so far picked that class. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/super-genius-games/cle...

Sarin, I have newer pictures for most of Sigil NPC's, but couldn't find any good for a male in spiked armor. His change was a result of a prank.

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