sorry, but I won't be able to post for a few days, RL just plopped a bunch of stuff in my lap.
BoG'r OOC.
Sorry to hear that, good luck!
How much does the party know about that place (Urmlaspyr in particular, Sembia in general)? I think the neg-energy rift is in Sembia, but do the PCs know anything else about the region?
BoGr Guide to Missile Combat:
1) Equip a bow or crossbow.
2) Roll a natural 1 on d20.
3) ?????
4) Profit!
Yea, I wanted that to be a longer and more damatic post ... oh well ...
Anyway, the point is made. Even though you don't like Pale, and don't want to serve under him, he DOES have a purpose and now you have to think really hard what to do.
As for info on Sembia, I've revealed quite a bit so far, I'll recap. Know, however, that none of the gith who know about Sembia have been there recently...
The Sembian Campaign happened as such:
A huge force of about 12,000 githyanki invaded from the sea in their astral ships, attacking the graith port of Urmlaspyr. At the same time, a cabal of necromancers (presumably including Master Pale) opened a rift in the city of Daerlun to the Neg-Energy Plane. This allowed a force of undead led by Death Knight known as 'Black Blade' and 'The Claws of Death', a red dragon dracolich to enter. It also wiped out a good portion of the citizenry. These, allong with the casualties from Urmlaspyr (which also included much of the city) were reanimated and sent to war.
Southern Sembia was targeted to isolate Cormyr,a strong neighbor known for its war-wizards and elite troops. A good porion of the initial invasion force continued north to capture the passes of the Thunder Peaks and Tilver's gap on Cormyr's eastern and northern borders. The empty ships then continued north tho begin ferrying conquered graith from the Moonsea down to Sembia.
The Githyanki deliberately put themselves and their graith allies in a tight situation, between the forces of Cormyr and the northern cities of Sembia. They did this to make their graith recruits more motivated.
Operating from Daerlun and Urmlaspyr, the githyanki still enjoyed superior mobility and tactics which allowed them to quickly conquer the towns and villages of southern Sembia, but stopped at the river Arken and the walls of the graith cities. In addition, they had already taken The Vast and Procampur, and ruled the sea-lanes from their base at Lone Rock in the Dragon Reach (but not, as yet, the Pirate Isles). Therefore, they successfully kept Cormyr's forces within their own borders, blockaded Sembia from outside aid, and amassed a force to threaten the cities of northern Sembia, including the capital.
This was the first operation in which a large amout of the Zhentilar, troops from the city of Zhentil Keep (Vlaakith's first target on this world) were used.
The initial invasion took place in autumn, and after a winter of build-up, a massive force of graith, led by elite githyanki including undead and necromancers, pushed north, and attacked the as-yet-untaken city of Saerloon (in the south, east of Urmlaspyr). The Sembians gathered all the arms and magic they could muster to meet the attack.
Then the duthka'gith hit the vault ...
[I'm going to stop there, since we are now into out-of-character knowledge. Suffice to say, Ya'shenn and Ii probably overhear something about this within a couple of hours of any pirate, githyanki or graith, sighting Ar'dru or any of the dthka'gith or Cultists. Until then, I'll leave you as players wondering, and see how well you keep the teaser out of your In-character play. The duthka'gith don't talk about it, so not even Kirath knows much about this, but often wondered why he always had more than enough gold to pay drow guides and bounty-hunters ... ]
The rest of the Sembian campaign is anti-climatic. The massive push north was a feint (of sorts), and after meeting the Sembian army in the field, they swung bask south-east and attacked Selgaunt and Saerloon. Nether of these was ever fully conquered, though. Active and effective resistance tied up too many troops, and after Vlaakith's fall they pulled back to Urmlaspyr and Daerloon. The forces of Sembia were crushed, and though they've retaken most of their cities, the countryside is depopulated, especially in the south.
There was an invasion of Cormyr. After choking the kingdom, conquering one neighbor after another, the githyanki finally invaded. Feints were made in the west and north, but the attack came from Sembia. The battle was fierce, and there were losses and victories on both sides, but the githyanki and their allied companies pushed into eastern Cormyr as far as the Wyvernwater.
Then Vlaakith fell, and the githyanki pulled back. The Cormyrians have taken back their territory, but have not yet managed to push beyond their own borders.
