Abusing 3.0 Telekinesis

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Zimrazim's picture
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Factol
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Abusing 3.0 Telekinesis

AKA: Don't Attack a Githyanki Inside an Armory

How many weapons can you fit into a single 10x10 square?

According to a strict reading of the 3.0 Psionics Handbook, a 1st-level githyanki could telekinese every weapon in said 10x10 square (technically, it could probably be a 10x10x10 cube) at a target in one round.

Assuming that every weapon hits the target, and every weapon does the maximum possible damage (edit: standard damage, not critical damage), what is the theoretical maximum amount of damage that this 1st-level githyanki could inflict in one round?

Assumptions:
Every weapon is nonmagical/nonpsionic. Normal weapon stats.
Every weapon is a melee weapon.
Since the 1st-level githyanki manifests this power as a 16th level psion, the total weight limit is 400 pounds of weaponry. They must also all fit within the 10x10 (or maybe 10x10x10) space.

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BoGr Guide to Missile Combat:
1) Equip a bow or crossbow.
2) Roll a natural 1 on d20.
3) ?????
4) Profit!

weishan's picture
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Factor
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Abusing 3.0 Telekinesis

Alchemist's fire. :twisted:

400d6 and 400 DC 15 saves to avoid catching fire)

Zimrazim's picture
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Abusing 3.0 Telekinesis

'weishan' wrote:
Alchemist's fire. :twisted:

400d6 and 400 DC 15 saves to avoid catching fire)

Brilliant! Laughing out loud

OK, so... 2400 fire damage?

__________________

BoGr Guide to Missile Combat:
1) Equip a bow or crossbow.
2) Roll a natural 1 on d20.
3) ?????
4) Profit!

Hymneth's picture
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Abusing 3.0 Telekinesis

Hmmm, that's an interesting question. I'll try it out, if I can make some assumptions:

I'm assuming that the way the spell goes in 3.0 is that each weapon thrown actually deals its listed damage instead of the whole 400 pounds dealing damage as bulk weight.

You said only melee weapons.

I'm assuming that none of the weapons will be dealing criticals, just so the math is easier on me.

I'm just using the stats for weapons from the 3.5 SRD that I have at hand.

It looks like the best damage/weight ratio for the SRD melee weapons is the siangham with 1d6 damage and 1lb weight for an average of 3.5 damage/pound. With 400 pounds of those winging through the air, that's an average of 1400 damage per turn, with a maximum of 2400.

If you really want to get abusive, then I'd include Darts as a reasonable weapon to be thrown with telekinesis. They deal 1d4 damage and weigh 1/2 pound each, for an average of 5 damage per pound. That raises the average for 400 pounds to 2000, with a maximum of 3200.

Yeesh. No wonder the Githyanki rule the astral. They must just travel around in galleons full of darts. . .

(Edit) Wow, answers to that one came hard and fast. The alchemists fire idea is interesting, and I hadn't thought of that. However, Darts are 1gp/lb and Siangham are 3gp/pound, and Alchemists fire is 20gp/lb. The Gith would be a bit more poor, but man could they burn things

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Factor
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Abusing 3.0 Telekinesis

The draw from the alchemist's fire is that you're attacking a square, rather than a character, so fewer attacks will miss. 400 pts of splash damage too.

Hymneth's picture
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Abusing 3.0 Telekinesis

Actually, abusing the Darts even further, a Tiny Dart deals 1d2 damage and weighs 1/8 pound. That means they average 12 damage per pound, for an average of 4800 damage per 400 pounds, with a maximum of 6400 damage.

I think my math is right, but I'm infamous for dodgy math, so take it with a grain of salt

Zimrazim's picture
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Abusing 3.0 Telekinesis

Yeah, darts and alchy fire will qualify, even if they aren't really 'melee' weapons. I was really thinking "no bows or crossbows."

__________________

BoGr Guide to Missile Combat:
1) Equip a bow or crossbow.
2) Roll a natural 1 on d20.
3) ?????
4) Profit!

Hymneth's picture
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Abusing 3.0 Telekinesis

Further abuse!

I realize this is probably outside the rules, but I'm just trying to be ludicrous at this point. Making a weapon out of mithril halves the weight, and it is not an inherently magical metal on its own.

That would make the average damage for one pound of Tiny mithril darts 24, so 400 pounds would deal an average of 9600 damage, with a maximum of 12800.

Now it's silly (and about 501gp per pound, so it loses on the price scale now)

Zimrazim's picture
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Abusing 3.0 Telekinesis

'Hymneth' wrote:
Further abuse!

I realize this is probably outside the rules, but I'm just trying to be ludicrous at this point. Making a weapon out of mithril halves the weight, and it is not an inherently magical metal on its own.

That would make the average damage for one pound of Tiny mithril darts 24, so 400 pounds would deal an average of 9600 damage, with a maximum of 12800.

Now it's silly (and about 501gp per pound, so it loses on the price scale now)

Is that maximum standard damage, non-crit? (What's the maximum crit damage possible from 400 pounds of tiny mithril darts?)

(Yes, your assumption is correct -- TK deals normal weapon damage, but no damage bonuses from STR/DEX, weapon-related feats, or whatever.)

__________________

BoGr Guide to Missile Combat:
1) Equip a bow or crossbow.
2) Roll a natural 1 on d20.
3) ?????
4) Profit!

