Charisma vs. Comeliness?

6 posts / 0 new
Last post
Agamemnon's picture
Offline
Namer
Joined: 2004-11-17
Charisma vs. Comeliness?

I'm curious to find out who (if any) uses the appearance factor in their gaming; afterall, the way one is physically perceived will play a definite role in how one is received.

Charisma is defined as a rare personal quality attributed to leaders who arouse fervent popular devotion and enthusiasm. My take on it (as I was introduced to it in the days of Basic D&D) is that Charisma is one's leadership ability. There have been those through the ages that were able to stir a crowd into a fervor simply by their words, actions or ideals; in most cases, these weren't the most attractive people to sit and stare at.

Comeliness is defined as the quality of being good looking and attractive. This attribute was introduced for a short (and I do mean short) time in the late days of Advanced D&D/early 2E D&D; which stands to reason that a player would like to know the physical attractiveness of his character when left to the randomness of the dice. Most recently, this attribute has resurfaced in some d20 accessories as 'Attractiveness.'

Those two points being considered, they are obviously NOT the same thing. How then can Chr be used to designate the physical attractiveness of a PC or NPC? If Com is used as an attribute, at what point does it become a factor? Will that factor influence the reaction chart? Should such a factor only be played up (or down) when a PC or NPC is far above (or below) average?

Just thoughts I thought I'd share.

Fare Thee Well!

ripvanwormer's picture
Offline
Factol
Joined: 2004-10-05
Charisma vs. Comeliness?

Charisma doesn't necessarily have anything to do with physical attractiveness (or a lich sorcerer wouldn't be able to use its spells). Those with high charisma are able to use their physical attractiveness to better effect, however, and they seem subjectively more attractive even if they would otherwise be considered ugly.

Charisma affects leadership ability. It also governs acting ability, animal handling, singing, comedy, dancing, and skill at musical instruments. And, of course, it governs the power of sorcery and the ability to channel positive energy as a weapon. It represents the force of one's personality and self-expression, one's ability to accurately convey the emotions one wishes to present to the world, whether or not they're "real."

Sorcery, then, is the magic of emotion. Every sorcerer spell is governed by subtle modulations of mood, and those with higher charisma are better able to master this emotion in order to cast spells.

Charisma, most broadly, is inner strength. It represents the raw power behind a character's mind, where intelligence represents mental dexterity and wisdom (as willpower) is mental constitution. Those with higher charisma have greater mastery over their inner strength as well as more inner strength to work with. A cleric banishing undead or a paladin smiting evil is using their own inner power to augment and control the power they channel from the Positive Energy Plane.

But yes, someone can be physically attractive but have a weak personality utterly unable to take advantage of it - such people will be used by others who covet their beauty rather than being able to use their beauty to control others. Someone, for example a hag or lich, can be hideously ugly but tremendously charismatic. Such beings can make themselves seem more physically appealing than they would otherwise be, if they choose to, or they can use their ugliness to control the world around them as others use beauty.

Iavas's picture
Offline
factotums
Joined: 2006-07-12
CHA

I've thought about this. It seems a character's Charisma score has to do not just with his appearance or the way he carries himself, but his overall ability to influence other people through his presence.

So, if a character adds a point to his charisma score while leveling up, he probably learned to carry himself better, thereby improving his Cha (ability to influence people). However, when said adventurer meets a Paeliryon and hugs its glittery manicure, his previously handsome facial physique melts into a blob of ickyness. He still carries himself the same, but people he talks to just can't get over the fact that half of his face is swinging around knee level. Therefore, his overall effect on people is diminished, as represented by the decreased Cha score.

That's how I figure it works. Hope that helps.

Agamemnon's picture
Offline
Namer
Joined: 2004-11-17
Charisma vs. Comeliness?

Very well, but from a Role Playing perspective, is it right to assign a random designation to the attribute like the other major six?

I went home to dig through some of my more ancient texts and discovered a chart I did in reference to the stats provided in 'Deities & Demigods' of Advanced D&D fame. My objective (at that time) was to provide the deities with stats that doubled that of a mere mortal. There were countless discussions (in my circle) pertaining to those PCs brash enough to assault an immortal. So I set out to secure the stance that one could do so but at a (severe) price.

Here then are some excerpts that detail the attribute in question and how it was to be used:

[img] http://s32.photobucket.com/albums/d29/Teifer/Planewalker/Page_3.jpg [/img]

[img]http://s32.photobucket.com/albums/d29/Teifer/Planewalker/Page_4.jpg [/img]

On looking at stats and how they're ranged at present, the upper figures go beyond 45. Should such a chart still be used with those kind of enhancements? Or be 'dumbed' down, so as to not create an unfavorable situation [READ: a beautiful PC strolling around entrancing everyone to get their way].

Thanks for your endulgence

Trias's picture
Offline
factotums
Joined: 2006-08-14
Charisma vs. Comeliness?

I agree that Comeliness and Charisma aren't the same thing - To me, Comeliness is just one of the many (discussed above) aspects of Charisma.

Azriael's picture
Offline
factotums
Joined: 2006-08-07
Charisma vs. Comeliness?

Just thought I'd put this into the discussion - Winston Churchill
Awesome leader, fantastic orator, incredibly charismatic, looked like a gigantic infant.
Another point of evidence - Mick Jagger.
Enough said

__________________

"We're making a better world. All of them, better worlds." - Anonomous Harmonium Officer

Planescape, Dungeons & Dragons, their logos, Wizards of the Coast, and the Wizards of the Coast logo are ©2008, Wizards of the Coast, a subsidiary of Hasbro Inc. and used with permission.