Creating our own game mechanics for Planescape and Planewalker

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Archdukechocula's picture
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Creating our own game mechanics for Planescape and Planewalker

So, I've been thinking about it for a while, and since 4E seems so dissatisfying to so many people, and since Planewalker has such a dedicated base, how do people feel about just creating our own, entirely new Game Mechanics? This would give Planewalker the freedom to adapt mechanically, without feeling beholden to the developments of D&D.

The upside is that Planescape is such a rich setting, and is so conceptually broad in scope, that it can effectively act as a standalone RPG, with really almost no input needed from the actual D&D world. This would give the site unlimited creativity (And there seems to be a surplus of that kind of talent here), a dynamic campaign setting (we could make our own canon material), and if done right, a genuing on-profit RPG product to offer the world.

The catch (and there are many) is that we would be put in a situation where we would be potentially stepping on WotC's toes, which means we would either a) need to release everything 100% for free or b) would need to create a setting sufficiently "alternate" that WotC couldn't claim copyright infringement. There are certain concepts embedded in Planescape that are generic enough (The center of all, real world pantheons, real world monsters, etc) that you could take the essence of Planescape and rework it into an entirely independent setting that would'nt be under any threat of copyright infringement.

The freedom to implement a new mechanics gives us a couple advantages. For one, we can create a mechanical system that is more attuned to the nature of adventuring in the planes. For two, a new game mechanics really frees us up from most of the copyright problems that come with D&D (even if D&D is open source in 3.X, you still had to accept d20 branding and all that comes with it, and we dont yet know how 4e will affect these things).

Basically, as I see it, a lot of effort is being expended here by a bunch of talented people in order to build up a mythos around an unsupported system whose audience is largely limited to those who actually frequent this website. What has been created is amazing. The only thing that has limited it in my view is the scope of the audience. I envision utilizing that talent to create a full on open source RPG that aims for a broader audience, and whose only market motive is to propagate the site itself.

I myself have game mechanics I've developed over the years that I would happily lend to the project, though I would be just as happy to see anything better being used, and the site obviously has a ton of user created material that could be readily adapted to the new RPG with just a few changes. Plus, with a blank slate, we can help work out the kinks and other issues that come with the setting.

I realize this is insanely ambitious, but it is something I have long dreamed of, and I am sure many other people here on the site have had similar visions, and is something I truly believe people here are capable of making it happen. We have all dreamed of being involved in some RPG company or another at some point in our gaming, so what the hell, why not do it ourselves? Right here there is the talent, the knowledge, and the capability. So why not give it a shot? What do you think?

Evil's picture
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Creating our own game mechanics for Planescape and Planewalker

I don't think I will be much help mechanics-wise, but I definitely support you.
However, designing a completely new game system from ground up would take too much time and effort, and plus, it will probably be reinventing what somebody invented years ago. There are thousands of game systems out there. I think we should have check them out and see if they could be implemented to PSCS. All systems have pros and cons, some offer good versatility, some high realism, some nice social interaction mechanics. What is it that we want from our system? Do we want to keep classes and spellbook magic system or not? Things like this should be decided first and I think even this will take a lot of time.
Considering this stage is over, I think the best way to go about with the new mechanic is to convert the old rules, spells, powers, monsters, skills, etc.

For example, I like how cyberpunk2020 deals with dice rolling and combat, but it is way too deadly for PS. On the other hand, I like how WoD keeps up with a character having many different skills, but I hate having to roll a bunch of dice for every damn action. I also like to see my dnd mage casting arcane spells from his spellbook, but when a psychic character is involved the system completely breaks down.

It is a hard thing to balance between these things. I wish you luck and patience. Laughing out loud

Archdukechocula's picture
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Creating our own game mechanics for Planescape and Planewalker

'Evil' wrote:
I don't think I will be much help mechanics-wise, but I definitely support you. However, designing a completely new game system from ground up would take too much time and effort, and plus, it will probably be reinventing what somebody invented years ago. There are thousands of game systems out there. I think we should have check them out and see if they could be implemented to PSCS.

In principle I agree. There are plenty of perfectly good systems out there. THe problem is, they all come with legal baggage. You can't just coopt some setting's game mechanics without permission. I see Earthdawn as being perfectly suited to Planescape for example, but since a company owns the rights to the game, you can't really do anything with it.

Quote:
All systems have pros and cons, some offer good versatility, some high realism, some nice social interaction mechanics. What is it that we want from our system? Do we want to keep classes and spellbook magic system or not? Things like this should be decided first and I think even this will take a lot of time.

All things I've thought about and dealt with extensively and have largely tackled when creating my own system. To me, the mechanical things are far easier to tackle than the setting aspects. Mechanics can be taken on by one person. A setting takes a bunch of people to really make it a living breathing world.

Quote:
Considering this stage is over, I think the best way to go about with the new mechanic is to convert the old rules, spells, powers, monsters, skills, etc.

That would be the time consuming part mechanically. Figuring out how (or even if) to do a conversion. The system I've made is highly adaptable, and reasonably easy to translate on the skill end of things (the bonuses can almost be taken straight across into a new system, with a pretty basic math conversion, and straightforward skill translations). The real problem is figuring out how to handle things like Hitpoints, Spells, and Powers, since they dont translate as readily.

Really, in my view, the only difficulty in this is getting people motivated to do it. I can just keep on doing it myself, which is fine, and is the most likely outcome, but it would be way easier with help/

In the end, probably what I will do is just finish making my roleplaying system, post it here, and see if people have the slightest interest. My guess is people will be pretty skeptical unless they see a full working system.