Urmlaspyr and Daerlun remain in githyanki hands, sort of. Urmlaspyr is a largely empty city of pirates, rebels, gangs, and githyanki. Gith are said to walk in squads here, meaning a lone githyanki is not safe. The city serves as a port for the "Empire" in southern Sembia, but is a ghost town compared to the graith city of Westgate, a day's sail south across the sea (and also unsafe, but in a more general "watch your back around pirates" sort of way). Daerlun is ruled by the Claws of Death, who reigns over this small empire. As a red dragon dracolich and long-time friend and ally of the Lich Queen, Claws of Death is considered the leader of the Ascendancy in the northern lands [starts to come together now ... ] but also a member of the Cult of Tiamat, and presumably a supporter of the Singer of Fire. It is unknown what happened to the Black Blade he/she/it may still serve The Claws of Death in Daerlun, or may have retreated to the Astral or Neg-E.
All of this can be / could have already been gotten from Kirath's troops.
What is the point exactly? That Pale has a purpose, or that the party will end up as zombies if they don't follow him?
BoGr Guide to Missile Combat:
1) Equip a bow or crossbow.
2) Roll a natural 1 on d20.
3) ?????
4) Profit!
I think our DM knows the word: RAILroading?
*sigh*
Having a plot = railroading?
The whole "let's go ahead to Starmantle and warn everybody" was a completely unseen development that the DM sort of scrambled to accommodate. To the degree that I absolutely HATE how my last game-post ended up and wish I could take the damn thing back.
Sorry
Anyway, to answer Zimmy; Yes, both. I do want you guys to think hard about what your characters want to do. I know
I cast Pale as an antagonist, but now that you know more of his purpose, the PCs should realize that as megalomaniacal as he is, he is (at least in his own mind ... heh, pun) working for the greater good of the githyanki people not just his own personal and political power (though that's a part of it too).
But yes, Pale is still likely to find undead minions more agreeable than living troops, and threatening folks with zombification is a tried and true method for getting them to do his bidding. Necromancers are not known for their people skills, and they don't usually pick them up as they advance their career.
So, of course how you react to the information & situation is of course up to you.
Anyway, the PCs' actions have caused me to modify certain upcoming encounters/events to go with the change in pace.
So, if you feel railroaded, I'm sorry. It was somewhat necessary for this part of the story for you to be, but I AM letting you have a good deal of freedom within the overall plotline of being "recruited" by Pale.
EDIT
I think I need to change the description of what Pale is doing with the animals.
Edited the scene where Kirath sees what Pale is up to. Scrapped the 'golum' idea, came up with a better one.
Also note: Pale expects to stay for 3 days before re-asserting his claim at command (which will also give him time to finish his project.) This gives you some time to explore Starmantle, interact with the town/fleets, and formulate a plan.
I''ll give you all a chance to react before I post the Captains' immediate reaction.
If that were really Ya'shenn's mindset, she would never have joined the Sha'sal Khou in the first place. There are, after all, plenty of reasons to not oppose the Revered Queen. The illithid would be stronger if the throne were empty... and the githzerai would probably be pretty happy about it too. (Of course, in Ya'shenn's mind, the greater good for the githyanki race is to be rid of the Revered Queen, her would-be replacements, and her Ascendancy supporters.)
I can't have Ya'shenn knowingly take actions that increase the power and influence of the Ascendancy like this and still remain true to the character. If that means I need to kill off my character, I'll do that.
The other party members aren't Reconciliation, as far as I know, so the situation with regard to Pale may be easier for them to deal with.
BoGr Guide to Missile Combat:
1) Equip a bow or crossbow.
2) Roll a natural 1 on d20.
3) ?????
4) Profit!
If that were really Ya'shenn's mindset, she would never have joined the Sha'sal Khou in the first place. There are, after all, plenty of reasons to not oppose the Revered Queen. The illithid would be stronger if the throne were empty... and the githzerai would probably be pretty happy about it too. (Of course, in Ya'shenn's mind, the greater good for the githyanki race is to be rid of the Revered Queen, her would-be replacements, and her Ascendancy supporters.)
I can't have Ya'shenn knowingly take actions that increase the power and influence of the Ascendancy like this and still remain true to the character. If that means I need to kill off my character, I'll do that.
The other party members aren't Reconciliation, as far as I know, so the situation with regard to Pale may be easier for them to deal with.
You needn't take so drastic of a step, but I understand now some of Ya'shenn's motivations. If she or Ii have anything immediate to say to the Captains, then do so, otherwise I will consider and post their reactions.
Sorry I got upset at the accusation of railroading. Especially since it is a fair criticism. Anyway, I'm trying to give you more leeway in the present scene, and a chance to explore Starmantle. (BTW, anyone know anything more about the FR canon on the place? All I've got on Starmantle is a name on a map)
As for the revolt against Pale, I planned to make it more morally complicated (failed) but there is a planned event coming up ...
Starmantle:
"For centuries, Starmantle and Westgate have competed for trade moving across the Sea of Fallen Stars. Despite the cities' efforts to crush each other, neither has fallen. In fact, the competition has helped them both, since their price wars have increased the volume of trade moving through the Dragon Coast. Starmantle is somewhat less corrupt than Westgate, but it is deeply aligned with the pirates of the Isles."
Thats from the Forgotten Realms handbook
I am not reconciliation, but the way Pale is asserting himself is beyond acceptable to my Knight.
Nice post there Zimmy
Understood, and I'm sure the sentiment is shared by everybody. Anyway, now you know his real destination.
You want me to write the info on Urmlaspyr also?
Sure, I have info on Urmlaspyr from a 2e FR Adventures, but more Info is cool too ...
I may be a little slow to post over the next several days.
First, it will be Christmas soon.
Second, a blizzard is predicted here, so a power outage is possible.
Will continue to post if I'm not gift-wrapping and still have power, though.
BoGr Guide to Missile Combat:
1) Equip a bow or crossbow.
2) Roll a natural 1 on d20.
3) ?????
4) Profit!
Well, we had some decent snowfall down here in the North of England....
I'll write that city when i get up tomorrow, now just got back from work, and am fubar
Starmantle:
small city, 6,080 pop.
Urmlaspyr:
Metropolis, 26,239 pop.
"As Dearlun's link to the sea, Urmlaspyr maintains a steady buzz of merchant shipping. Its citizens are nearly as industrious as the people of Saerloon, without the steady diet of murderous
intrigue, and nearly as friendly as the people of Daerlun, without the somewhat convoluted allegiances that plague that city's relations with its neighbours and relatives of the north.
Urnlaspyr makes a point of open-mindedness, particularly where the divine powers are concerned. Hence the city is home to temples or shrines to deities such as Bane, Talos, and Umberle- whose clerics would gladly raze the temples of Gond, Tymora, and Waukeen."
Thanks.
So....
Starmantle:
Small City ~4000 graith, 65 githyanki (perminant)
(the fleets) ~1200 graith, ~300 githyanki
Kirath's forces:
40 githyanki, 8 duthka'gith
Blades of Git'riban:
9 githyanki
Pale's Forces
128 githyanki, ~500 swordwraiths, ~30 various graith undead, lots of potential undead and weird "projects"
I figure Starmantle is underpopulated. Actually re-populated from being largely de-populated during the Incursion.
As for Urmlaspyr, from the descriptions you get from Kirath's troops who served in Sembia, it went from ~26,000 to ~13,000 literally overnight. What it is now is uncertain. Some of the pirates may have been there recently though ...
Are you sure you mean 65 Gith? not 650?
I was already writing:
this is really getting on my nerves, I don't mind a good game, but these last posts have just been an emphasis on the fact that we have a choice of not having a choice at all. (as far as it seems now)
If it comes to a fight, and I see this coming, as I am in no mood whatsoever to accommodate this Necromancer npc.
So....
Starmantle:
Small City ~4000 graith, 65 githyanki (perminant)
(the fleets) ~1200 graith, ~300 githyanki
Kirath's forces:
40 githyanki, 8 duthka'gith
Blades of Git'riban:
9 githyanki
Pale's Forces
128 githyanki, ~500 swordwraiths, ~30 various graith undead, lots of potential undead and weird "projects"
Starmantle ~4000 = pop, not soldiers I presume?, so no use for any confrontation...?
The fleets ~1200 + 300 I presume all of fighting capacity?
*Sigh*
Bad DMing I guess. I'm trying to introduce the politics of the post-incursion githyanki, in a world that everybody can find a map to. The 'railroading' was a way to introduce a githyanki bloc that all the PCs oppose, but which has a major role in the politics here.
I'm sorry you felt railroaded. The NPC press-ganged you, so therefore so did the DM. I'm trying to set that right ( ... and failing? )
You now have an 'out' without Pale totally backing down from you or fighting you. Three days. A lot can happen in three days, and so, a lot WILL happen.
I mean, yes, I'd like to still get you to Urlamspyr, but at this point will be soon giving you an 'out' from that as well. There is a planned event, it would have been in U-spyr, but the PC revolt upped the time-table in the story ....
Bad DMing I guess. I'm trying to introduce the politics of the post-incursion githyanki, in a world that everybody can find a map to. The 'railroading' was a way to introduce a githyanki bloc that all the PCs oppose, but which has a major role in the politics here.
I'm sorry you felt railroaded. The NPC press-ganged you, so therefore so did the DM. I'm trying to set that right ( ... and failing? )
The only thing is see slowly rising up is a major war between us and the necromancer, We can be better off with the NPC pirates on our side, then its 1500 and some + party vs 500 swordwraiths and some + necro and ghost in an all out battle royal... Is that your intention?, coz if it isn't you are sure enough steering us that way.
(That's all from my own personal perspective of course)
Not really my intention, no. I just wanted to make 'the guy you love to hate'
Funny thing is, I figure Ib'm as Master (mistress) of the Port, is actually living almost like an outcast without ever having been outcast (hence why she's a bit disgruntled). She deals with graith affairs all day. Yes she's the militant governor of a conquered territory, but she's essentially just the Mayor of Starmantle at this point, an administrator.
As for Ib'm's 64, they act sort of like samurai among lower class. They are the masters and conquerors. They may cut down anyone on a whim. Everyone gets out of their way, and gives them whatever they want. Still, it is largely a pirate city, and they are constantly 'sharpening their blades' (getting into fights)
Bad DMing I guess. I'm trying to introduce the politics of the post-incursion githyanki, in a world that everybody can find a map to. The 'railroading' was a way to introduce a githyanki bloc that all the PCs oppose, but which has a major role in the politics here...
Right:
Introducing had been better along the lines of us (the party) seeing Pale go about his business, but him not knowing we were there... then we get informed about him and his cronies, and what's going on on this world, and we can decide as players ourselves how and when to get involved, if at all...
You now have an 'out' without Pale totally backing down from you or fighting you. Three days. A lot can happen in three days, and so, a lot WILL happen.
I mean, yes, I'd like to still get you to Urlamspyr, but at this point will be soon giving you an 'out' from that as well. There is a planned event, it would have been in U-spyr, but the PC revolt upped the time-table in the story ....
lol, its Urmlaspyr, a nice name to break y'r tongue over
How can possibly being captured by Pale's troops be an "OUT"?, 3 days to get more information about any and all situations, but it does not change much in our own predicament... I am interested to see what the other players think and have for ideas to get us out of this fine mess....
As a DM i think you have to be ready for any spastic reactions any pc's will have to your "stories", as not all people think alike, and for a dm, "on the spot improvisation" is the best attribute to have imo for any game.
Think of this: What if the party does not want to go to Urmlaspyr at all? hasn't that thought occurred at all to you?
(this is just a very good example question for purpose of the "discussion")
Think of this: What if the party does not want to go to Urmlaspyr at all? hasn't that thought occurred at all to you?
Yes.
In fact
Simultaneous posting again ...
So ... I didn't want to give it away, man, but the plan was to get you all hating Pale then have you and he run into one of his rivals, who would have the info on several possible ways back to Sigil, possible other missions on this world, etc
At that point Pale would be left as a political opponent. An antagonist, hopefully an interesting and long-term one.
But anyway, as far as the criticisms go, I'll take it all under advisement, and try to do better in the future. This isn't as easy as it looks.
There was no need to answer that last bit, it was just a question for you to think about.
Lets leave it for now, I am tired, having worked the night, and the rest needs to read this all as well...
Have a good night Azure (or day)..
off to do sleepies..
Ah the question is who do we hate more the psion in ghost form or the wanna-be lich. What Kirath wants to know (not mentioning myself!) is what the agenda of Mist-of-Mind is.
As far as railroading I do not agree. Azure has set up a major story arc and we threw him a major currveball so now he is adjusting on the fly (very admirably I must say). He is just setting the stage for one(make that 2) of the big bads of the campaign.
Recently in the drow campaign I am dming in my tabletop game the players totally threw me for a loop .They decided to ally with one of the factions they have been fighting for over 2 years (in real time that is). I was like what the hell! I have been scrambling for weeks to repair the damage to my vaunted story the the Pc's totally unexpectedly and unintentionally they caused. It's fun though doing the repairs it gets my creative juices flowing. But woe to my precious well crafted plots!
So cut Azure a break and let him do what he does best and tella grand story in which we play a part I am sure he won't disappoint just give him a chance to recover.
Azure, just to clarify -- do the conscripted troops, including the party from Git'riban, have freedom of movement at this point, provided that they remain in Starmantle?
