Alternate-History Technologies in Planescape?

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Zimrazim's picture
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Factol
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Alternate-History Technologies in Planescape?

TheSky's earlier thread has (*just* by mentioning steam Laughing out loud ) just put me into alternate-history mode: "What if a contemporary of Heron of Alexandria had taken a look at his steam-powered devices and decided to try applying the idea to a ship or a wagon?"

(Yes, I watch the History Channel.)

I can't really call it 'steampunk,' since that genre involves a ton of other technologies (printing press, guns, etc.) and usually a Victorian Era setting/cultural assumptions. I'm thinking something more ancient/medieval, but with the assumption that some of the marvels of that period saw more widespread use.

Wondering how much these ideas have seen use in Planescape -- or how 'Planescapey' they would feel to other PS fans. The two elements that would make a setting 'not Planescape' and definitively sci-fi in my mind are modern corporations and guns. Laughing out loud (What I'm thinking of doesn't really fit into the Urban Planescape mold -- i.e., no real industrialization, no factories, no nukes, not 20th/21st century in character.)

I'm thinking more along the lines of that 100% automated play in the ancient Greek period using only materials that were available in that era, programmable automata (using string/rope for instructions), etc. The technology of the modrons comes to mind right away, but I'm wondering if much else has been done with the idea in PS. There's a lot that was technologically *possible* before the Renaissance that simply wasn't widely adopted.

Educational links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_of_Alexandria
and for the modron in us all:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism

Notice the part in the latter article where it says 18th century clocks.

I suppose the summary of this thread is that while the average level of ancient and medieval technology was low by our standards, it was also uneven, and in some ways higher than most people realize. Machine guns may be not-Planescape, but steam-powered temple doors should definitely be within the realm of possibility.

Then there are the Byzantine flamethrowers...

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The Great Hippo's picture
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Alternate-History Technologies in Planescape?

I've always run my PS campaigns with certain elements of Steampunk in them.

Sigil definitely has roots in Victorian England, from its slang to the Hive (rookeries) to its culture. I find absolutely no problem with plopping Victorian-tech right into the middle of things.

To avoid absurdities with fire-arm use, I use flint-locks, single-shot pistols, and single-shot muskets (treating them as essentially identical to light crossbows, normal crossbows, and heavy crossbows respectively). I've got parts of the Hive crawling with pneumatic tubing; hot air balloons and gas-powered mini-dirigibles driven by dwarves, gnomes, and goblins are a little dangerous but not unheard of. And gyro-copters--why the hell not? And dwarven-made flamethrowers complete with fire-retardant platemail? Hells yes.

I've even got a goblin kid by the name of Woot who wants to create a sprawling system of pneumatic tubing woven throughout all of Sigil (and through the use of portals, throughout the entire Multiverse). Once complete, he'd turn it on, creating the Tubeverse--designed to allow effortless transportation of ideas throughout the Multiverse.

Kay
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Alternate-History Technologies in Planescape?

Ancient Greek and Roman technology was just plain awesome. Fact is, it surpassed medieval civilizations by far. They had running water, aqueducts, superior knowledge in many scientific areas and for some time even a form of democracy. If you want to use steam-based technology feel you might feel free to do so. For example, Archimedes of Syracuse designed a steam-based cannon that actually would have worked (unfortunately Roman soldiers killed him during the raid of the city).

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Alternate-History Technologies in Planescape?

I don't think this level of technology would hinder or harm Planescape's mood or atmosphere, and indeed may enhance it (as Hippo showed). I've found it quite hard to accept that after such a long time and after exposure to so many different races, planes and entities...that SOME sort of tech would not come around. Actually, I'd be interested to see how ballistics would function on different planes. I doubt a firearm is really all that much of an advantage, say, in Pandemonium with the winds and darkness and whatnot. Instead of the Great Road, perhaps it's the Great Railroad? Nah, not that far. However, I like the idea of flintlocks and the like, since gunpowder has had to have been discovered somewhere, sometime. The only reason I'd imagine they wouldn't immediately grow so far technologically as, say, ourselves, is the fact that there are so many diverse sources as to certainly muddle any concerted production or research that sees widespread use. Magic takes care of a lot of things technology could, as well. Who needs vacuums when you have trained vacuum quasielementals or cantrips?

