Creature & Design Help Wanted: The Lady's Dark Sea

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Thu, 2005-05-12 17:19

Gerzel

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Creature & Design Help Wanted: The Lady's Dark Sea

Hello

Well I'm back on working up stats and descriptions of the areas and creatures that call The Lady's Dark Seas their home (described in the thread of the same name in the Chant section). I need help though because I do not have the rules for telepathy in D&D nor do I really have any expiriance with useing them. Thus I have no idea to build balanced creatures using those rules, and many of the creatures in the Dark Seas will be using telepathy.

Also I am interested in help with general creature design, and help with game balance. Also other contributions such as site descriptions and ideas, even illustrations are always very welcome.

If you are interested either reply here or send me a private message.

Thu, 2005-05-12 18:50

edobrzel

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Creature & Design Help Wanted: The Lady's Dark Sea

Telepathy: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/naturalSpecialAbilities.htm#telepathy

That site should be your friend. If not, make it so.

I'm pretty good with rules and mechanics. Post some ideas and I (and others) would be glad to help work them into shape.

You mentioned The Chant section... um this is The Chant. :

Edit: I'm an idiot. I didn't even realize what section I was in. Ignore that last line.

Thu, 2005-05-12 19:16

(Reply to #2) #3

Gerzel

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Creature & Design Help Wanted: The Lady's Dark Sea

I thought this was the hall of records section?

Thu, 2005-05-12 20:32

(Reply to #3) #4

Gerzel

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Creature & Design Help Wanted: The Lady's Dark Sea

Ok the first creature I need help with is doing a telepathic version of the cranium eels, the dominant intelligent race inside the Deepwell Sea. Below I have already done up the first stats for the juvenile eels, below that the eels are essentially normal eels with only a minor telepathic ability to stun other smaller creatures and are unintelligent.

A. I would like help working up versions of these eels using the telepathic and psi rules for d20 as well as stats for non-psi games. Right now I'm working in 3rd ed. But 3.5 is ok too.

B. I also want to work up stats for the older eels, which grow progressively larger and gain more intelligence and powers. The largest of which are of gigantic size and are referred to by other eels as "dreamers" and are not seen much at the surface. My idea of them is that the younger smaller eels telepathically give sustenance to the larger ones who go into a permanent state of deep sleep dreaming and controlling the mysterious forces of the underground seas.

Quote:

Name: Cranium Eel (Juvenile)
Size - Type: Small Aberration
HP: 2d8
Initiative: +1
Speed: 0ft. swim 60ft.
AC: 11
Attacks: bite +1 melee
Damage: bite 1d6 piercing/slashing/bludgeoning
Face/Reach: 3ft by 6ft/5ft
Special Attacks: Telepathic Slam 4/day
Special Qualities: Telepathic Bond
Saves: fort +0, refl +1, will +1
Abilities: str 8, con 11, dex 13, int 8, wis 8, cha 8
Skills: concentration +2, knowledge(local) +2, knowledge(religion) +3, swim +11, wilderness lore +2
Feats: Weapon Finesse (Bite)
Climate/Terrain: Cold Aquatic
Organization: school(4-12 juvenile, plus 1 adult)
Challenge Rating: ???
Alignment: NE

The juvenile cranium eel is the first stage in the eel's development where the individuals start to possess true intelligence. Most all of what they know is either learned from hunting from younger stages of their life cycles and knowledge skills telepathically instilled to them by the older adult instructor eel that accompanies and dominates every school of juveniles.

Telepathic Slam (su) - As a full attack action the eel may make a ranged attack (range 20) dealing 2d6 points of damage. This is a force effect.

Telepathic Bond (su) - Juvenile Eels communicate with other eels through a special telepathic link. This link also allows them to be dominated by their older brethren. This link does not extend to other species.

Fri, 2005-05-13 05:42

(Reply to #4) #5

Nemui

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Creature & Design Help Wanted: The Lady's Dark Sea

I take it that by "telepathy" you mean "psionics"? If that's the case, you can find psionic rules *here*.

