Brainstorming session, part 5: Miscellaneous

In my opinion, the Shadow should not be considered a transitive plane. Even if there was a shadow equivalent of every plane in the multiverse, which I don't think is currently the case, then there's still the question of where it connects them. Is there a deep shadow? If so, how is that anything but a darker version of the Ethereal?

Personally, I see the Ordial as a much more interesting way to complete the Rule of Three in regards to transitive planes. First of all, it explains the connection, however faint, between the Outer and Inner planes. Secondly, there's none of the trouble of having a demiplane evolve to not only connect the entire known multiverse but also other multiverses. Finally, it's not very well described, giving us the freedom to play with it.

As for the Modrons, here's my take on it (whether anybody asks for it or not. )

First, I'd like to say that I love the idea of modrons, despite identifying with the chaotic bend in most respects. They seem like funny little walking blocky blokes to most, but there's no arguing that a Modron war unit, or even their semi-annual stomp around the Great Wheel, is terrifying to behold. Their almost cartoonish appearance (not to mention childlike naivete of their rouge adventurers) contrasts with their mechanical/logical thought processes.

Imagine a modron army... no try to forget that they look like anthropomorphic televisions with crossbows. They are, in essence, run by what boils down to a computer program. No mercy, no fear, no pause. The formians are like ants, albeit very intelligent ones. They are all about obedience, but they still have some chaotic elements (for instance, I don't believe they fight in formation). The modrons, although organic, are more like robots. They are about logic and numbers. Having them force themselves to evolve into a more fitting appearance appeals to me. They would be less comedic relief and more potentially terrifying machine conscience (think The Matrix).

However!

The modrons are, despite WotC's efforts, exemplars. Changing their overall appearance would be like changing all slaads from toads to velociraptors to make them more terrifying. The slaads described in 3e material are a bit more frightening than their fat 2e equivalents, but they're still basically bipedal, chaotic toads. Similarly, I think if it is agreed to proceed along the modron evolution line, the change should not be too dramatic. They should still be blocks on legs, but more streamlined and efficient. There should still be all the normal categories, from monodrone up to Primus. After all, their thought patterns have not changed. But instead of being "a goofy face in on a cylinder with arms and legs", it should be "a cylindrical machine with numerous multifunctional limbs spread around the base in equal incriments for maximum utility". Instead of being "a walking box carrying a crossbow" it should be a "cubic lifeform with bolt firing appendages". Do you get my drift? Don't redefine the wheel, redescribe it.

In conclusion:
"'Cutest' is a subjective term. I prefer the designation 'fearsome cubed warrior'." --Nordom, Planescape: Torment

Monodrones spawn right under Primus in Mechanus, though, not out on the battlefield, so if you start out with an army, the last type of unit in that army you will face is the highest rank there was to begin with (and that's if all modrons everywhere stayed alive). The first type of unit to disappear, however, would be the monodrone (or, if none were present, the lowest caste above that) because they would either be killed first due to a lower challenge rating or be promoted to replace fallen leaders.

So, technically, modron armies are ferocious and tough, but not invincible.

The 3e stats for them say that the nearest monodrone splits into two when one dies. So, yes, they would be invincible.

They were in a web enhancement, here.

Heh. The whole "Invincible army" thing could be useful for plots, even if it makes for unsatisfying encounters, if the BBEG has managed to acquire a Modron army and is using it to conquer the world.

2e stats are in the PS boxed set Monstrous Compendium Appendix/insert.

The Great Modron March had it that new monodrones emerged from Primus' pool in Regulus. Thus, the modron parade got smaller and smaller as it moved across the Great Ring.

Which is how it should be. If modrons were invincible, the adventure wouldn't work.

Maybe the latest Primus decided to change the way things work, as far as monodrone-spawning?

No, it wouldn't. It would make modron armies invincible, unless the enemy managed to wipe out every monodrone present simultaneously. Maybe the latest Primus saw how the last one met his end, and decided to make the minimum change to maximize modron capabilities to prevent someone from doing something like that again.

I think the modrons could use some more base ranks after pentadrone. If you think about it, the various 'ton ranks are the modron version of unique creatures, their equivalent of the rulers of Hell (Dukes on up to LoftNine) or the Princes of Hell. Currently, the modron Secundus, of which only four exist at any given time, are matched in power by the Pit Fiend and the Balor, of which an infinite number exists at any one time.

I think the base ranks should be exended up to a CR 20-ish decadrone, which would leave the heirarch casts to be treated the same as other planar heirarchies.
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Another avanue of evolution for the modrons is simply to create new varients (like the two winged varients of the monodrone and the quadrone that already exist). These varients could have special purpose abilities, making the modrons as a whole more versitile.

Personally I'm inclined to leave their old class system alone - and instead upgrade the stats to make up the difference. As noted above with that whole evolution note I tossed in.

It may be of importance to note that while there are infinate balor and pitfiends - there are also infinate Secundus... in the long run. They have four at a time, but on death, another modron is promoted (or Primus spits out another one). So there's a little less need to make them teh uber.

.....

So..... How do we wanna turn all of this into a PC orriented module? Have the players investigating why the modrons suddenly went quiet...?

That makes a CR jump of around 4CRs per cast, kind of a lot. On the other hand, it does leave lots of room for more varients, with different CRs.

Very true, however, there can still only be 4 Secundi at any one time. On a large scale, 4 Secundi can't be everywhere at once, especially since its stated that 2 never leave Primus. On a battlefield scale, the Secundi are vulnarable to having their proverbial legs cut out from under them: if their opponents concentrate on the lowest cast first, they need only fight the Secundi once.

Sounds like a good start. I'd say it begins something like this:
After the incident with Tenebrous, the modrons fell silent. Almost like they've disappeared from the multiverse. Formians have expanded throughout Mechanus, and new castes of inevitables have appeared, seemingly from nowhere. Eventually, some cutter's gonna be curious about it. Maybe some slaad want to know if their eternal enemies are finally gone (albeit, apparently replaced by new eternal enemies). Maybe an archon is curious about the status of the modrons, as he personally had a contract with them to acquire modron aid in certain circumstances, and said circumstances are approaching. He's really hoping to be able to call on modron help for this problem. Anyway, somebody sends the PCs in to Mechanus to discern the status of the modron race. And that, really, is where the adventure begins. What do they find? What have the modrons been up to? I like the idea of an upgrade underway, but there are many directions we could go with that.

Well, if the Modrons are looking to test their new varients in a combat situation, then they need a something to fight.
The biggest war in the Multiverse is the Blood War. Fighters (especially mortal fighters) in the Blood War are battle hardened vetrens. Or at least the ones that survive a few battles are, anyway. And if they survived even one battle, one must assume they are good at what they do.

I can see the Modrons doing an intial test using their new varients by capturing a large number of combatants from Blood War Battlefields. using some sort of 'Transporter Modron'. They dimension door/teleprt/planeshift in, grab someone, and leave the way they came, all as fast and precise as a modron can.

After all, on such a bloody battlefiend, no one will miss a dozen troops here or there.

Then the modrons use these captured troops as test subjects. If you want your modron to be effective in battle (assume the modrons are putting their new varieties through combat tests, the simple things like locomotion would have been handled before) You want it to be able to hold its own against a larger force. There should, however, be situations where a Modron undergoing testing suddenly fails, or trips, or something else goes wrong. These are *tests*. Or Modrone varieties that have easily exploitable weaknesess.

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Seperate idea. One of the things thats always Bothered me about the Modrons is that they possess a higher level of technoledgy, and yet they dont seem to make use of it. New varieties of modrons are fine, but what about new modrons designed to use weapons and equipment of a higher progress level then the rest of the planes has at their disposal?

I'm not talking about Modrons with machine guns here, but a few low level firearms might be in order. Think 'Steampunk.'

Yep! It defiantely could!
What level do we want to put our PCs at for this?

Currently the modrons experience a large gap in CR between the pentadrone (CR 4) and the Decaton (CR 10), so many of the changes will probably fall around this range, as long as we make no major changes to the current modron casts.

Therefore: PC levels 8-10?

I was sugesting that the modrons would test their creations on adventurer parties that entered modron teritory. The Blood War is, to my mind, too uncontroled: for the modrons to interfear in it at all is to risk prematurely revealing their addaptations to the Multiverse at large. Much better to keep things under control, ie, in entirely in modron teritory.

Step 1: Send modrons to Sigil.
Step 2: ...
Step 3: Profit!

Right... but seriously, let's say they're doing weird things. Things nobody can figure out why a modron is doing them. What's going on? They're testing the upgrades. Some of the non-combat streamlining of how the new modron is expected to operate.

Precisely.

They've probably got models that have an inherent racial +10 to disguise checks to disguise themselves as a gnome, now.

OK, how about this?
Tenebrous leaves, and a new Primus is made. The first thing he does is send out a call. All non-rogues immediately get the irresistable urge to return to Regulus. Probably by the time of Faction War the only Modrons to be found outside of Regulus are rogues. The Modrons wall themselves up, and then create the creshe-forges of the Inevitables. The Inevitables answer directly to the Modron Hierarchy, and were created because a) the Modrons have decided that they need to do more about enforcing Law, and b) the Modrons need to work out some of their own problems, and the Inevitables can be somwhat autonomus. The first Inevitables show up probably shortly after the Vecna incident, and have been around ever since.
Once the Inevitables are up and running, the Modrons work on upgrading themselves, specifically the base ranks. First, they make all of them twice as powerful, makeing Monodrones CR1, Duodrones CR2, Tridrones CR4, Quadrones CR6, and Pentadrones CR8. Second they utilize their own transformative potential (as is seen in promotion, going rogue, and the Quadrones ability to change arms into wings) to make the base castes more adaptable. This would develop over several years and in multiple phases.
Phase 1: Monodrones: Base form only
Duodrones: Base form only
Tridrones: Base form and 1 additional form
Quadrones: Base form and 2 additional forms
Pentadrones: Base form and 4 additional forms
Phase 2: M: Base
D: Base + 1
T: Base + 2
Q: Base + 3
P: Base + 4
Phase 3: M: Base
D: Base + 1
T: Base + 3
Q: Base + 7
P: Base + 16
Phase 4: M: Base
D: Base + 3
T: Base + 8
Q: Base + 15
P: Base + 24
and finally, after an eon
Phase 5: M: Base
D: Base + 3
T: Base + 26
Q: Base + 255
P: Base + 3124
OK that's a little silly, but that would be years off anyway. They could at least be done with Phase 1 by the beginning of PSCS, and Phase 2 could be introduced part way in. Transformations between forms would probably take at least a minute if not longer. Base forms look exactly like they did in 2e. Oh, and Rogues would still revert to pre-upgrade Quadrone stats.

In the intrests of integrating Inevitables into PS, considering that they've never really existed in the setting prior to 3E (2E Maruts are not 3.x Maruts), there is going to have to be some tweaking. Saying that they are new makes more sense than yet annother retcon.

The planes are infinite, and there's plenty of room to add major races without needing to call it a "retcon." It's quite likely there are all sorts of important planar beings your PCs haven't met yet.

2e maruts and 3e maruts are essentially identical, and their 3e slant as enforcers of mortality comes directly from the flavor text in the Planescape Monstrous Compendium Appendix. Having all the other inevitables appear all of a sudden over the last few years is too extreme and unlikely for my tastes - and if that did happen, they should be the creations of the Vedic pantheon, like the maruts.

I prefer to think that the slide of Nemausus happened in two stages; the formians were responsible for the loss of much of the layer thousands of years ago, while the Harmonium finished it off a decade or so back.

I like eberron or rather I like some of the ideas presented in eberron.

I know that I readily included NPC that were from eberron to my campaign they were mostly comic relief or just comic.

Anywho, this is how I treated the whole thing well despite the whole eberron cosmology and all that, I figure that the best way to introduce such characters is that they come from a one way portal.

There is plenty of ways to explain it away.

And it avoids clashing with current fluff for eberron because if it one way then how could anything be reported of it in eberron.
Ok sure there are ways and it has holes but not big major one that tear universes apart.

Also I think that it adds a very interesting element to whole planescape setting theologically they clash which makes for good story.
In eberron alignment means very little, where as in planescape.

Anywho, I did note some stories with an Inquisitor being corrupted by planar demon not one of the eberron moon phase thingies.
(I will admit I am not an expert on the subject of eberron however one of players is very well informed on the subject)

So anywho, there’s some of those ideas for brainstorming and such.

Opps my brain just kicked into gear again another idea would be some short modules/adventures with pre designed characters that have a set out come to set up the mood and current state of Sigil in a more visceral way to new players/DMs to this setting.

Also something that seems a lot like more set up for Urban Planescape rather than here but still perhaps a suggested style of play.
Super Hero'esk? Style adventures, comic book?
With the lack of visible authorities, it seems like a good time for individuals rather than organizations rising to power.

I.e. Villains/Heroes. Ala the classic comic book style.

Not as full as cheese as the comic books though.

(This looks like it's starting to fade into ramblings )

Also something I did in my campaign since music played a big part in it the wristbands that were described in the .... Faces of Sigil?
(I will look that up and put it up what book and page number after)
Instead of constantly humming a tune, they had a single song on them that could be reduced or increased in volume and also restarted.

This was mainly because of the duo of comic relief characters I described had there own them music for before they would come and fight someone or do something.
A little bit of fun.
(End Ramblings)

Also another thing I did something that, could possible be adopted, in a different form to how I presented it.
Is an adventures guild.

This wasn't some sort of union for adventures.
There are high membership fees which payed for updating of passwords for the various guild meets and the changes of portals to the location and gate keys.
It is some what like mercenary guild in that jobs were presented for money but there was a reverse bidding system and access to 'jobs' was based on an 'honour' system where the parties were rated on level of success and various parameters that was put in place by the 'employer'.

But all of the jobs incoming are reviewed and put out according to the guilds will, so basically blood war recruiting drives are avoided.
So these filters allow for the 'correct' level of characters to get certain jobs.
The other thing was very much prestige thing to be accepted into the guild they need some sort of backer so that guilds name doesn't get tarnished.
If a new group turns out to be not what they hoped they can lay the blame squarely on someone shoulders and the guild avoids humiliation themselves.

Also the guild was not just for good/neutral characters there was and equal volume of evil characters in there.
And also 'monster'.

The long and the short of it is, though there is many groups of adventures out there this makes the adventures special and by the same token it does the same thing for evil characters.
It's an easy place to put recurring villains without making every single encounter deadly, so you can raise the notoriety of a villain by making the characters experience there 'crimes' seeing what jobs they take.

Also for those still here the whole reason for the reverse bidding system is one to keep guild filled with jinx and so that adventures can take jobs that would provide them with some sort of advantage beyond jinx.
Certain jobs would provide information by there very nature.
Also certain jobs would be well sort after so there price would be reduced and other avoided so there price would remain high.
Also taking jobs for free gains you higher levels of honour.

Ok it seems a bit too much like a sales pitch but I don't have any organized notes on it.

Well there are my miscellaneous ideas in regard to planescape.
Seems to be a bit more there than I had expected but meh perhaps you will find something useful.