Well, that's pretty much all I want to know now. Do Dustmen really somehow manage to completely cease to exisat after being put in the Dead Book, or do they appear as petitioners on some plane?
Does the True Death work?
Sun, 2007-07-29 09:34
#1
Does the True Death work?
Sun, 2007-07-29 12:18
#3
Does the True Death work?
Well, that's pretty much all I want to know now. Do Dustmen really somehow manage to completely cease to exisat after being put in the Dead Book, or do they appear as petitioners on some plane?
Planescape made a big effort to paint every factions beliefs as true. Because they are. At the very least, there's no clear evidence that a faction is wrong.
Sun, 2007-07-29 13:00
#4
Does the True Death work?
The Dustmen's True Death is similar to the Buddhist concept of seeking Nirvana. With the True Death they intend to ascend to a true afterlife or true life or to break the cycle of the false existence.
Sun, 2007-07-29 14:44
#5
Does the True Death work?
But the important thing with the buddhists is, that the ultimate goal after the paradise-like afterlife is to end the cycle of reincarnations and to cease to exist at all.
There has to be a way for the dustmen to prevent an afterlife, better than jumping out of Sigil or angering the Lady (which as far as I see it at the moment are the only ways...). 
Sun, 2007-07-29 20:09
#6
Does the True Death work?
Perhaps it's an aftereffect of their belief - the spell fizzles? After all -t he spell *will* fizzle if the soul is gone - and if the faction's belief is powerful enough it's possible upon death/truedeath - the soul is in fact nullified from existence by sheer belief.
I honestly don't think it's been addressed anywhere - but then again, it can be a very hard thing to locate the petitioner of someone who has died. It isn't (or shouldn't be) as simple as hitting up your local sage for a legend lore or scry.
Sun, 2007-07-29 20:49
#7
Does the True Death work?
Heh. That's not a bad seed for a good adventure. The party is approached by a rather embarrassed Dustman high-up. An elderly Dustman was the only one who knew some important secret (portal key, portal location, hidden object, pie recipe, whatever) but he died his 'true death' a day before he could pass it on to his successor. His corpse isn't even responding to Speak Dead and they're not desperate enough to try to raise him yet. Thus, the PCs set out for (XXXX) looking for the man's petitioner. Which might not even remember the secret. Or exist.
Sun, 2007-07-29 23:21
#8
Does the True Death work?
It isn't (or shouldn't be) as simple as hitting up your local sage for a legend lore or scry.
This coming from the one person that should know Legend Lore spells inside and out and five times around backwards.
Mon, 2007-07-30 01:18
#9
Does the True Death work?
True death? You can allways ask devourer: "Do you want free lunch?"
Mon, 2007-07-30 19:09
#10
True Death made easy...
Simple. First, get yourself killed, then, when you become a petitioner, do it again and you're gone! (Unless my theory that souls CAN'T perish is true; if so, you'd just wind up, frustrated, on another currently-unknown plane...)
Mon, 2007-07-30 19:31
#11
Correction...
Oops, wait a minute, I forgot about the "Revive Outsider" spell from Manual of the Planes! So even if, as a petitioner, you DID get yourself killed, you could still be brought back (but I think that you'd have to be willing for the spell to work... that is, if it works like Raise Dead, Ressurection, etc...)
Mon, 2007-07-30 20:59
#12
Does the True Death work?
Petitioners - those that die at least - have an exception to that rule as far as I know - they literally do not *exist* anymore. They're one with the essence of their plane or chosen power. As far as I'd run it in my game, it wouldn't work - their being willing or not having nothing to do with it - they don't exist anymore.
Fri, 2007-08-03 15:15
#13
Does the True Death work?
Petitioners - those that die at least - have an exception to that rule as far as I know - they literally do not *exist* anymore. They're one with the essence of their plane or chosen power. As far as I'd run it in my game, it wouldn't work - their being willing or not having nothing to do with it - they don't exist anymore.
Well, you could say that 'being one' with anything (god or plane or whatever) means you somehow exist. It also looks like.. some kind of enslavement to me, no matter in which plane or god you end up. Might be another good reason to seek True Death.
Fri, 2007-08-03 15:33
#14
Does the True Death work?
Maybe we must not see the things as they are, but how they *should be*, according to the dustmen's philosophy. 
So if enough people in the multiverse and Hommlet believe that you should reach True Death after living a life without feelings and desires, then it actually becomes reality.
0 Bonus for to do
I rolled 1d20+0, the result is 15.
Sun, 2007-08-05 18:03
#15
Does the True Death work?
I'd think it would be logically, as the planes are governed by consensus reality, that given the fact that the prerequisite is acquired a Dustman would thus attain the True Death, and thereby seize to exist for good, leaving this mere shadow of the real existence behind.
But that would have effects on the Multiverse. If we take that, before the first Dustman achieved the True Death, the multiverse was the real thing and not just a shadow of the real thing. Would it then stop to be the real thing, due to the Dustman's act of belief that manifest itself in the reality of the multiverse and thus changes its very nature. Hence another multiverse was created* - a superior one - ; and the prior real multiverse where shifted into being a mere shadow. No? 
* but how exactly would it be structured as the Dustman didn’t have any, clear, conception of it? Would that nullify its creation, or would the creation be flawed somehow thus wreaking havoc in the creation process, meshing up both the old real mulitiverse and the new real one?
Well, it would be really hard to tell. It's hard enough to mark where one particular soul goes in the Great Wheel, much less those of a whole faction. Most likely, all of the namers and the majority of those above them simply die and become petitioners like everybody else. It'll take them quite a few deaths or a really big leap of understanding to fully grasp the Dustmen philosophy and follow it to the bitter end. The high-ups, though, might very well die differently. Whether they simply disappear forever or go to someplace higher is a tough call.