Doomguard Druid?

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Rhys's picture
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factotums
Joined: 2004-05-11
Doomguard Druid?

I know it sounds entirely impossible--a guardian of nature belonging to a faction of destruction and decay?--but I'm determined to make this work. I think it could be great, and in an infinitely infinite multiverse, it must be possible.

The easy way would just be "Death is a part of nature, so therefore destruction rules!" but I'd like to come up with something a bit more contemplative than that. What've you folks got?

If all else fails, a cleric might do, as well, taking Decay, Destruction, and so on for domains.

Eco-Mono's picture
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Doomguard Druid?

All shall fade. I see it in the grasslands, slowly dying from the changing climate. I see it in the woodlands, which fall to the progress of empires which shall themselves fall. I see it in the greatest mountains, which erode away ever so slowly, until after a thousand thousand years even they will be reduced to dust.

As a guardian of nature, it is futile for me to attempt to halt nature's course.

But I can help the world go gently into its eventual end.

Truth Golem's picture
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Doomguard Druid?

Interesting idea. I'd think that a Sinker druid would take the long view when it comes to entropy.

One way to think about it: though organisms are very organized, they're essentially entropy machines. Every chemical reaction in your body loses energy because of ineffeciency. Less than 10% of the energy you consume gets put to useful work like making proteins; the rest is lost in the form of heat. And as heat increases, so does entropy. The net effect is a decrease in entropy inside the body, at the expense of creating much more entropy in the environment.

Such a druid would probably focus on animals instead of plants, since all this is easier to see in an animal.

taotad's picture
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Doomguard Druid?

I hate it.

I hate how the green sucks on my living soul. Wanting, craving and always demanding. Its dependency on me is like a tit to a newborn, like a slave to its master, like a beggar to those who pass.

Have you never noticed how weak it really is? Where is the strength of this twig I'm breaking? Where is the strength of the trees that dies of age? Nature is nothing more than life in death. I hate it, but it never leaves me alone!

A drug-addicted druid! Gotta love that.

Maybe a little irrelevant to the topic... :roll:

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Doomguard Druid?

I don't see it as "impossible" at all. I think it can go one of two ways: One as presented by Truth Golem as death being a part of the cycle of life. Two, it could be sort of like the Paladin-Blackguard relationship.. sort of an anti-druid. I'm sure the two ideas could be merged as well.

It reminds me a bit of a kick I was on a few years back where I worked on the concept of a good necromancer. Nowadays you can find information and articles on such a thing (and probably better done than my original ideas). I also worked on ways to justify undead in the service of Kelemvar (FR deity of death, opposed to undead).

The multiverse is infinite. Smiling

Oh yeah, we were on a topic, weren't we? What sorts of animacl companions and wildshape forms do you see for such a druid?

Rhys's picture
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Doomguard Druid?

Yes, that's the problem. I really like the idea of a Sinker druid, but the actual mechanics wouldn't be so great. Lots of spells that he doesn't want to use that heal, create, and make stuff grow, and wild shaping into animals is not really the style, it would seem.

I like the flavor text that people have written up. I'd like to make this druid have a more complex philosophy than merely death being a part of life, so he serves life by serving death. Seems like the Doomguard hardly factors into that at all. An anti-druid is a cool idea, but that would require an entirely new base class that would amount to, approximately "Sinker divine caster". Part of the interest in this character build was the irony of a druid dedicated to destruction.

What about a druid who revered the destructive capacity of nature? Natural cycles of life and death provide a stable system of entropy. Why dedicate oneself to the end of everything--a philosophy of madness--when there exists a perfect harmony of destruction and continuation in nature? Entropy feeds itself perpetually in nature, as the death of one being means existence for another. By being close to nature, one can fully comprehend the perfect balance of entropy that exists already in the natural world. Preserve nature, let its entropic cycle continue, and the multiverse remains stable. But allow entropy to stop, and let the multiverse's denizens build, expand, create, and the balance is removed. It is in the multiverse's best interest--it is necessary, even--that destruction ensue. Creation breeds stagnation, which leads to hopeless constancy.