It was inevitable that Ya'shenn would betray Pale at some point, provided that a reasonable opportunity presented itself. Ya'shenn herself was offended at the thought of being used to conscript more of her own siblings, and it seems that Ii and Kirath were as well.
While I don't enjoy upsetting the DM's plans, I have been enjoying the recent RP.
BoGr Guide to Missile Combat:
1) Equip a bow or crossbow.
2) Roll a natural 1 on d20.
3) ?????
4) Profit!
Azure, just to clarify -- do the conscripted troops, including the party from Git'riban, have freedom of movement at this point, provided that they remain in Starmantle?
Yes.
..........
It sounds like the PCs are... relatively... free of Pale for the moment. Ya'shenn is happy about that, at least.
As a player, I don't mind that the PCs were conscripted. It just got to a point where several of the PCs (but especially Ya'shenn) had had enough of him at the same time.
I agree with Bladedancer's statement here. I think we just surprised the DM (and his well designed storyline).
BoGr Guide to Missile Combat:
1) Equip a bow or crossbow.
2) Roll a natural 1 on d20.
3) ?????
4) Profit!
Now, if you don't see the 3-day thing as a way for the DM to back off, in response to party actions, without totally ruining the character of a major NPC, let me tell you outright. You won. The DM backed off. I want to keep Pale/Mist a credible threat and credible overall character, but you are now off the railroad.
One stop sooner than expected, and now I get to build a town I DON'T have a map for, a background for, an Incursion history already drawn out, etc. Not that I'm actually complaining, because this allows me to use the NPCs I would have used in Urmlaspyr, forces me to make up a bunch more on the fly (and I like what I came up with), and I can now use one Incursion character that I actually wouldn't have otherwise, one that may prove very interesting.
But think about it. Seriously, if someone in a movie says "We have 3 days to prepare" it means you're going to see a montage, maybe a couple of little character-building scenes, and when the horde/dragon/storm/etc comes it's a totally different game and the heroes triumph.
It wasn't winning that I was after Azure, I was also never implying you weren't a good DM.
...
And Thank You.
lol, its Urmlaspyr, a nice name to break y'r tongue over
Thanks for pointing out the ONE TIME i did it wrong
your welcome, I'm not all critics and no love, don't worry about that.
Will see how the 3 day gap will help us.. I am sceptical just the same (if you don't mind).
That's OK. In fact, that's good. Your character can use that. Realize, though that Pale still sees Ii as a knight. You've already used that to your advantage, and can continue to do so if you can keep a false face to Pale.
You guys now have run of the town for the day, though Kirath's doing stuff with his troops at dusk. The githyanki pirates already decided to stay, so they'll use the 3 days to first decide their course of action, then prepare.
I can do an IC post to reflect all this, but not tonight. In fact if someone else feels ambitious, I'll give you some parameters, otherwise I'll post tomorrow (probably)
Question, for things to buy, this pirate port, what's the maximum Item value available?
as i have that axe +3 icy burst, and want to see if i can trade it in for 2 or 3 items of equal value...
You can go to the town. It is a rough pirate port. Ib'm's githyanki only sort-of rule the place in that most of the graith are afraid of them. They stay in the customs house, a stout fort-like building down at the docks. There is a small castle at the top of the hill too, but it is empty most of the time.
A few githyanki reside in the islet tower. A little asking around will reveal that they are all varsh-caste.
Raa-Shiis and Zjaa offer for Ii and Ya'shenn to stay aboard the Swallow if they wish. They will notice, if they start looking around, that there are many female graith sailors aboard, while females are almost unheard of among other graith crews. Githyanki, of course, are about 50/50 m/f wherever they are.
You can visit any other of the fleets. I pretty much already described the character of each fleet, but will do so again. Silver's fleet has specialist githyanki 'marines'. They are well trained, well equipped, and most sling some spells. D'aynn's fleet has the most, and the best, guns. Styrnn commands a rag-tag bunch ruffians. Styrnn and D'aynn's fleets are at least partially in port, while the Silver Fleet is now out in the bay, and using boats and skiffs to get back and forth.
thats useful info, but does not yet answer my particular question
simultaneous posting again
I guess .... 25,000 gp limit looks about right
we posted nearly simultaneous yesterday, when i had done my post, your post was below mine, that's why you might not have seen it...
Edit:
Thanks for that little post, i will reply tomorrow during the day, U.K. time..., now sleepy time for me