- replace telepathic slam with concussion blast (see SRD link above)
- replace stunning with psionic blast (ditto)
- replace telepathic link with general "telepathy 100 ft."
- add psionic subtype (has no in-game effect, just notes that the creature has psionic abilities)

Fri, 2005-05-13 11:06

(Reply to #5) #6

edobrzel

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Creature & Design Help Wanted: The Lady's Dark Sea

I agree with Neumi. My notes:

- Bite damage should be 1d6-1. "piercing/slashing/bludgeoning" isn't really needed (at least w/ 3.5)
- Can they see in the dark? i.e., do they need Darkvision?
- I'd go with Swim +9. Usually aquatic gives a +10. -1 from Str would give +9. (IMO)
- CR 1

I'll have to think about it more, but I was originally thinking you might want to put in an SQ that represents their suseptibility to being dominated by elders, but you may want to go the opposite route and put something in the elders that is like "dominate cranium eel".

Fri, 2005-05-13 12:40

(Reply to #6) #7

Gerzel

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Creature & Design Help Wanted: The Lady's Dark Sea

Thanks all. I'll take that into consideration. Both of you are giving good help, so keep it up.

Of note, the swim is +11 due to racial skill points spent to boost it.

Fri, 2005-05-13 13:13

(Reply to #7) #8

Gerzel

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Creature & Design Help Wanted: The Lady's Dark Sea

Ok here are the revised stats for the jevenile eels:

Quote:

Name: Cranium Eel (Juvenile) Size - Type: Small Aberration Psionic HP: 2d8 Initiative: +1 Speed: 0ft. swim 60ft. AC: 11 Attacks: bite +2 melee Damage: bite 1d6 -1 Face/Reach: 3ft by 6ft/5ft Special Attacks: Concussion blast 1/day Special Qualities: Blind Sight (Sonar, water only, 60ft.), Dark vision (20ft.), Domination Reception, telepathy (100 ft.) Saves: fort +0, refl +1, will +1 Abilities: str 8, con 11, dex 13, int 8, wis 8, cha 8 Skills: concentration +2, knowledge(local) +2, knowledge(religion) +3, swim +11, wilderness lore +2 Feats: Weapon Finesse (Bite) Climate/Terrain: Cold Aquatic Organization: school(4-12 juvenile, plus 1 adult) Challenge Rating: 3/4 Alignment: NE

The younger adult cranium eels are still mostly dominated by their elders and keep to the larger deeper schools where they focus on learning new skills. In many respects this stage of an eel's life is similar to a human going through an apprenticeship or studying at a collage or trade school. This is also the first stage where eels might gain class levels, though only a few ever do. The eel's favored class is always the first class they gain through training with older eels with that class. Most eels with class levels have clerical levels.

Concussion Blast (ps) - As the psionic ability deals 1d6 points of damage. The eel may choose to deal non-lethal damage instead. Range is 140ft.

Domination Reception (ps) - The juvenile eels may not resist attempts by older eels to be dominated. They may resist being dominated by other creatures however.

I have changed the number of times per day the concussion blast can be used because I think that 4/day is too powerful. I adjusted the CR to 3/4 because of this. Is that too much? The adults will get the ability at 4/day and I am considering other abilities as well. Oh and I increased the melee bite to +2 to account for the weapon finesse feat

Fri, 2005-05-13 14:33

(Reply to #8) #9

Gerzel

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Creature & Design Help Wanted: The Lady's Dark Sea

Allright here is the semi final versions for the first three stages of development for Cranium eels. These represent the bulk of individuals in cranium eel society. I'm posting here for review and stat checking.

Quote:

Concussion Blast (ps) - As the psionic ability deals 1d6 points of damage. The eel may choose to deal non-lethal damage instead. Range is 140ft.

Domination Reception (ps) - The juvenile eels may not resist attempts by older eels to be dominated. They may resist being dominated by other creatures however.

