So, is there anyone interested in DMing a game and introducing some newbies (including me) to d20 Modern, Planescape-style?
Jeez, um, wow! I'm flattered, but I think only about three or four people in the entire planet are qualified to DM a UP game at this point. Maybe I'll give it a whirl once we get all the old material posted on the feature page. But I've never DMed a PBM game before.... :shock:
Well I'd DM a D20 modern game with planescape but I probably wouldn't do it as Urban Planescape as you guys have it. I'd do my own thing.
DMing? Designing would be good at the moment.
A great deal, if not most of DMing is designing. Though you have a point.
I'd still do my own thing, but might add to the discussion.
I sure am curious about this project, but someone would have to write something of high quality to convince me that it's not just a jumbled mish-mash of half-baked....mmm I'm hungry. 
Err, I'd like to see something concrete first before judging. Has anyone even written a decent synopsis of the concept yet? Yeah, I know, the old forums, but I'm too busy (lazy) to go looking for that. Could someone write a brief introduction here?
Also, will this be something like the techno-magic found in Final Fantasy 7 or Rifts, or something more like Steampunk? Dabus Difference Engines or Mercykiller Power Armour Mark IV?
Dabus difference engines? You mean Sigil's been ruled by Ada Lovelace all this time?
It turns out that Ada wrote the first Dabus Symbolic Language, called Daba.
So rebuses are just dabus entries into the International Obfuscated C Code Competition (or whatever it's actually called), and the Lady's edict was just a deliberately tedious way of writing
char edict[] = "Get milk and bread.";
It turns out that Ada wrote the first Dabus Symbolic Language, called Daba.
So the dabus become the Urban Planars first programmers.
If the dabus are the programmers, what are the moingos, some sort of hacker?
They are, and always will be, beings of pure abstract mathmatics, completely divorced from the concept of computers and programming.
Doesn't programming operate fundamentally on a mathematic level, such as machine language?
Programming, when you get right down to it, is simply telling a computer what to do in a language it can understand. Math is seldom involved unless it doesn't go any higher than basic algebra.
Programming, when you get right down to it, is simply telling a computer what to do in a language it can understand. Math is seldom involved unless it doesn't go any higher than basic algebra.
The word computer, doesn't it originate from a Latin word?
Yes. No. Partly. [/rule-of-threes]
Programming operates in a good many ways, most of which rely on passing simple instructions to the machine beneath. These instructions are implemented mathematically, and even the characters that you're looking at now are stored as numbers inside the machine. Even your hyper-expensive fancy graphics card is just a calculator that's immensely efficient at matrix maths - so much so that research has been done into finding a way to use an idle GPU as a coprocessor.
Programming is done by People™, using Words™. Oftentimes the compiler for these words is written in them too, and hand-compiled. For most programmers, the only numbers that they need throw about the place are the ones relevent to the problem domain (unless they've entered the IOCCC).
How does a machine know how to interpret the words?
To get from your program text to something executable you use a program called a 'compiler'. Program execution relies on numbers... but could even a creature of pure maths keep up with 3 billion mathematical operations each second? And pipelining? And process switching?
Based on the description of moingos, it would be difficult to ascertain how fast they can compute numbers. Suffice it to say, any planar computer network would have to contend with the creatures, either using them as compiliers, objects (for OOP), or treating them like computer virii based on their mathematical nature.
Computers don't rely much on abstract maths, though. Even then, I can't imagine them straying too far from the binary layer of Logos (the rebooted Mechanus), since it's built on maths and formal logic. It's pretty that way, too - modrons (or similar) could act as mechanus exemplars on the hardware side, while moingos could tend to the software - terminating infinite loops, maintaining functions, updating libraries, checking assertions, passing arguments and managing process tables.
Planar computer networks would bounce stuff around through the (pseudo)plane of Cyberspace... which might just be the program(s) that Logos is running. That said, I could imagine crafty technomages summoning moingos to go through formal proofs on software.
Planar computer networks would bounce stuff around through the (pseudo)plane of Cyberspace... which might just be the program(s) that Logos is running. That said, I could imagine crafty technomages summoning moingos to go through formal proofs on software.