Dunamin's picture
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Joined: 2006-06-13
Creating our own game mechanics for Planescape and Planewalker

It would definitely be interesting to see achieved, though I don't see why Planescape should need to be tied down to any particular game system.

I can make planehopping adventurers and flavorful enigmatic Sigil NPCs in D&D 2nd Ed, 3rd Ed, 4th Ed, and Pathfinder, and I'm sure it can be accomplished in many other game systems as well.
Planescape is full of important NPCs that are meant to be virtually untouchable in relation to PCs, which makes game mechanics pertaining to them mostly irrelevant. However, if unique mechanics should be fashioned to Planescape, I'd suggest emphasizing parts such as the Power of Belief. I think there's basis for setting up a loose and general system, where X number of devoted people tries to succeed at an Y check, to make Z come into being. Or something like that.

Archdukechocula's picture
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Creating our own game mechanics for Planescape and Planewalker

'Dunamin' wrote:
It would definitely be interesting to see achieved, though I don't see why Planescape should need to be tied down to any particular game system.

It doesn't inherently need to be tied down to a game system. But in actuality, that is what will always happen. People on planewalker are adapting all the rules to 3E specifically, so that all information is compatible, which is perfectly sensible. My main line of argument is that, since 3E will be an unsupported system, why not develop a superior system supported by this site? It seems to me a perfectly valid thing to pursue.

Quote:
I can make planehopping adventurers and flavorful enigmatic Sigil NPCs in D&D 2nd Ed, 3rd Ed, 4th Ed, and Pathfinder, and I'm sure it can be accomplished in many other game systems as well.

Certainly, but the point remains, using other systems limits what you can do legally.Using your own system frees you of most of those restrictions.

Quote:
Planescape is full of important NPCs that are meant to be virtually untouchable in relation to PCs, which makes game mechanics pertaining to them mostly irrelevant.

WEll, right. And a new system would'nt require stating those guys. I certainly wouldn't bother. But obviously you need to stat monsters and the like.

Quote:
However, if unique mechanics should be fashioned to Planescape, I'd suggest emphasizing parts such as the Power of Belief. I think there's basis for setting up a loose and general system, where X number of devoted people tries to succeed at an Y check, to make Z come into being. Or something like that.

It's those kinds of things that I think a new system would handle better. Things like how a plane works, and how belief impacts reality and so forth. Mostly though I like the idea of an elegant gaming system geared more towards roleplaying, with less cumbersome combat, and which moves away from classed based characters. That may be a personal preference though,

Githyankee's picture
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Creating our own game mechanics for Planescape and Planewalker

'Quale' wrote:
we play a homebrew system, but I doubt that it can ever be written cause the rules develop as we play, so you don't get skills/feats/spells when you level up but through roleplaying

at first your character is classless, ''base'' for skills/feats/spells is similar to epic spell seeds, they can be improved or be forgotten/atrophy depending on what our character does with them. Then the DM decides on the class, warrior, arcanist or rogue (rule of three) which can be changed easily. Class abilities/spells/feats/skills depend on a lot of factors, power of belief, lore learning, race/culture, activating innate powers (from bloodlines, previous incarnations etc.), training, membership in organizations (we play a lot in FR), grafts/items, pacts ...

That's actually pretty cool.

Quale's picture
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Joined: 2008-01-11
Creating our own game mechanics for Planescape and Planewalker

we play a homebrew system, but I doubt that it can ever be written cause the rules develop as we play, so you don't get skills/feats/spells when you level up but through roleplaying

at first your character is classless, ''base'' for skills/feats/spells is similar to epic spell seeds, they can be improved or be forgotten/atrophy depending on what our character does with them. Then the DM decides on the class, warrior, arcanist or rogue (rule of three) which can be changed easily. Class abilities/spells/feats/skills depend on a lot of factors, power of belief, lore learning, race/culture, activating innate powers (from bloodlines, previous incarnations etc.), training, membership in organizations (we play a lot in FR), grafts/items, pacts ...

Rhys's picture
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Joined: 2004-05-11
Creating our own game mechanics for Planescape and Planewalker

I'm not so sure about this. I don't mean to discourage you or your creativity, but consider that, as much as there are complaints to voice about this or that with D&D, Wizards of the Coast grants this website pretty extraordinary lenience to produce material for the game without having to get specific permission for every project.

The way I see it, if you want to break away from WotC, you have two very difficult options:
1) Go to another company and get permission to write a new game for them utilizing their ruleset, planar-based but ignoring anything covered by WotC IP. You have to go through a lot of paperwork that someone without a corporate legal department may not be equipped to navigate (I sure as hell am not), and that's assuming that you successfully pitch what amounts to a brand new RPG to a company.
2) Write some very generic rules for an RPG and rewrite Planescape without any brand-specific names, terms, characters, cosmologies, organizations, personalities, items, locations, or creatures. I think this would end up being unsatisfying, because you would have to make it practically unrecognizable from Planescape as we know it and use less polished rules.

sciborg2's picture
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Joined: 2005-07-26
Creating our own game mechanics for Planescape and Planewalker

tailoring Pathfinder or 3.5 might be a better bet.

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NichG's picture
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Creating our own game mechanics for Planescape and Planewalker

I posted a game system I adapted from AEG's 7th Sea and Legend of the Five Rings that I've been using to run a Planescape campaign in the '7thscape' thread. I've run 20 games so far, and it's worked pretty well - no breaking the game via the power curve or anything like that yet. I don't know how well it'll handle multi-year campaigns though, but it can probably go as far as one year (50-60 games).

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