Beyond Planescape.... Mix with Sliders, X-Files, stir well..

Sword_of_Geddon's picture

In 3rd Edition, many odd decisions have been chosen, for example, Toril now has the "Great Tree" Cosmology, and various other Campaign Settings, like Eberron, also have their own cosmologies. Many(And I was once one of em..) believe the Multiverse is gone. The various Campaign settings are no longer linked. But hold on for a second...

This can all be reconcilied very easyly. The 3rd edition Toril is NOT the same Toril of 2nd edition, because that Toril was part of the 2nd Edition Multiverse. The same is true of 2nd Edition Krynn.

Awile back there was a science fiction series called Sliders. In this series, the four cast members traveled to alternate Earths, which had a different history, and sometimes different laws of physics. Sometimes these worlds were VERY similiar to our own earth, with just a few minor differences that it would be hard to recognize them at first. For example, in one episode, they thought they had finally arrived home, but realeased it wasn't home when they saw the Goldengate Bridge was Blue.....

In some worlds, they even ran into duplacates of themselves.

This could be applyed to Planescape as well. The Multiverse we know and love from 2nd edition is only one Macroplane if you will. There exist an INFINITE amount of other Macroplanes, beyond the Far Realm, which separates each Existance.

In the Planescape Multiverse we are familiar with, BELIEF is the one defining factor. Other Macroplanes could have their own, different defining factor, such as LOGIC. For example, the old Alternity game's Stardrive setting could be in such an alternate Macroplane.

3rd Edition didn't get rid of the Multverse, it just made it a HELL of a lot bigger....

In fact, this would explain alot of 2nd edition Planescape adnormalities, such as the Keepers and the Chasium. According to the 2nd and 3rd Planescape Monstrious Compendium, The first supposibly came from another Multiverse, and nobody knows where the Chosium comes from, although one man claims it came from a unknown plane which connected to somewhere else

This restores the sense of mystery that was missing in Planescape after all the Planes were reveiled. This is what one of the authors of the "Beyond Countless Doorways" book was talking about.

An interesting hook would be that most of the alternate Multiverses/Cosmologies have a Sigil counterpart, and of coarse, a Lady of Pain....hehe

Basically, the Planes just got a whole lot bigger....hehe

No longer is it "Oh Toril, that backwater Prime world..." now its "Which Toril?(looks over shoulder in fear).

You also can introduce an element of the paranormal into Planescape. Perhaps beings never before seen have begun appearing here and there on the Planes, and some high-ups accross reality have begun to disappear, including high up Celestials and Fiends(even Loths). Sometime later, then return, with no memory of where they've been. Some have vague recollections however, and they remember a reality they can't even begin to describe, a reality that makes the Far Realm look like a pastorial mundane farming village on the Prime by comparison.

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Beyond Planescape.... Mix with Sliders, X-Files, stir well..

The key to all the doors...

An intresting concept, it alows for a diversity unheard of even in planescape. This allows DMs a back door to converting their ideas to planescape. Doesn't fit the multiverse? Screw it, its a new macroplane.
Oh, and by the way... Go sliders, woot.
Unfortunetly, this idea could lead to a chaos unheard of, even unto the deepest depths of the Abyss or pandemonium. Creatures whose very existance is a corruption of the planes could conceivably enter the multiverse.
But what would happen if a creature from another reality entered Limbo, and choas shaped it into a growing duplicate of its own reality. Think about it, it would became enough like the other reality that it slides over, its portals to the multiverse still intact... WHAM! The Multiverse is flooded witt creatures that even the Lady of Pain would have cause to fear.
While I think it a cool and creative concept, with it in place, all the rules dissapear.

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But that could make excellent opertunities for adventures...for example, perhaps, for example, the Primals of the Inner Planes, whose motivations are entirely unknown(Hense this sect is not suitable in 2nd edition for Players to belong to), are in reality a Organization responsible for protecting the Multiverse from external threats.

This could also be an explanation for the Spire's magic draining effects, as things that you can descibe as "creatures that even the Lady of Pain would have cause to fear" couldn't manufest in this multiverse with the exception of the distant reaches of the Hinterlands(like beyond the 20th ring for example)

Who knows...maybe the Lady of Pain is an External herself?

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Re: Beyond Planescape.... Mix with Sliders, X-Files, stir we

"Sword_of_Geddon" wrote:
Awile back there was a science fiction series called Sliders. In this series, the four cast members traveled to alternate Earths, which had a different history, and sometimes different laws of physics. Sometimes these worlds were VERY similiar to our own earth, with just a few minor differences that it would be hard to recognize them at first.
The laws of physics are inherent within our genetic make-up.