This druid doesn't have an entirely high opinion of many of his fellow Doomguard, who he sees as firebrands, random anarchists, and madmen. He associates with the faction out of convenience, because its core philosophy is in line with his beliefs, and because certain faction high-ups have helped to guide him to his current state of relative enlightenment. Most of the faction, however, sees him as a moderate Sinker at best, and a weak pretender at worst.

taotad's picture
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Doomguard Druid?

"edobrzel" wrote:
What sorts of animacl companions and wildshape forms do you see for such a druid?
A sterilized specimen of a race near extinction?

Kaelyn's picture
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Doomguard Druid?

"Rhys" wrote:
Lots of spells that he doesn't want to use that heal, create, and make stuff grow, and wild shaping into animals is not really the style, it would seem.

Modify the class, then, until it works. Or maybe some combination of a druidic prestige class (like Shifter) and a more destructive base class (like Warlock or Wilder), or the other way around - something like a druid/cancer mage or druid/blackguard.

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Doomguard Druid?

"Rhys" wrote:
Yes, that's the problem. I really like the idea of a Sinker druid, but the actual mechanics wouldn't be so great. Lots of spells that he doesn't want to use that heal, create, and make stuff grow, and wild shaping into animals is not really the style, it would seem.
In a role-playing type of way, that can be an advantage. Finding creative use of these spells can become something of a trademark for the sinker druid. Using growth spells on razorvine, purifying holy water, etc.

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Doomguard Druid?

Quote:
Entropy feeds itself perpetually in nature, as the death of one being means existence for another. By being close to nature, one can fully comprehend the perfect balance of entropy that exists already in the natural world. Preserve nature, let its entropic cycle continue, and the multiverse remains stable.

Entropy isn't in balance in nature, it isn't in balance anywhere. If you base the doomguard philosophy on any sort of real world thermodynamics, entropy always wins, especially in biological systems, which are notorioiusly inefficent (the most abundant enzyme on earth is rubisco, among the least efficent of all enzymes). Nature is constantly breaking down towards more and more entropy, and it requires tremendous infusions of outside energy of which it can only use a small part to keep functioning.

Perhaps a doomguard druid realizes that without the constant and unending support of the sun nature collapses into entropy and eventually ceases, and therefore believes nature is meant to crumble.

There's no reason why a doomguard ruid needs different powers, since biological systems are less efficent in many ways than inorganic ones, using druidic powers only increases entropy by allowing life to use up more energy and create more heat loss. Taking the long view, a living being loses far more energy as heat than a dead body (in which a great percentage of the energy in the tissue is reclaimed by decomposers) so even healing becomes a service of entropy, by infusing a bit of energy now so more can be lost later.

Rhys's picture
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Doomguard Druid?

Entropy, as it pertains to the Doomguard, is destruction, not loss of energy in a system.

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Doomguard Druid?

what I see is a druid/Blighter......Blighters are perfect examples of Sinker druids. Death and decay, both subtle and agressive. Able to defile and poison plots of land at will....sounds sinker to me.

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Doomguard Druid?

"Rhys" wrote:
Entropy, as it pertains to the Doomguard, is destruction, not loss of energy in a system.

It could be either, depending on which camp they belong to. Many Doomguard take the long view as Mechalich suggests - why should I burn that house down when it will eventually rot away on its own? Their goal is defensive, not offensive - protect the multiverse from those who would artificially try to extend its duration. They're militants who concentrate on the big things, the world-changing artifacts and mad cults who actually stand a chance of making a sun burn that should have gone out millennia ago. I can also see those types as pure druids, not so much of the trees and giant beetles or the spirit of the earth but revering the force of decay itself, the rot beneath the leaves, the falling trunks and branches, and they would act to protect their groves from those who would disrupt this process by hurting the compost and fungi.

It's the fast camp led by Pentar and Ely Cromlich - currently, just before the Faction War, the majority - that believes in destruction for its own sake now now now!

Primus, the One and Prime's picture
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Doomguard Druid?

There are a number of Doomguard stereotypes one can follow with a druid.

The exploiter: Nature is a means to an end. You figure out how it works and you bend it to your will. Bears rampaging through towns are destructive. Wild boars destroying orphanages - entropic. Civilization is a build up of Order, a reversal of entropy. As civilization collapses the mortal races collapse. The worlds slip further and further into entropy as the wildernesses swallow up urban centers.

The preserver: A Sinker only in the broadest sense of the term, the Preserver sees the multiverse sinking into destruction and it quails his heart. He knows he can't stop it, such would be completely futile. But if he can slow it, if he can buy the universe more time, think of what beauty can become? Every minute, every second that the multiverse lives on is beautiful - to hasten its destruction is tantamount to killing someone before thier time. The universe will die, but me and my animal buddies will not go down with a fight!

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Doomguard Druid?

"Rhys" wrote:
Entropy, as it pertains to the Doomguard, is destruction, not loss of energy in a system.

In the long run, they're the same thing.

I guess I wasn't very clear in what I said before; I was trying to say much the same thing as Mechalich.

Life, by its very nature, creates entropy. For example, a bear must eat many times its body weight in plants and animals (highly ordered systems) over its lifetime in order to maintain its own order. It must destroy order to survive. Plants are the same way, because they require the slow destruction of the sun to create sunlight for them.

Persephone Imytholin's picture
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Doomguard Druid?

Maybe a Sinker druid is just trying to understand and observe decay in a forest - neither accelerating nor slowing the destruction, but watching as animal populations explode then die from lack of resources, or observing the ravages of forest fires. Beyond that, the druid would be concerned with protecting the experiment, and letting the forest run its own race to eventual ruin.

Or, maybe, observing the slow decay and destruction of trees to aqpply those findings to the eventual downfall of Yggdrasil.

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Doomguard Druid?

It might be relevant for a Doomguard druid to note that while entropy always inceases in the real world, this may not be the case of the planescape multiverse. In planescape it is possible to have spontaneous generation of energy, and systems that never decay. Planes like fire, radiance, and lightning, simply spew energy into the multiverse perpetually, and a system like the modrons never has an entropy increase unless one goes rogue, while Mechanus as a whole can be reordered to reduce entropy (by the Mediators) without an energy expenditure.

Perhaps a Doomguard druid believes that the progression of entropy as seen in natural (meaning prime, outlands, or perhaps beastlands) systems is the true and proper state of the multiverse, and is trying to insure that the multiverse does indeed break down as nature's law (as opposed to those meddling planar powers and elemental forces) dictates.

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Doomguard Druid?

What/who are the Mediators? I don't recall reading any mention of them.

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Doomguard Druid?

"edobrzel" wrote:

Oh yeah, we were on a topic, weren't we? What sorts of animacl companions and wildshape forms do you see for such a druid?

A dire beaver.

bonemage's picture
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Doomguard Druid?

Well why would a Doom Guard druid need to not use his spells that cause things to grow. I mean with the balance and neutrality type ideas that druids have perhaps he/she would only use these powers when "the growth a new plant/animal would set entropy back on track". I mean yes planting a tree and helping it grow might be considered fighting back but also a tree as it grows starts to tear at the buildings foundation next to it. Uprooting the streets of cities after a few decades. (Look at Mayan ruins if you question how fast nature care reclaim, hide and start to destroy).

Perhaps he sees urbanization as the first step in entropy nature takes backs the cities, the huts, and roads are destined to be destroyed before nature itself since they are fleeting mortal creations. Obviously this line of thinking would likely serve to put him even further on the edge of the Doom Guard (well maybe not some of the more intellectual types) but I am sure he won't have many namers running around talking about how his/her take is a great way to look at it...

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Doomguard Druid?

"Narfi Ref" wrote:
What/who are the Mediators? I don't recall reading any mention of them.

Three omnipotent guardians of Mechanus. They have the ability to cast instantaneous wish effects at will as a spell-like ability; they use it to keep the Clockwork Universe in balance.

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Doomguard Druid?

"Kaelyn" wrote:
Three omnipotent guardians of Mechanus. They have the ability to cast instantaneous wish effects at will as a spell-like ability; they use it to keep the Clockwork Universe in balance.

Where are they mentioned?

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"Narfi Ref" wrote:
Where are they mentioned?

The Planescape Monstrous Compendium, Volume One. They originally appeared in the Monstrous Compendium Outer Planes Appendix.

Planescape, Dungeons & Dragons, their logos, Wizards of the Coast, and the Wizards of the Coast logo are ©2008, Wizards of the Coast, a subsidiary of Hasbro Inc. and used with permission.