Hello!
I know that the dominant theory behind the arrival of the yugoloths is that they were created by the baernaloths. However, I'm curious as to how they actually created the yugoloths. Did they create them from souls or ex nihilo? Did they modify a plane to generate yugoloths spontaneously? Was it the result of some arcane experimentation or obscene ritual?
Thanks in advance!
Birth of the Yugoloths
Thu, 2008-01-17 16:22
#1
Birth of the Yugoloths
Thu, 2008-01-17 20:42
#3
Birth of the Yugoloths
If there weren't any mortals, I suppose that the Gray Waste wasn't as conceptually crystallized as it is now...would it be more of an abstract plane of evil existence? In either case, I find it particularly helpful to know that the yugoloths were the culmination of a line of experimentation, which is the idea towards which I was leaning. Could you tell me what source hints at this experimentation, or even details it to any extent?
Thanks so much and have a wonderful day!
Thu, 2008-01-17 22:43
#4
Birth of the Yugoloths
Check out "planes of conflict" and "Hellbound - The blood-war" as key resources or search for posts by Shemmy on planewalker. His(/her) work about as good as cannon and is more in depth. Shemmy's planescape storyhour on EN world is also a pretty good source of Loth material.
I think I recall the shells of lesser Yugoloths being constructed at the base of Kith-Oin(sp?) and then filled with the essence of the plane so all loths are kinda golems/constructs which fits well in their role as despoilers of the natural order and the opposites of Guardinals but I'm not sure if this is cannon.
Fri, 2008-01-18 08:11
#5
Birth of the Yugoloths
Azriael wrote:
I think I recall the shells of lesser Yugoloths being constructed at the base of Kith-Oin(sp?) and then filled with the essence of the plane so all loths are kinda golems/constructs which fits well in their role as despoilers of the natural order and the opposites of Guardinals but I'm not sure if this is cannon.
You are probbably reffering to "guardian yugoloths" (2ed monsters, they look like horned and winged bears or bears with toad's heads), they are essencialy constructs created by yugoloths to fill one purpose and one purpose only: to anwser the summoning spells of mortal mages.
you see no fiend likes to be summoned in the middle of something important to do bidding of some sodding prime mage. So yugoloths have created "guardian yugoloths" to fullfill that purpose. Basicaly in 2ed you cannot summon other yugoloths except this critters. I dont know are conditions these days.
@ Anwald: your questions is good one but true anwser is truely open for speculation, becaouse there are several theories and legends how this came to pass:
1. Baernaloths came and purge law and chaos from larvae they find in gary waste to get pure evil that will serve as building blocks for new race. They dumped law and chaos finds way to larvae of Baator and Abyss and so first Baatezu and Tanar'ri are born too.
2. Selection and breeding of existing creatures: this is another idea that is probably little closer to truth: ancient baernaloths and ultroloths that came to gray waste have seen it is home of hordlings and they started breeding and experimenting on creatures to get traits they wanted and remove those they did not. This is sugested in Mezzoloths entry, in wich says that creature is probably "adopted" to yugoloth race.
Fri, 2008-01-18 16:50
#6
Birth of the Yugoloths
Thanks, everyone!
I guess my original hypothesis of Baern experimentation is sound. That entry describing the Mezzoloths as having been "adopted," however, has stimulated some intrigue and some creative juices as well.
What if the Baernoloths adopted some other creature and/or experimented on them in some way? What if this experimentation were more subtle? What if the result was...humans!?
Fri, 2008-01-18 17:44
#7
Birth of the Yugoloths
You are probbably reffering to "guardian yugoloths"
Nope, looked it up and I found it on Rip's site - http://geocities.com/ripvanwormer/lessonsoftheloths.html not canon but good food for thought.
Fri, 2008-01-18 18:45
#8
Birth of the Yugoloths
I guess the way they are made today. With pure evil. Apomps used evil and dirt some there was a chaotic element to it(dunno how dirt counts as a chaotic element.) then he was booted out of the clubhouse.
Fri, 2008-01-18 21:15
#9
Birth of the Yugoloths
Khin-Oin is said to have been the original birthplace of the yugoloth race, the place where the first 'loths were made by the baernaloths long ago. The tower itself wouldn't have existed at the time, but the breeding pits beneath it probably did.
I agree that the Gray Waste was probably a more abstract plane of evil in those days. The River Styx didn't yet exist, for example.
Mezzoloths are currently created beneath Khin-Oin or the Tower Arcane, or they can arise from sexual reproduction.
The PSMC (which took most of its text from the Outer Planes Monstrous Compendium Appendix) had some other rumors and things, for example it suggested piscoloths were created from the souls of evil generals and yagnaloths were part giant. This was all contradicted by Faces of Evil.
Fri, 2008-01-18 22:02
#10
Birth of the Yugoloths
Thanks again, everyone.
But rip, about the breeding pits, that begs the question of how the breeding pits came to be, especially if I'm imagining the incumbent state of the Gray Wastes correctly. In fact, I had been playing with the idea of abstract planes and abstract outsiders for quite some time (you may remember an earlier though shorter-lived thread of mine). Did the baernoloths form the breeding pits as a combination of evil and their power of will? Also, on a related note, if the state of the plane was abstract at the time, were the yugoloth creations and even the baernoloths themselves more abstract in form at the time?
Thanks and have a nice weekend!
Sat, 2008-01-19 10:57
#11
Birth of the Yugoloths
Did the baernoloths form the breeding pits as a combination of evil and their power of will? Also, on a related note, if the state of the plane was abstract at the time, were the yugoloth creations and even the baernoloths themselves more abstract in form at the time?
I would like to think so (on both points).
Essentially ex nihilo, there weren't mortals around at the time to create them from, and 'loths still don't arise from mortal souls even now. It is possible, perhaps likely, that the process of creation involved the stuff of the Grey Wastes. The Wastes spontaineously generates Mezoloths, and Gehena was modified by the 'loths at a much later date to do the same. It is believed that the creation of the Loths was the end result of a long series of experiments.