Sorry, I think I digressed there.

astralsahu's picture
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Alternate-History Technologies in Planescape?

Oh, sure. Spelljamming space-pirates never could sell their firearms on the planes, because a flintlock is nice against a crowd of sailors flying past you upside-down at 50 feet, but it's cheaper and safer to deal with a barbazu across the pub with a crossbow. I could see firearm use being common among officers on Acheron, though. Same sort of situation.

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Alternate-History Technologies in Planescape?

I always naturrally assumed that Mechanus was packed with that sorta technology. After all the spell Mechanus canon seems to involve so sort of canon. It isn't Mechanus crossbow or Mechanus throwing dagger.

Kay
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Alternate-History Technologies in Planescape?

Actually, Ravenloft already has a good deal of more "advanced" technology and since most everything in Ravenloft comes from somewhere else, that technology must exist somewhere else on the planes. I imagine it would be a nice addition of tone to a campaign if this technology now finally spreads out from, say, the Prime or Mechanus to the other planes. People will try to find out how to make use of it (dripping holy water on bullets to screw some fiends) or reject it (what do I need this for when I have my magic missiles?), enhance it (gnome steam tank) or twist it (Baatezu steam tank) and they will most certainly trade with it.

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Alternate-History Technologies in Planescape?

The first occurence of steampunk in D&D that I became aware of was „Earthshaker!“ (which was written by David Zeb Cook in ’85(!)). On the cover you see a giant steam powered robot smashing a castle.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthshaker!_(module)[/url]
http://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/modpages/cm.html

I like the feeling of how technological decay in PS:Torment’s graphics (rusty bolts, useless wires, buildings like stranded UFOs) is contrasting to the Victorian setting in the Lady’s Ward and the high fantasy elements in general. This grotesque mixture is one of Planescape’s central benefits, to me.

Apropos, Modrons and Mimirs can be seen as rather steampunkish Androids, Computers, Databanks and such, can’t they?

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Alternate-History Technologies in Planescape?

'Rabenaas' wrote:
I like the feeling of how technological decay in PS:Torment’s graphics (rusty bolts, useless wires, buildings like stranded UFOs) is contrasting to the Victorian setting in the Lady’s Ward and the high fantasy elements in general. This grotesque mixture is one of Planescape’s central benefits, to me.

I'd take this one step further and say that the grotesque mixture only goes to further prove how much of Sigil is based off of Victorian England (specifically, London). I remember reading somewhere (no clue where) that one of the original authors of Planescape had a copy of Victorian Underworld on hand; I've read it myself and highly recommend it to anyone. A lot of the flavor in the book is directly transferable into Planescape as-is, and it's great for explaining the tribalism of the "Hive" and the mindset of its ever-so-cunning criminal elements--as well as the technology they employed.

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Alternate-History Technologies in Planescape?

I came up with a bunch of ideas on the subject with this thread.

Anwald's picture
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Alternate-History Technologies in Planescape?

I too think that steam technology and associated aesthetics blends well with the Victorian trappings of the Planescape Campaign Setting, and most of all with Sigil. One can expect more fantastic vistas in planes such as Elysium or Arborea. In either case, how would steam technology change the logistics and tactics of the Blood War? Would fiends enter the battlefield on locomotives or fight with steam tanks? Would keepers of knowledge across the planes store their information in analog computers such as difference engines?

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Alternate-History Technologies in Planescape?

'Anwald' wrote:
I too think that steam technology and associated aesthetics blends well with the Victorian trappings of the Planescape Campaign Setting, and most of all with Sigil. One can expect more fantastic vistas in planes such as Elysium or Arborea. In either case, how would steam technology change the logistics and tactics of the Blood War? Would fiends enter the battlefield on locomotives or fight with steam tanks? Would keepers of knowledge across the planes store their information in analog computers such as difference engines?

Fiends in tanks? That whole 'Squaring the Circle' adventure had those.
Computers? Well, Mimir's are basically oddly shaped CD's. Hell, they're even rainbow-shiny like that.

The only difference is that with as much magic, particularly cumbersome technologies never get the chance to flourish. The simpler stuff - watches, hot air balloons, trains, flintlocks, etc... they doubtlessly exist.

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