Name: Cranium Eel (Young Adult)
Size - Type: Small Aberration Psionic
HP: 3d8
Initiative: +1
Speed: 0ft. swim 60ft.
AC: 11
Attacks: bite +2 melee
Damage: bite 1d6 -1
Face/Reach: 3ft by 6ft/5ft
Special Attacks: Concussion blast 4/day
Special Qualities: Blind Sight (Sonar, water only, 60ft.), Dark vision (20ft.), telepathy (100 ft.)
Saves: fort +0, refl +1, will +3
Abilities: str 9, con 11, dex 13, int 10, wis 10, cha 8
Skills: concentration +4, knowledge(local) +3, knowledge(religion) +4, swim +11, wilderness lore +3
Feats: Weapon Finesse (Bite)
Climate/Terrain: Cold Aquatic
Organization: school (4-8 young adult)
Challenge Rating: 1.25
Alignment: NE

Concentration Bonus (ex) - Due to their psionic nature cranium eels have a natural ability to focus and concentrate adding their wisdom bonus along with their constitution bonus to their concentration skill.

Concussion Blast (ps) - As the psionic ability deals 1d6 points of damage. The eel may choose to deal non-lethal damage instead. Range is 140ft.

Name: Cranium Eel (Adult)
Size - Type: Small Aberration Psionic
HP: 4d8
Initiative: +1
Speed: 0ft. swim 60ft.
AC: 11
Attacks: bite +2 melee
Damage: bite 1d6
Face/Reach: 3ft by 6ft/5ft
Special Attacks: Concussion blast 4/day
Special Qualities: Blind Sight (Sonar, water only, 60ft.), Dark vision (20ft.), Dominate cranium eel (120ft.), telepathy (120 ft.)
Saves: fort +2, refl +3, will +3
Abilities: str 10, con 12, dex 14, int 10, wis 11, cha 9
Skills: concentration +5, knowledge(local) +3, knowledge(religion) +4, swim +11, wilderness lore +4
Feats: Weapon Finesse (Bite), Weapon Focus (Bite)
Climate/Terrain: Cold Aquatic
Organization: single, or school (4-6 adult)
Challenge Rating: 2
Alignment: NE

Adult cranium eels are considered to be fully independent of one another and are able to make their own descriptions in the eel's society. They are the most common type of eel that outsiders will deal with, and the only kind that most will ever see up close. Larger older eels tend to keep away from outsiders and also keep to the deeper colder waters. About a fourth of all adult cranium eels will also possess one or more class levels in addition to their racial abilities. About half of those eels that have class levels will be experts with the rest having levels in the various PC classes, especially priests, and other magical and psionic casting classes.

Concussion Blast (ps) - As the psionic ability deals 2d6 points of damage. The eel may choose to deal non-lethal damage instead. Range is 200ft.

Dominate Eels - (ps) - As a single attack action the eel may dominate another eel of fewer hit dice. This is as dominate person except it is only able to target other cranium eels of lesser HD and may be used to dominate a number of eels up to twice the larger eel's hit dice. A Will save DC 20 negates. Range is 120ft.

Fri, 2005-05-13 18:58

(Reply to #9) #10

Nemui

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Creature & Design Help Wanted: The Lady's Dark Sea

- Give it a minimum speed, I'd say 5 ft.
- AC 11 is really, really low. I'd give it a +1 or +2 natural, but it's your call.
- On the other end, 1d6 bite damage is a bit much for Small size.
- Attack bonus should be +3 (+1 base, +1 size, +1 Dex)
- Standard Space/Reach is 5 ft./5 ft. Don't know how you came up with 3 ft. and 6 ft. ...
- It doesn't need darkvision if it has blindsight; what's the radius on blindsight, 60 ft.?
- Dex goes before Con
- You messed up the skill points. Why the Knowledge skills?! W. Lore = Survival. See suggestion below.
- CR: I'd leave it at 1/2. Can't remember a creature with CR 3/4, and EL calculation may be messed up by that...
- AL NE? This creature seems rather animalistic to me, so I'd suggest Neutral. The cranium rats are servants of Ilsensine, and NE makes sense for them, but I don't see the point here.
- Domination Reception: I'd leave this for the description of the adult eel's dominate ability, it's not really necessary here.