Hymneth's picture
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Abusing 3.0 Telekinesis

Yeah, that's non-crit damage.

Normal darts are 1/2 pound, Small are 1/4 pound and Tiny are 1/8 pound. Mithril reduces that to 1/16 pound. Tiny darts deal 1d2 damage, so that means you have 16 x 400 d2 or 6400d2 damage for 400 pounds of the things. And that averages to 9600 damage.

If you include possible crits, then that raises the maximum conceivable damage to 25600 for 400 pounds, but I don't even want to think of the odds of rolling 6400 natural 20s in a row (plus acceptible confirmations).

(Edit) Interestingly, if you continue down the size chart, then logically a Diminuitive Dart would weigh 1/16 pound and deal 1 point of damage. That means that 400 pounds of mithril ones would deal exactly 12800 damage, with a maximum crit damage of 25600. No maximum change, but a higher "average" damage.

The next step down would be a Fine Dart, which according to the damage charts would not even deal damage, but at this point we're talking about darts the size of an eyelash, so I suppose I'll let that one slide. Sticking out tongue

Zimrazim's picture
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Abusing 3.0 Telekinesis

"What are the bloody 'yankis DOING with all those mithril darts???"

"That's a bleeding lot of 'Pin the tail on the barbarian' if you ask me."

__________________

BoGr Guide to Missile Combat:
1) Equip a bow or crossbow.
2) Roll a natural 1 on d20.
3) ?????
4) Profit!

Jack of tears's picture
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re

See now, cost wise that just isn't going to float ... and it sure takes a great deal of settup ... but, could a 'yank carry a sack of darts around with him - say 100 darts - and toss them all in a round with this TK? Sure you're only looking at about 100-200 dmg, but that is nothing to sneaze at.

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Abusing the rules

I'ts hard, though, if you're a game designer, to spot loopholes like that and keep them from slipping in, unless you write enough text for each spell to rule out all such possibilities... and then you're looking at a Player's Handbook that weights about a ton! Also, even if you had as much text as you wanted, you'd never think of every little thing... I'ts humanly impossible...

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Abusing 3.0 Telekinesis

That's not even counting what my group calls 'the shotput of doom'. Direct damage by weight is 1d6/100lb, which you can add another 100lb per level. So all you have to do is find a small heavy enough object. Plantium is dense enough to last you up to 30 levels and still be a manageable single target shotput and 1d6/level non capping damage. Get two wizards with a TK ring or haste and they're pumping out 15d6 multiple times a round.

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Abusing 3.0 Telekinesis

'Clueless' wrote:
That's not even counting what my group calls 'the shotput of doom'. Direct damage by weight is 1d6/100lb, which you can add another 100lb per level. So all you have to do is find a small heavy enough object. Plantium is dense enough to last you up to 30 levels and still be a manageable single target shotput and 1d6/level non capping damage. Get two wizards with a TK ring or haste and they're pumping out 15d6 multiple times a round.

If you put spikes on it the damage doubles Eye-wink

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Abusing 3.0 Telekinesis

I am so playing a 1st-level githyanki on my next campaign.

Your party runs into the Dark Lord Evilmort, a dark wizard feared throughout the planes.
Normal Party: Start running (unless any one of your PCs happens to have a lightning-shaped scar).
My Party: Let me just get out my mythril darts....

This is going to be fun.

weishan's picture
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Factor
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Abusing 3.0 Telekinesis

400 lb. molten lava. Not exactly portable, but being immersed in molten lava does rather a lot of damage per round in addition to the kinetic energy damage.

Hymneth's picture
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Abusing 3.0 Telekinesis

Hmmm. Not a bad idea, although I imagine the magma would cool quickly once it hit its target. Then again, the target would find themselves trapped in an uncomfortably tight fitting hot rock suit, so I suppose it evens out

Zeniel's picture
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Abusing 3.0 Telekinesis

That being said how many darts could the Lich queen(if she were still alive and kicking) throw around?

Zimrazim's picture
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Abusing 3.0 Telekinesis

'Zeniel' wrote:
That being said how many darts could the Lich queen(if she were still alive and kicking) throw around?

Depends on whether she retained her racial psionic abilities upon becoming undead. Laughing out loud A few undead are psionic, but most aren't.

__________________

BoGr Guide to Missile Combat:
1) Equip a bow or crossbow.
2) Roll a natural 1 on d20.
3) ?????
4) Profit!

Zimrazim's picture
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Abusing 3.0 Telekinesis

"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"

"I think so, Brain, but where are we going to find 400 pounds of tiny mithril darts?"

__________________

BoGr Guide to Missile Combat:
1) Equip a bow or crossbow.
2) Roll a natural 1 on d20.
3) ?????
4) Profit!

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Abusing 3.0 Telekinesis

'Zimrazim' wrote:
"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"

"I think so, Brain, but where are we going to find 400 pounds of tiny mithril darts?"

Ah, if only they were tiny Githyanki instead of mice. The world would already be theirs. . .

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Abusing 3.0 Telekinesis

Major creation to make 1/ cu ft./level worth of pointy mithril things. You'd have to calculate weight by volume, which involves math...hate math. They'd only last for 1 round/level, but that's really an advantage, people can't steal all of your mithril darts.

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Abusing 3.0 Telekinesis

Nameless one could! :x

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