Yes but that bases cyberspace heavilly in the Lawful side of things. To get the feel of a true cyberspace I think there needs to be a chaos side. Something to utterly confuse modrons as the basic processes are completly based on math and logic, but the whole seems chaotic.
Planar computer networks would bounce stuff around through the (pseudo)plane of Cyberspace... which might just be the program(s) that Logos is running. That said, I could imagine crafty technomages summoning moingos to go through formal proofs on software.
Yes but that bases cyberspace heavilly in the Lawful side of things. To get the feel of a true cyberspace I think there needs to be a chaos side. Something to utterly confuse modrons as the basic processes are completly based on math and logic, but the whole seems chaotic.
That would be fuzzy logic, or trinary circuits, if you prefer.
I see moingos being capable of performing binary mathemeatics with great accuracy. After all, if you can calculate theoretical mathematics, binary should be quite easy.
Now, now. I didn't say it's definitely what's running on the infinite curcuitboard, just that it might be. No-one knows what's running on Logos; maybe it does the same job that Mechanus has been working at forever.
The plane of Cyberspace might be a layer of the outlands, or a 'layer' of the astral, or a whole new transitive, or a piece of Limbo that was bashed into seeming order by the Mechanus reboot, or some other fun new brand of plane. No-one knows, and I think it's all the better if no-one knows.
Programming, when you get right down to it, is simply telling a computer what to do in a language it can understand. Math is seldom involved unless it doesn't go any higher than basic algebra.
There's more to programming than simply "telling a computer what to do". A certain degree of understanding algorithms and how components in the computer relate to each other also work into the effort of putting a program together, not to mention compilation and finally execution.
As for "machine language".... That's an entirely different matter altogether. Machine, or rather Assembly, language deals with creating and configuring a processor base BIOS system (binary input/output system). Of course, assembly language programming is mostly a lost art these days, but there are still enough of us older generation types who remember the good ol' days of prototype programming.
Nonsense! I don't need my loops or my program to terminate, and postconditions are for the weak.
There was that proof-of-concept virus someone cooked up in 64-bit assembly a while back.
Nonsense! I don't need my loops or my program to terminate, and postconditions are for the weak.
I remember the first mistake I made when I started learning to program... It sent the computer into an infinite loop which practically brought down the entire archaic network that the school was using at the time.
There was that proof-of-concept virus someone cooked up in 64-bit assembly a while back.
I'm not sure I entirely like the idea of rebus and moigo connected. Even if you take the view that all language is 'programming', then I'm not seeing how logical puzzles made out of illusory pictures can create creatures that are made of pure maths.
Especially since I thought the dabus programmer bit was a joke that got out of hand.
I do still rather like the idea of Moignos as binary exemplars, though. Moigno is to loop as Modron is to gear (or capacitor?)? And just what should we do with Modrons? I don't think they'd need to change themselves much, just what they do... and would they have circuit spirits?
I remember the first mistake I made when I started learning to program... It sent the computer into an infinite loop which practically brought down the entire archaic network that the school was using at the time.
Oh, of course. Nobody makes that mistake. Ever.
...
Oh, wait. That's "nobody completely stops making that mistake".
Perhaps there could be alternate types of moignos... based around how simple or complex the program is...
As for the modrons... Glorified calculators perhaps?
Or just different kinds to oversee different bits of programs, that show up and do their various jobs as necessary. A recursion moigno would be very interesting to see.
'Quicksorts' and 'merge listings' as well. Good idea.
They could be responsible for the processing of information that is contained with the dabus archives. They're set to work when certain tasks need to be performed. Their tasks would relate to their overall function... recursive moignos for finding repeating pieces of information until complete, and quicksorts for conducting immediate searches through particulate areas of information.
Sorry this is not quite on topic, but where can I find more info on the Modrons war with formains and the Reboot of mechanus?
Um, whoa! Dming?
Jeez, um, wow! I'm flattered, but I think only about three or four people in the entire planet are qualified to DM a UP game at this point. Maybe I'll give it a whirl once we get all the old material posted on the feature page. But I've never DMed a PBM game before.... :shock: