Brainstorming: Making an Atlas of the Planes

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Gerzel's picture
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factotums
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Brainstorming: Making an Atlas of the Planes

Well I've been looking around and have come to the conclusion, among other things, that Planewalker needs to have a planar atlas. What it needs to do is give people an easy way to find just that right hellhole for the job. Now I know that other atlases have been made and put online but I am unaware of Planewalker itself having one. Then again there is always the possibility on this that I'm just being a berk and didn't notice the one we have. Anyhoo here is a quick list of things I think this planar atlas aught to have:

A. I think it should be written in an in-character style as if it were something a planewalker might actually pick up and use. Thus I'd like to keep most real darks to a minimum or at least inside sidebars or well defined and separated sections.

B. As an in-character work it also needs a publisher. A short forward on who wrote it and how much it costs, perhaps from the perspective of someone trying to sell it, should do this. Also sprinkling advertisements throughout the pages for kips, grub and bub, equipment and other things (Possibly putting much of the DM and dark stuff in these parts) would add to the feel of it.

C. Another item that would add to the feel is have different contributors for different parts and articles.

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Brainstorming: Making an Atlas of the Planes

Are you talking about a website section (Check portals) or an actual book-esque product?

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Brainstorming: Making an Atlas of the Planes

"Clueless" wrote:
Are you talking about a website section (Check portals) or an actual book-esque product?

A bit of both, but yes I would like a more book esque style.

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I would say that's a pretty tall order. You're asking someone to essentially replicate the entire line of Planescape boxed sets. Care to take the lead on that multi-year project? Eye-wink

As for the atlas part, you would need a competent cartographer, but it's hard getting artists to work for free.

Don't worry, the PSCS team will have something about the planes in general out soon. I don't know if we can do more than that.

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"Krypter" wrote:
I would say that's a pretty tall order. You're asking someone to essentially replicate the entire line of Planescape boxed sets. Care to take the lead on that multi-year project? Eye-wink

As for the atlas part, you would need a competent cartographer, but it's hard getting artists to work for free.

Don't worry, the PSCS team will have something about the planes in general out soon. I don't know if we can do more than that.

Oh of coarse I don't expect anything to be quickly out just because I talk about it. This is just getting ideas for something. A suggestion for the future, if you will.

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Brainstorming: Making an Atlas of the Planes

Well, being something of a cartographer by profession (geographic information systems, to be exact), I certainly appreciate a good atlas, but it sounds to me like you're thinking more of a travelogue, or diary of a journey. An atlas is simply a collection of maps, nothing more. There are already some good maps of the planes out there, most notably the one in the basic boxed set. There are also small maps in the new Manual of the Planes, and plenty of location maps scattered throughout the Planescape line.

It would seem to be redundant to replicate all that fine work.

A travelogue (with some location maps) would be a better idea and to my knowledge has not been done in Planescape. So that's a starting point. I always enjoy reading the Chronicles of Talislanta. It's an exciting travelogue with great illustrations and evocative writing. Perhaps someone could do a similar Chronicles of a Planescape Traveller with location maps and illustrations. Still a lot of work though. In the meantime, you can check out the novella called Around the Ring in 80 Gates, on this site.

Is that kind of what you had in mind?

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Brainstorming: Making an Atlas of the Planes

"Krypter" wrote:
Well, being something of a cartographer by profession (geographic information systems, to be exact), I certainly appreciate a good atlas, but it sounds to me like you're thinking more of a travelogue, or diary of a journey. An atlas is simply a collection of maps, nothing more. There are already some good maps of the planes out there, most notably the one in the basic boxed set. There are also small maps in the new Manual of the Planes, and plenty of location maps scattered throughout the Planescape line.

It would seem to be redundant to replicate all that fine work.

A travelogue (with some location maps) would be a better idea and to my knowledge has not been done in Planescape. So that's a starting point. I always enjoy reading the Chronicles of Talislanta. It's an exciting travelogue with great illustrations and evocative writing. Perhaps someone could do a similar Chronicles of a Planescape Traveller with location maps and illustrations. Still a lot of work though. In the meantime, you can check out the novella called Around the Ring in 80 Gates, on this site.

Is that kind of what you had in mind?

Not really...well sorta. What I hoped for is a travel guide. Something written to be sold to be a guide to the planes from a planewalker's point of view. Perhaps a series. "So your going to Gehena" or "Walking the Waste" ect. It would have both maps and descriptions of areas, hazards and things. Basically a plane by plane outline of what could be easilly gained as in character knowledge for pcs for just a few stingers or a couple of jink.

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Hmm, that would certainly be more doable. It's what we're trying to do in the Lay of the Land section under Planar Portals. Something like this, written for the hinterlands:

/portals/node/

I think you'd have to get the ball rolling first though, most of the planewalker staff already have a dozen projects they're working on. .

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"Krypter" wrote:
Hmm, that would certainly be more doable. It's what we're trying to do in the Lay of the Land section under Planar Portals. Something like this, written for the hinterlands:

/portals/node/

I think you'd have to get the ball rolling first though, most of the planewalker staff already have a dozen projects they're working on. .

I think your right on the ball rolling part. The article you posted was interesting but not really what I had in mind. I've got a story due soon so my creative writing is going to that (School does take precedence). Anyhoo it is about planescape. I might just post it when I'm done.

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Brainstorming: Making an Atlas of the Planes

I have a few maps of some unknown areas of the planes (a small cube on acheron, an island in the abyss etc.) but they're still not in ink (or whatever english language calls that thing that is used to draw over the pen) and a bit too cartoonish for public use :oops:

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Krypter wrote:
I would say that's a pretty tall order. You're asking someone to essentially replicate the entire line of Planescape boxed sets. Care to take the lead on that multi-year project? Eye-wink

As for the atlas part, you would need a competent cartographer, but it's hard getting artists to work for free.

Quote:

I am a huge fan of books such as Gnomes, The sketchbook of Dr. Viktor Frankenstein, and Froud's Fairies line.

If there is a serious writer's undertaking for this task, and there is no question of a legality issue, *shrug* I'm the man for your artwork. I can email some images I have done in the past, and new stuff for PW is coming consistantly, so I think I am up to the task. Just keep me in mind if you want an illustration for your proposals to Dungeon or Dragon Magazine, or for the stuff here on PW.

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Brainstorming: Making an Atlas of the Planes

*in the background a small figure starts twirling a lasso with an intent stare at the self-declared artist....*

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That's a great offer, Watashi and jordarad. I'm a huge fan of Froud's work as well. The Goblin Companion is very neat and I use it in my games. If Gerzel is willing to do the first write-up to start the ball rolling, and you guys are willing to do cartographic illustrations, then we're set.

I can contribute some articles later if desired and organize the files in the planar portals section. Perhaps this can be tied in to the Snail's Outfitters Tours.

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"Krypter" wrote:
That's a great offer, Watashi and jordarad. I'm a huge fan of Froud's work as well. The Goblin Companion is very neat and I use it in my games. If Gerzel is willing to do the first write-up to start the ball rolling, and you guys are willing to do cartographic illustrations, then we're set.

I can contribute some articles later if desired and organize the files in the planar portals section. Perhaps this can be tied in to the Snail's Outfitters Tours.

I'd be willing though I don't know exactly were to start.

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After giving it a little thought I think that I might as well start with a gate town and its surroundings.

I think I'll start with Tradegate as that city seems to be a good jumping off point and should have some good details to use. Of coarse now I'll need to do research and it will take a while to actually write. Might also be good to take a look at some real travel guides.

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"jordarad" wrote:
I am a huge fan of books such as Gnomes, The sketchbook of Dr. Viktor Frankenstein, and Froud's Fairies line. If there is a serious writer's undertaking for this task, and there is no question of a legality issue, *shrug* I'm the man for your artwork.

Question of the day: Do you take commissions?

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I, currently having no hand in planewalker projects, would love to lend a hand in any way/shape/form possible. Although My planescape book collection is still small, any mainly focused on sigil at that. But Im willing. And I have no life. So I have plenty of time.

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Its okay Fid, If it helps, I dont have a life either.

Btw: are there any significant changes to the planes from the planescape series and the Manual of the Planes? Im not talking from a roleplaying sense, Im talking from a machanical, effects of a given plane sense.

Just wondering, because if there is, then my only other sources for specific planes is the pathguy site. Which is a great site, but I am forced to doubt in connonicity. ( Rushes off to submit the word connonicity to webster and earn himself a shiny nickle)

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I think we're generally following the 3E guidelines set by the MotP. The mechanics haven't changed, although new options (like planar breaches and planar touchstones) were introduced in the Planar Handbook. As well as class substitution levels, which I don't fully understand myself.

Fidrikon, you can download the entire Planescape line of books from SVGames for $4.79 a pop. It's a great reference library even if you have the hardcopies. If you'd like to contribute, then by all means pick a gate-town or location and write a travelogue for it. There's plenty of room here for good writers...especially if you have some free time.

Li Po's site is definitely non-canon, though he has some great ideas. I believe his is a Christian take on Planescape.

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"Fidrikon" wrote:
I, currently having no hand in planewalker projects, would love to lend a hand in any way/shape/form possible. Although My planescape book collection is still small, any mainly focused on sigil at that. But Im willing. And I have no life. So I have plenty of time.

What kind of writing experience do you have? Any ideas about how you'd like to contribute?

__________________

-Gabriel Sorrel, www.planewalker.com

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Brainstorming: Making an Atlas of the Planes

Writing experiance? well, I wrote a sci-fi book over the last couple years, which is still in its editing stages (rewriting chapters is a pain) but a publishers has yet to even see it so im not sure it counts.

I started a short story on the forums, but after 5 chapters it was fryed because I just don't know enough about planescape yet to get past one part. (restrains himself from bashing his head in with a rock for writing himself into a corner. the struggle lasts for a few seconds, after which Fid finally returns to his computer.)

But like I said, Im willing to help in any way possible.
And could someone tell me what a travelouge is? I think I know, but I dont want to run down the wrong road here.

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In a fantasy setting I believe a travelogue would be a diary or lecture about travelling in specific places, accompanied by illustrations and possibly maps. Something like this, for Eberron:

http://www.coveworld.net/eberron/across-eberron-1.jpg

http://www.coveworld.net/eberron/gallery.html

I find it to be one of the best ways to quickly introduce someone to a setting. It's fun, artistic and not too wordy. Also, no there are rules or statistics, which is my preference.

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Hmm...

I'm not really going for a travel log. As I understand it, a travel log is a log of an individual's travels through an area.

What I am going for is a set of Travel Guides. Or more specifically a book written to help someone who will be traveling to an area and usually also is encouraging those travels. A travel guide would not have a specific route in it as a log would. It would instead be more generalized written to cover the highlights and pitfalls of an area as well as to espouse the lesser known charms of a place. Also a guide would be written either by a collaboration of several authors, or by one author who has visited and traveled through an area many times. I suppose the last is the biggest difference in that a log is just one time traveled through where a guide is written from the perspective of a veteran and is in a way a summary of their travels.

Now I don't want to discount or put down the logs, but just say that they are not what I want to do.

Part of this is I want to summarize the known aspects of an area, the layout major points ect. and then go in and expand adding more places and perhaps talking about towns that are near gate towns and the smaller places not really seen in cannon yet. Of coarse no guide can really be ultimately comprehensive thus leaving plenty of room for a gm to add their own stuff while still keeping this useful for all. Also I want this written as characters would know. DM Darks ect would be kept to sidebars. Also I would like to put in small sidebar adds.

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"Clueless" wrote:

Question of the day: Do you take commissions?

Yep. I've done freelance work since I was in High School. Email me at [REDACTED] and we'll talk.

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I think a travelogue (or just a traveler's guide) written by the noted Planar Guide Tarsheva Longreach would be the way to go on this one. Several illustrations, but written by a wise cutter writing it who knows her stuff, I've got a planewalker artist character who could be along for the ride to explain the illustrations...

OR

a myriad mix of cutters from across the planes (ala Faces of Evil) which give their own take on matters.

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Quote:
I'm not really going for a travel log. As I understand it, a travel log is a log of an individual's travels through an area.

What I am going for is a set of Travel Guides. Or more specifically a book written to help someone who will be traveling to an area and usually also is encouraging those travels. A travel guide would not have a specific route in it as a log would. It would instead be more generalized written to cover the highlights and pitfalls of an area as well as to espouse the lesser known charms of a place. Also a guide would be written either by a collaboration of several authors, or by one author who has visited and traveled through an area many times. I suppose the last is the biggest difference in that a log is just one time traveled through where a guide is written from the perspective of a veteran and is in a way a summary of their travels.

Now I don't want to discount or put down the logs, but just say that they are not what I want to do.

Part of this is I want to summarize the known aspects of an area, the layout major points ect. and then go in and expand adding more places and perhaps talking about towns that are near gate towns and the smaller places not really seen in cannon yet. Of coarse no guide can really be ultimately comprehensive thus leaving plenty of room for a gm to add their own stuff while still keeping this useful for all. Also I want this written as characters would know. DM Darks ect would be kept to sidebars. Also I would like to put in small sidebar adds.

Gerzel, I think I might just have an idea of what you are looking for. Your description of what you want seems to me like you are looking for a version of the Manual of the Planes, but it being in more of a format, style, and flavor that was used in the creation of the original planescape books. The one that immediatly comes to mind is In the Cage: A guide to sigil.

It has the artwork, the advertisments, the dm's darks, all the information, the good old planescape feel, and that new car scent. Is this a correct assumption?

If I missed the point entirely, sorry. But hey, thats why Im the Berk, right?

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"BERK" wrote:
Gerzel, I think I might just have an idea of what you are looking for. Your description of what you want seems to me like you are looking for a version of the Manual of the Planes, but it being in more of a format, style, and flavor that was used in the creation of the original planescape books. The one that immediatly comes to mind is In the Cage: A guide to sigil.

It has the artwork, the advertisments, the dm's darks, all the information, the good old planescape feel, and that new car scent. Is this a correct assumption?

If I missed the point entirely, sorry. But hey, thats why Im the Berk, right?

Yeah that's getting close to it. I'm currently researching into Tradegate and surroundings. I will probably cover from Tradegate going spireward to Tir na Og (which eventually will get its own guide) then along the ring about half way towards the next two gate towns or ecstasy to excelsior and ringward about as far out. Not only do I plan on going over the existing material but also adding a few sites along the way.

The guide will be about the size of a pamphlet, around five to twenty pages roughly including illustrations and room for layout. Also, because of the malleable nature of the outlands much of the text will describe how to reach the different areas and will be available for reasonable prices at many reputable shops.

All I have been able to find of these areas is about a page at most in any one area of text dealing with them. I want to give a good run through of the outlands and hopefully inspire players and dms to go and explore further into the lands around the spire.

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So, we are focusing on the outlands now?

come to think of it, there hasnt been much in the way of good outlands guide. I mean, even with the gate town, towns shifting over, *The Spire*, and the Rilmani, no one ever seemed to portray the outlands as more than a planar highway. It might have its sights and cool attributes, but your just passing through. Except for merchants, who really goes to the outlands for the sake of going to the outlands?

A good outlands guide could really change that.

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"Fidrikon" wrote:
So, we are focusing on the outlands now?

come to think of it, there hasnt been much in the way of good outlands guide. I mean, even with the gate town, towns shifting over, *The Spire*, and the Rilmani, no one ever seemed to portray the outlands as more than a planar highway. It might have its sights and cool attributes, but your just passing through. Except for merchants, who really goes to the outlands for the sake of going to the outlands?

A good outlands guide could really change that.

Yeah that's the idea. Gather the old info and give new stuff. I say focus on the outlands for now, simply because there is a lot of outlands to focus on. I'd like to do a footprint about the size I outlined above and move through the outlands, doing each of the gate towns, tir na nog and the other half of the spire base. That would make for a bunch of 5 to twenty page books or pamphlets...guides.

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It would be cool if one of the logs was made like call of chtulhu (the story). A diary of the man who hadn't had much experience with the real things but did loads of research and found many maps, scraps of letters, poems, sketches and things like that Smiling

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It's true that the Outlands info is scattered across many products. Even just compiling it into a single document would be beneficial. The Outlands are essentially the Miscellaneous pile in Planescape, and this could do with a thorough overview from a new angle.

This is a great project idea. If/when it gets completed, I'm sure we could feature it on Planewalker as a special section.

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I'm not home this week so i didn't bring any maps, but I made one on the spot:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/Almighty_Watashi/ysgard_island.jpg

Let me know if you need anything like this Laughing out loud

(yes, i know the labels aren't easy to comprehend, I'm working on it :oops: )

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That's pretty good. A slightly humorous take on fantasy. Needs a bit more detail or shading, but a good shot nonetheless. Is this supposed to be on Ysgard or the Outlands?

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Gerzal, is this the kind of thing your looking for?

And yes, I realize the final copy would have to have much more information on gate towns.

The Berk’s Guide to the Outlands.

Welcome, Cutter, to the Plane of Concordant Opposition. Most, if not all, planeswalkers have been to it, and most planeswalkers worth their salt are using it to get elsewhere.
Yeh see cutter, the Outlands is the melting pot of the planes, it is. Maybe not to the same degree as the city of Doors, but yeh walk around and you’ll see just as many types of planars as you’ll find in the Cage. The thing is, most people ‘cept the Guvners just up and ignore the Outlands, even though it’s the soddin hub o’ the outer planes!
Most think of it as a fine place to find a bit o rest afore throwing yerself back out into the umpteenth layer of neverwhere. And it is. The locals will ignore you, mostly anyway. Unless yeh find yerself in one of the towns headed for the lower planes, then the locals can be downright nasty, but well get to the dark of that later.

Well, the first three things you gotta know about the Outlands are this: First off, the whole place is pretty neutral, so if you’re tired of preachers and zealots, there are less of those here. I’m not saying that you won’t find any, cause that’s like saying you won’t find razorvine.
Second, all round the Outlands you got gate towns. Gate towns are towns that built themselves up around a portal to the outer planes. Each one will take yeh somewheres different. You’ll hear a lot about that later on.
Thirdly, you have the Spire. Yes the same spire that Sigils above. But don’t try to climb it. Al that will do is get you stuck. Remember, that spire just goes up. Forever. It’s infinitely tall. And using magic ain’t gunna work, once you get near the spire, magic just kinda fizzles. So trying to fly up the spire is just going to give you a nice long fall when you get too close. Even powers can’t touch when you’re too close to the thing.
But the gate towns, they’re a long ways away from the spire, so they still got magic.
Another thing about the spire, that’s where the Rilmani live. Yeh know how the Gith are always going on about ‘Balance in all things?’ Well, the Rilmani take that to extremes. They always work behind the scenes, manipulating everything, even more then the damned loth’s! There’s chant saying that Shemeska the Marauder herself is just some Rilmani puppet, but anyone that’s met her will tell you that’s a load of screed, pure and simple.

But back to those Gate Towns I was talking about. You see, there a gate town aimed for most of the outer planes. And each gate town is like a watered down version of the plane it borders.
For example, Xaos borders the ever-shifting chaos of Limbo. Now, Xaos may not have all its elements playing a game of tag, but its inhabitants and even the town itself are chaotic in nature. That’s ‘cause most of the locals in a Gate town are petitioners that were not quite strong enough in their beliefs to make it to the full-fledged plane.
Here’s the dark on the Gate towns and where they are aimed at.
Automata has a portal that leads to the incredibly lawful (and by all accounts, incredibly boring) Mechanus.
Fortitude possesses are portal to Arcadia, which isn’t a bad place to be. Excelsior is aimed for the lawful good plane of Mount Celestia. If you’re trying to avoid the zealots, give this place a wide berth.
Tradegate sends you to Bytopia (remember, the city above you is not falling toward you. If you forget this, it can lead to a very embarrassing moment when you walk through the portal.)
Ecstasy owns a nice portal to Elysium, the best place to go lick your wounds.
Faunel will have you going to the Beastlands, only real advice is to bring a druid. Sylvania sports a portal to Arborea, which is, coincidentally, a great place to find that druid you need for the Beastlands.
Glorium populated by petitioners of heroes, who weren’t quite heroic enough to make it to Ysgard. So close…
Then there’s Xaos. Expect Chaosmen. In abundance. And wearing hats.
A stop at Bedlam will send you packing to Pandemonium (BUY EARPLUGS), while a quick trip to Plauge-mort will give you a glimpse of the Abyss. And with luck, that’s all you’ll ever have to see of it.
Curst is a town of betrayal that has an arch leading to the red spheres of Carceri, which is called the prison plane for a reason, berks.
Hopeless will take you to the Gray waste of Hades, so don’t expect enthusiasm.
Torch will send you to the volcanic Gehenna, which is only really recommended for those that can stand the heat. Although an endure elements spell will help you greatly.
Ribcage borders the nine hells of Baator. People, prepare to be peeled.
Finally, we have Rigus, which leads to the never-ending battlefields of Acheron.

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"Krypter" wrote:
That's pretty good. A slightly humorous take on fantasy. Needs a bit more detail or shading, but a good shot nonetheless. Is this supposed to be on Ysgard or the Outlands?

Ysgard Smiling

I never knew how to shade :oops:

And i never cared much for details. This is just a place to visit for session or two. I can make milions of these Smiling

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Frid Yes that is close to what I'm planning on doing, but I'm going to be going in much closer and at greater length. Thanks

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Oh, no doubt. Id be kinda worried about the project if you wernt planning to. I just wanted to make sure that we were all talking about the same thing now.

You would most definatly want to do it gate town by gate town, and with detailed information for each.

BTW: is there a list of the gate town portals and their keys? not all of them, just the ones that they are famous for. Like the Carceri arch in Curst.

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"Fidrikon" wrote:
Oh, no doubt. Id be kinda worried about the project if you wernt planning to. I just wanted to make sure that we were all talking about the same thing now.

You would most definatly want to do it gate town by gate town, and with detailed information for each.

BTW: is there a list of the gate town portals and their keys? not all of them, just the ones that they are famous for. Like the Carceri arch in Curst.

Not that I've found. Which is one more reason to write this.

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"Fidrikon" wrote:
BTW: is there a list of the gate town portals and their keys? not all of them, just the ones that they are famous for. Like the Carceri arch in Curst.

http://geocities.com/athens/7117/zportals/gatetowns.html

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Portalseeker (my site) has a whole lot of portals listed as well. The gate-town ones are from Zach's site.

www.portalseeker.com

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