That's about it. Some formatting applied, here's how the juvenile version would look like:

Cranium Eel, Juvenile
Small Aberration (Extraplanar, Psionic)
HD: 2d8 (9 hp)
Init: +1
Spd: 0 ft., swim 60ft.
AC: 13 (+1 Dex, +2 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 12
BAB/Grapple: +1/-4
Attack: +3 melee (1d6 -1)
Full Attack: +3 melee (1d6 -1)
S/R: 5 ft./5 ft.
SA: Concussion blast
SQ: Blindsight 60 ft., telepathy 100 ft.
SV: Fort +0, Ref +1, Will +1
Abilities: Str 8, Dex 13, Con 11, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 8
Skills: Hide +5, Move Silently 3, Survival +1, Swim +7
Feats: Weapon Finesse
Environment: Cold Aquatic
Organization: School (4-12 juvenile, plus 1 adult)
Challenge Rating: 1/2
Alignment: Usually neutral

Concussion Blast (Psi): 1d6 damage, range 120 ft.; the eel may choose to deal non-lethal damage instead.

Skills: The juvenile cranium eel has a +8 racial bonus on Swim checks. It can take 10 on Swim checks at any time, yadda yadda yadda, see MM.

...

- One last comment: I can't really see where you are going with these creatures from the text block above. You might want to expand it a bit - habitat, ecology, external relations, and all that...

Fri, 2005-05-13 20:29

(Reply to #10) #11

Gerzel

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Creature & Design Help Wanted: The Lady's Dark Sea

Allright

"Nemui" wrote:

- Give it a minimum speed, I'd say 5 ft. - AC 11 is really, really low. I'd give it a +1 or +2 natural, but it's your call.

What's a minimum speed? Why do they need one? The AC I'll agree with you and bump it up.

Quote:

- On the other end, 1d6 bite damage is a bit much for Small size. - Attack bonus should be +3 (+1 base, +1 size, +1 Dex) - Standard Space/Reach is 5 ft./5 ft. Don't know how you came up with 3 ft. and 6 ft. ...

They are longer than they are wide and thus need more room in length to operate than they do in width.

Quote:

- It doesn't need darkvision if it has blindsight; what's the radius on blindsight, 60 ft.?

Blindsight is sonar and only works in the water. Darkvision is visual heat sensing. They don't have good eyes.

Quote:

- Dex goes before Con

noted

Quote:

- You messed up the skill points. Why the Knowledge skills?! W. Lore = Survival. See suggestion below.

The Juvenile and young adults are being trained to become full members of the eels' society. So far I am using 3rd ed to build the eels. The skills have been done as the 3rd ed MM says abberations should get skills.

Quote:

- CR: I'd leave it at 1/2. Can't remember a creature with CR 3/4, and EL calculation may be messed up by that...

Right. In 3rd ed and I belive 3.5 EL and CR are not related at all; they simply are determined by similar factors.

Quote:

- AL NE? This creature seems rather animalistic to me, so I'd suggest Neutral. The cranium rats are servants of Ilsensine, and NE makes sense for them, but I don't see the point here.

The eels are intelligent. By adulthood they have int wis and cha scores in-line with a fully intelligent species. NE represents their average racial outlook. The younger ones are barely intelligent and the juveniles are closer to TN but thy are constantly dominated by older eels that are teaching them the ways of eel society.

Quote:

- Domination Reception: I'd leave this for the description of the adult eel's dominate ability, it's not really necessary here.

I've considered this, but the juveniles have no ability to resist while the young adults do. So far I'll leave it like this.

Quote:

- One last comment: I can't really see where you are going with these creatures from the text block above. You might want to expand it a bit - habitat, ecology, external relations, and all that...

Here I have put just the stats for the eels. their habitat society and ect. are all described in the chant section under the article "The Lady's Dark Sea" /forums/viewtopic.php?t=665

Sat, 2005-05-14 04:10

(Reply to #11) #12

Nemui

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Creature & Design Help Wanted: The Lady's Dark Sea

"Gerzel" wrote:

What's a minimum speed? Why do they need one?

Well, creatures that are not purely aquatic usually have a land speed of 5 ft., just to show that they are not entirely helpless out of the water. It's not a big deal, since they probably won't be seen out of the water often, but I'd say they need at least some non-swimming means of locomotion. If you choose not to give them a land speed, than just leave it out, don't put "0 ft.".