There has been some speculation by theorists that the ability to travel to alternate realities would be strictly prohibited to realities that have EXACTLY the same structure to the laws as our own reality does. It is their belief that quite simply, the particles and such that comprise our bodies would not have the ability to function appropriately in realities where the laws of physics were even slightly altered.

This argument can be interpreted from the classic belief that all of our universe is governed by six numbers which measure the most important aspects of reality. Sir Martin Rees, the Astronomer Royal has written extensively on the subject, even suggesting that a .0000001 deviation in any of these measurements could adversely affect both life in the universe and the stucture of the universe itself.

So you see, even if such alternate realities do exist, given the ackwardness of our understanding of the Uncertainty Principle, it would be almost impossible for travellers from our reality to successfully access them, without significant biological and genetic modifications that would take into act only the slightest of deviations in these measures. Deviations that differ greatly from the standard measurements in our reality would likely be too hazardous for our travellers to visit.

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As I see it, every plane is infinitely huge, so if you want to take your players to a plane from eg. eberron, just find the appropriate planescape plane and put deep in there, but far enough that the portals between the settings are almost nonexistant. Then say that treveling between different planes of one setting is easier then traveling between settings on the same plane

In short, one man's limbo is another man's kythri Smiling

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I guess that acutaly it all depends on the DMs view to but you are right there is a large amount of possible danger that could erupt if there was a foolish enough idea kinda scary really :!:

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Beyond Countless Doorways is a fantastic product. If you have the means, I strongly recommend you pick up a copy. [/Beuler]

Basically, it makes an entirely new way to explore planes. There are no planes of alignments, and no planes of elements, and no material planes, but rather shifting planes (plenty of which are not infinite in size) that are thematically encompassing, but not part of some grand scheme. So, instead of "The Abyss," which is a plane of pure evil and chaos, and filled with things that fit those parameters, you might have something more like a plane of elves who have divided a continent into four kingdoms, each embodying a season, and the whole thing is driven by some much more mysterious goings-on under the ground. Or aranea on the run through a collossal forest world from an immense invasion force of formians. Or a world where the natives try to fight off the effects of a huge blanketing cloud of chaos matter and the warped creatures that emerge from it. Or a formerly living world, murdered by battling fiends, that is now inhabited by tribes of tieflings trying to rekindle its spirit.

The planes are more limited in scope, I suppose, and so each one is more like a realm in the Great Wheel. It'd be tough to run an intriguing campaign on a single plane for too long, but fortunately there is an infinite number of planes, so when you get tired, you can move on. But there are such fantastic, imaginative, dynamic locations in BCD that you could never have in the Great Wheel cosmology without resorting to demiplanes (which always seemed like a cheap move to me).

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"Rhys" wrote:
Beyond Countless Doorways is a fantastic product. If you have the means, I strongly recommend you pick up a copy. [/Beuler]
That it is. It is also an magnificent well spring of new ideas and themes that can be adapted to nearly any type of planar campaign.

For myself, I'm still trying to determine the best way to introduce minor elements of bioleche into my regular PS campaign. At the moment, I'm looking to create a foundation for it's introduction through the plot... but it is difficult to completely ascertain the "best" possible place in the Outer Planes to bring it into the game.

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I had a few ideas about spinning off to spelljammer, but that would require learning a whole new set of rules (after picking one set amongst all of them). Also, we've just been harrassing a friend about running dnd pirates again (arr, my wererat rogue was cool) so we might get our much-needed dosage of sailing the carribean

I also had ideas of them visiting discworld, but there's not much need for ankh-morpork since there's already sigil in the planes and one of two most frequent player recently mentioned he never really cared for ramtops :shock:. How can anyone not like the ramtops?!? It's like arborea but without elves Sticking out tongue

Besides all that, I run planescape less then once a month so I don't have time to show even the usual planar encounters, and I don't think getting stuck in wildspace would help the situation Laughing out loud

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I just relized something what the planes are like planets constantly moving through a mega verse wahat if two could collied I wonder what would happen would cancal each other out or a stray univeres what would happen dear god :shock:

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"sphagetti man" wrote:
I just relized something what the planes are like planets constantly moving through a mega verse wahat if two could collied I wonder what would happen would cancal each other out or a stray univeres what would happen dear god :shock:
Have you looked into Eberron? See the influence planes have on each other when they come to exist either in a co-existent fashion, or in a co-terminus style.

Of course, you could just read through the relevant sections of the MotP 3e Sticking out tongue.

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"Evil Construct" wrote:
"sphagetti man" wrote:
I just relized something what the planes are like planets constantly moving through a mega verse wahat if two could collied I wonder what would happen would cancal each other out or a stray univeres what would happen dear god :shock:
Have you looked into Eberron? See the influence planes have on each other when they come to exist either in a co-existent fashion, or in a co-terminus style.

Of course, you could just read through the relevant sections of the MotP 3e Sticking out tongue.


As well, you may mind this interesting:- http://www.montecook.com/arch_stuff78.html

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yeah but what if you accidently met a parrelel self I wonder what would happen Puzzled:

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It's not always that clear cut.

At it's core... meeting yourself in another reality would be like meeting a complete stranger. Yes, he or she has your appearance, your voice, your body shape... but his/her history will be completely different. It would have shaped your parallel self in ways much different from your own experiences. Your parallel self will carry memories and experiences that might be completely alien to you. In fact, aside from those traits I'd mentioned above... meeting your parallel self in an alternate reality is just like meeting somebody you don't know for the first time, while walking down the street.

It's at this point, that one of the Dalai Lama's central tenets become crucial to this discussion... "Know and understand the history of the people around you".

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Re: Beyond Planescape.... Mix with Sliders, X-Files, stir we

"Evil Construct" wrote:
The laws of physics are inherent within our genetic make-up.

There has been some speculation by theorists that the ability to travel to alternate realities would be strictly prohibited to realities that have EXACTLY the same structure to the laws as our own reality does. It is their belief that quite simply, the particles and such that comprise our bodies would not have the ability to function appropriately in realities where the laws of physics were even slightly altered.

This argument can be interpreted from the classic belief that all of our universe is governed by six numbers which measure the most important aspects of reality. Sir Martin Rees, the Astronomer Royal has written extensively on the subject, even suggesting that a .0000001 deviation in any of these measurements could adversely affect both life in the universe and the stucture of the universe itself.

So you see, even if such alternate realities do exist, given the ackwardness of our understanding of the Uncertainty Principle, it would be almost impossible for travellers from our reality to successfully access them, without significant biological and genetic modifications that would take into act only the slightest of deviations in these measures. Deviations that differ greatly from the standard measurements in our reality would likely be too hazardous for our travellers to visit.

Did you ever think that they might be wrong. Considering that we haven't found alternate realities yet, those theories can neither be proven nor disproven. Besides, we're talking about a fantasy game here.

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"Narfi Ref" wrote:
"Evil Construct" wrote:
The laws of physics are inherent within our genetic make-up.

There has been some speculation by theorists that the ability to travel to alternate realities would be strictly prohibited to realities that have EXACTLY the same structure to the laws as our own reality does. It is their belief that quite simply, the particles and such that comprise our bodies would not have the ability to function appropriately in realities where the laws of physics were even slightly altered.

This argument can be interpreted from the classic belief that all of our universe is governed by six numbers which measure the most important aspects of reality. Sir Martin Rees, the Astronomer Royal has written extensively on the subject, even suggesting that a .0000001 deviation in any of these measurements could adversely affect both life in the universe and the stucture of the universe itself.

So you see, even if such alternate realities do exist, given the ackwardness of our understanding of the Uncertainty Principle, it would be almost impossible for travellers from our reality to successfully access them, without significant biological and genetic modifications that would take into act only the slightest of deviations in these measures. Deviations that differ greatly from the standard measurements in our reality would likely be too hazardous for our travellers to visit.

Did you ever think that they might be wrong. Considering that we haven't found alternate realities yet, those theories can neither be proven nor disproven. Besides, we're talking about a fantasy game here.


It's all possible, I suppose. It's PS after all.

Still, there have to be some constants... otherwise we likely wouldn't be here discussing this right now... Would we???

Eye-wink

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Re: Beyond Planescape.... Mix with Sliders, X-Files, stir we

"Narfi Ref" wrote:
"Evil Construct" wrote:
[There is a] classic belief that [there are] six numbers which measure the most important aspects of reality. Sir Martin Rees [suggests] that a .0000001 deviation in any of these measurements could adversely affect both life in the universe and the stucture of the universe itself.

Did you ever think that they might be wrong. Considering that we haven't found alternate realities yet, those theories can neither be proven nor disproven.

I know I'd be happier not doing the experiment, thank you very much.

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Perhaps, if we lived on the Discworld, then we could try a few experiments based on alternating the fundamental constants.

Of course, I'm thinking about the experiment the wizards and Ponder Stibbons conducted in The Science of Discworld for this... And it's late here on Valentine's Day anyway... I shouldn't even be HERE.

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But what six numbers does the Discworld use?

A'tuins: 1
Elephants: 4
Wizzards: 1
Gods: Ummm...
Cabbages: approx. Gods - 32
Trolls: Lots

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And Death.

He'd factor into it somewhere...

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This thread seems to have moved off topic a bit...*steer*

I strongly encourage you to write up a formal "thesis" for your idea. I believe the old Mimir.net site had some alternate/expanded theories for the design of the multiverse, and that's something I think we should see more of. I don't think we currently have a place to put it in the database, but when you're ready give me a hollar and I'll have something arranged.

Don't let good ideas be forgotten!

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