Did the Faction War and Vecna kill Planescape?

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Wretch's picture
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Did the Faction War and Vecna kill Planescape?

Just an off the cuff question. I read Faction War and quite frankly, with that canon, a great deal of PS players would hate the results of either of those adventures.

Did these offerings kill Mass Market Planescape, or was it purely a fiscal corporate retrenchment?

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Did the Faction War and Vecna kill Planescape?

DVD came well after things were done with Planescape as far as I recall so that wasn't a killer to it. It's just a rottenly *bad* module all on it's own.

Faction War is unliked to be honest because it changes a lot of things with the Factions, but never got the chance to *resolve* them. Faction War was supposed to be just the opening bid of a three part series, and a number of planewalker members who absolutely *detested* the changes have come around to a different view as they see the potential involved in following the story line. (The factions aren't *gone*, they're gone from *Sigil* - which is something entirely different. Now you're more likely to see faction related plotlines in the *planes* not just Sigil.)

Unfortunately, Planescape died the miserable death of not making enough money on sales - and had been doing that for awhile even before Faction War. As far as I know it was a purely financial decision to kill the line. The timing was bad, but no - Faction War was not what killed it.

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Did the Faction War and Vecna kill Planescape?

There were, as I recall, a few products produced post-FW. Weren't The Inner Planes and Tales from the Infinite Staircase made after Faction War?

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Clueless's picture
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Did the Faction War and Vecna kill Planescape?

I think there were some released, I just don't know which ones.

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Did the Faction War and Vecna kill Planescape?

'Clueless' wrote:
I think there were some released, I just don't know which ones.

I believe The Inner Planes and Tales From the Infinite Staircase were both post-Faction War. The designers said they always intended to revisit Sigil after the war and eventually have the factions come back in some manner, but the line ended unexpectedly before they could.

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Did the Faction War and Vecna kill Planescape?

Faction War didn't kill Planescape (market pressure did), but it sure gave it a shove towards the door. I still don't like it and I wouldn't play or run it, and the mess that the module bequeathed to PS fans hinders the setting to this day, IMO.

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Did the Faction War and Vecna kill Planescape?

Having read but not ran it yet, I dont think it is that terrible a thing for the setting. It creates an interesting set of events that I found to my liking.

Especially where the harmonium attacked the Mercykillers. Open warfare in sigil is a great plot twist.

perro's picture
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Did the Faction War and Vecna kill Planescape?

Yeah faction war really did'nt tickle my fancy it changed the entire thing the factions being desrtoyed and split just turned me off and DVD well that could have been better

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Did the Faction War and Vecna kill Planescape?

'perro' wrote:
and DVD well that could have been better

I think a more accurate statement would be that it'd be difficult for it to have been worse.

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Did the Faction War and Vecna kill Planescape?

Eh like I said it did'nt really interest me ravenloft and all(grey hawk I've disliked for awhile so that killed a lil too)

Wretch's picture
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Did the Faction War and Vecna kill Planescape?

What DVD?

ripvanwormer's picture
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Did the Faction War and Vecna kill Planescape?

'Wretch' wrote:
What DVD?

The adventure Die Vecna Die was what was meant, I assume.

Shemeska the Marauder's picture
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Did the Faction War and Vecna kill Planescape?

PS was killed by market forces. It was selling pretty well, but the line (for various reasons, not limited to but including a higher quality of and variety of inks used in the printing process) didn't make as much profit per sale compared to the other DnD lines at the time, and so regardless of popularity or not, the line was folded back into 'core' DnD when 3e came out and wasn't continued as a seperate product line.

As for DVD, it's status as canonical is honestly up in the air. It didn't carry a Planescape line logo, and quite literally none of the changes that occur at the conclusion of the module with regards to cosmology actually resemble any changes that took place between 2e and 3e. In 3e books that would address any of the specific fallout in Sigil from DVD, they've uniformly ignored it, even when Bruce Cordell (who wrote DVD) was doing the writing. That's rather telling I think.

As tempting as it is to just uniformly ignore DVD, I actually use a heavily heavily HEAVILY modified version of its events in my own campaign continuity (without the goofy ideas the module presented w/ regards to The Serpent, The Lady of Pain, etc).

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Did the Faction War and Vecna kill Planescape?

'Shemeska the Marauder' wrote:
PS was killed by market forces. It was selling pretty well, but the line (for various reasons, not limited to but including a higher quality of and variety of inks used in the printing process) didn't make as much profit per sale compared to the other DnD lines at the time, and so regardless of popularity or not, the line was folded back into 'core' DnD when 3e came out and wasn't continued as a seperate product line.
Actually, PS was folded back in prior to 3e, late in 2nd ed. AD&D when obviously PS products like Warriors of Heavan and Vortex of Madness were sold under the AD&D banner (the so called 2.5e period)... Kwint

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Did the Faction War and Vecna kill Planescape?

According to the WotC people at the time, the sales of things like Warriors of Heaven without the Planescape logo were better than similar products like A Guide to the Ethereal Plane with the Planescape logo by an order of magnitude.

Perhaps it was the fact that you needed to buy four boxed sets to really get into Planescape. Even though most Planescape supplements were perfectly usable in any campaign, they weren't perceived that way.

perro's picture
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Did the Faction War and Vecna kill Planescape?

true the box sets were costly were costly were't they

simmo's picture
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Did the Faction War and Vecna kill Planescape?

'Clueless' wrote:
...Faction War was supposed to be just the opening bid of a three part series, and a number of planewalker members who absolutely *detested* the changes have come around to a different view as they see the potential involved in following the story line. (The factions aren't *gone*, they're gone from *Sigil* - which is something entirely different. Now you're more likely to see faction related plotlines in the *planes* not just Sigil.)

I wasn't aware that it was the first in a three part series. So... are there any plans to create and make available follow up modules to Faction War?

Is there any information available on what the other two adventures were going to contain? Or should we just get our creative juices going and make up some modules?

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Did the Faction War and Vecna kill Planescape?

There aren't any plans amongst the WotC crowd if you were hoping for them. There *is* a plan with the PSCS if we can finish getting the current chapters out, and get ourselves in order - to make our own, hopefully to redeem that poor ending.

There's so much potential in the way Faction War ended that I can't see spreading the emphasis of the factions throughout the planes as anythign but a bad thing.

We just need ideas and some folks willing to chain themselves to their desk for a bit to type it up. I was considering running a small competition for modules / one shots to get the ball rolling. Smiling

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Did the Faction War and Vecna kill Planescape?

ok, so along the same lines then...how far after Planescape died did 3rd edition come out, I was always under the impression the true "murderer" of planescape was Wizards of the coast, TSR did a much better job in my opion. I read through faction war and thought it was a pretty good adventure.

eldersphinx's picture
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Did the Faction War and Vecna kill Planescape?

I doubt that Faction War killed Planescape. It was released in November 1998 (and The Inner Planes came a month later); the Planescape brand was abandoned at the beginning of 1999. You don't nuke a brand based on fan disapproval of a product expressed over a six-week period. If Faction War had killed Planescape, there'd be a trail of rebranded niche products and unpublished manuscripts extending through April 1999ish.

Planescape died in the Marketing department, probably sometime around September of 1998. Can't blame Faction War for that - or at the very least, not the fans' reactions to it. Not unless the fans got prescient.

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Did the Faction War and Vecna kill Planescape?

'Gaberial Cross' wrote:
I was always under the impression the true "murderer" of planescape was Wizards of the coast,

Remember that most of the latter Planescape products were published by WotC.

If it weren't for Wizards of the Coast, no one would have published Faces of Evil: The Fiends, The Great Modron March, Dead Gods, A Guide to the Astral Plane, A Guide to the Ethereal Plane, Tales From the Infinite Staircase, The Inner Planes, the Planescape Monstrous Compendium III, or Faction War.

They were written by the TSR staff, but it was Wizards of the Coast that shelled out the cash to buy the rights and pay the publishing, advertising, and distribution costs for them. If not for them, Planescape would have died when TSR did instead of three years later.

perro's picture
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Did the Faction War and Vecna kill Planescape?

then why did WOTC kill the setting in third ED.It makes no sense they get rid the setting and now in 3.5 are bringing in PS material.It's weird.

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Did the Faction War and Vecna kill Planescape?

Because of the bottom line. Oh we all certainly *agree* that it shouldn't have been killed - but the majority of the population didn't :-/

And it's not that PS didn't sell at all, it *did* - but the printing cost for the gloosy and higher quality paper and innk that the PS line was printed on just didn't have *enough* of a profit for WotC to keep it afloat.

To be honest, half the reason we're seeing PS stuff popup now in the planar works WotC is releasing is probably due to two things.

1) A few of their writers *liked* the setting and want to use it. And once the precedent is set by one or two, the rest follow it.
2) Us. And people like us. Aka "the Rabid Fan" lobby. Eye-wink

WotC knows the setting isn't a *bad* one, it just doen't have enough going for it to spin off on it's own. But there's no reason not to use the material from it.

ripvanwormer's picture
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Did the Faction War and Vecna kill Planescape?

...especially considering how easily it fits with other D&D things. With summoning spells and the like, they've made the planes a much bigger part of core 3rd edition than they were in core 2nd edition.

perro's picture
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Did the Faction War and Vecna kill Planescape?

True they did make it nearly a neccestiy to have any planar creatures But at the same time they have started to make it a seperate campaign again.

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Did the Faction War and Vecna kill Planescape?

The return of Planescape related material.... surely this is just another example of the Unity of Rings? Cool

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