Quote:

They are longer than they are wide and thus need more room in length to operate than they do in width.

Not in 3.5 they don't. In 3.5, every creature occupies a square space. This was done to remove the need for "facing" which was nominally not part of 3.0 but still used to turn up every now and then with "non-square" creatures. Just give it a 5 ft. square and you'll be fine.

Quote:

Blindsight is sonar and only works in the water. Darkvision is visual heat sensing.

For sonar, see the porpoise entry: "Blindsight (Ex): Porpoises can “see” by emitting high-frequency sounds, inaudible to most other creatures, that allow them to locate objects and creatures within 120 feet. A silence spell negates this and forces the porpoise to rely on its vision, which is approximately as good as a human’s."

And BTW, darkvision is not heat sense (2E infravision). It discerns "cold" objects as easily as those that do not radiate heat. But you should still include it (60 ft. range or so?) if the sonar works in water only (although the porpoise's works everywhere).

Quote:

The skills have been done as the 3rd ed MM says abberations should get skills.

Aberrations get this much skill points, both in 3.0 and 3.5: (HD +3) x (Int 2 + Int modifier). For the juvenile eel, this is (2+3) x (2-1) = 5 skill points. Having a swim speed grants a +8 racial bonus on Swim checks.

Mon, 2005-05-16 15:52

(Reply to #12) #13

Rathennan

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Creature & Design Help Wanted: The Lady's Dark Sea

Hey, not to be selfish or anything but this seems to be the place for telepathy and psionics and cyric knows that ain't my department. Soooo, does anyone have a homemade 3E Aboleth in their personal monster compendium? Can't find one for the life of me and am too ignorant, (read lazy) to do it myself. Surely there's some evil genius out there able to release these foul scalies into the multiverse?
If not, ta anyway.

Mon, 2005-05-16 16:33

(Reply to #13) #14

Gerzel

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Creature & Design Help Wanted: The Lady's Dark Sea

"Nemui" wrote:

"Gerzel" wrote:

What's a minimum speed? Why do they need one?

Here the eels are purely aquatic. They cannot survive out of water, other than perhaps floundering around in mud.

Quote:

They are longer than they are wide and thus need more room in length to operate than they do in width.

Allright. I see what you're talking about.

Quote:

Blindsight is sonar and only works in the water. Darkvision is visual heat sensing.

Ok, I'll take a look at this.

Quote:

Not sure. One thing is that I don't want them to have good vision out of water. While they can see in the dark their sight is more based on sonar and heat. Also considering adding scent for them, smelling the waters.

Quote:

The skills have been done as the 3rd ed MM says abberations should get skills.

Ok. I'll take another look at that.

Mon, 2005-05-16 16:35

(Reply to #14) #15

Gerzel

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Creature & Design Help Wanted: The Lady's Dark Sea

"Rathennan" wrote:

I'm not sure what you want. Do you want a non-psionic Aboleth? Or do you want to use these eels in your game?

Mon, 2005-05-16 18:36

(Reply to #15) #16

Ohtar Turinson

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Creature & Design Help Wanted: The Lady's Dark Sea

"Rathennan" wrote:

Soooo, does anyone have a homemade 3E Aboleth in their personal monster compendium?

I assume you want a different version from the one in the monster manual and the variation in the Psionics Handbook?

Fri, 2005-05-20 12:50

(Reply to #16) #17

Rathennan

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Creature & Design Help Wanted: The Lady's Dark Sea

Just your normal run of the mill aboleth, telepathy and all. They get psionicc blasts and stuff too don't they? anyway, i kinda need some stats for one and I can't find any! At my wits end, please can anyone help. ta very much.

Fri, 2005-05-20 15:27

(Reply to #17) #18

Gerzel

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Creature & Design Help Wanted: The Lady's Dark Sea

"Rathennan" wrote:

You do know that they are in the Monster Manual and are one of the SRD monsters?

Sun, 2005-05-22 12:45

(Reply to #18) #19

Bob the Efreet

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Creature & Design Help Wanted: The Lady's Dark Sea

If you don't want to get the 3.5 books, you can always check out the SRD. Here is the aboleth.

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