A different d20

Persephone Imytholin's picture

Some of you may remember that, on the old boards, we were developing a different take on the d20 system to take care of a few things, namely:

1. Modifying d20M to suit a setting heavy in supernatural elements
2. Adding modern / somewhat cyberpunk elements to 'default' d20
3. Completely decoupling class and profession
4. Adding flexibility in character development

Comments? Opinions?

TheRoastSlinky's picture
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A different d20

Yep. The profession/class idea is a brilliant one.

One thing. With all the talents, what's the need for feats? What feats does a mage take if he can take all the things he needs as class or profession talents? This problem needs to be resovled.

Persephone Imytholin's picture
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A different d20

The idea is more for the talents to replace the class benefits and bonus feats, so things that don't really tie to a specific class can stay as feats - frex, an iron will helps everyone.

The other thought I had was that using something like Xan's scalable templates for factions and sects would tie in perfectly with separating class and profession (class, profession, beliefs - rule of threes anyone?).

Emperor Xan's picture
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A different d20

It's apparent to myself and others that a bit of adjustment is needed for some of the templates.

Persephone Imytholin's picture
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That's ok. The idea looks rather nice to me, and I imagine the final version would fit rather nicely.

Krypter's picture
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A different d20

I can't resist voting on these polls, but I'd like to see more info about what you've done. How about making it a completely skill-based system loosely based on d20M? I find that class and profession pigeonholing works well with historical settings but breaks down in modern settings. This is probably because modern people have a huge choice of what they want to learn and do, while medieval peasants were pretty much locked-in to what their fathers did. Even mercenaries were often from mercenary families.

I run my own rules system for Planescape, so I can't contribute much to UP d20M, but I can prod a little, right? Smiling

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A different d20

Krypter, that's why the generic qualities of the d20M classes work so well: the Tough Hero, the Smart Hero, etc. You can choose from any number of professions.

Persephone Imytholin's picture
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We've been working with generic classes the other way around - they're built on typical PC archetypes (Fighter, Sneak, Arcane Caster, Divine Caster and Psionicist) and no multiclassing penalties. It seems appropriate for these to be the only classes - no advanced classes or prestige classes here, unless absolutely necessary.

Basically anything else becomes a profession (Soldier, Thief, Witch, Priest, Pyrokinet), and gets its own special talents - the idea being that the five basic classes can be mixed appropriately for any character, and professions can multiply in the same way as classes do elsewhere. Professional talent trees usually start with one that has no prerequisites, and gives you the 'class' skills appropriate to it (though I can imagine the set of class skills being used as a prerequisite for the next talents).

What'd be really interesting is to get it to a point where traditional classes or d20M classes can be swapped in as desired, though it might be easier to build a fast and easy conversion system.

Completely skills-based is really, really hard to get to work in d20. I've tried. Twice.

LegatoX's picture
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A different d20

So essentially, you are looking at doing something like a Class & Kit system like 2nd edition D&D had? That's the impression I get at least. I was fond of that system myself.

Alhesander's picture
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How would faction ties fit in? Talent tree's instead of feats? assuming we see faction based prs. classes from PW would there be modern ones?

Persephone Imytholin's picture
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LagatoX, not quite (though it was a nice way of doing things...). Imagine classes and kits, where any class could take any kit. Anyone can do basically any job, provided they meet the prerequisites for whatever talents they want to take - an Arcane Caster could take Soldier talents, for example.

Alhesander, that's part of what I'd like to see Xan's scalable templates do once the idea's suitably refined. Your beliefs shouldn't affect your character's own advancement, and I think that most faction abilities should come with an appropriate drawback.

That said, faction stuff that gives a pure advantage would be best represented in faction talents. I doubt there's anything that absolutely needs to be a completely new class.

LegatoX's picture
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A different d20

Sounds cool to me then.

Korimyr the Rat's picture
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A different d20

I haven't seen the old work, so I shan't comment on it.

However, I really think that the best bet for a modern or futuristic Planescape is to use the d20 Modern ruleset, though with some degree of expansion in the FX areas. D&D races can be ported into d20 Modern fairly easily (see Urban Arcana), and new Occupations could either be culled from Urban Arcana or invented wholecloth for certain atypical ideas-- such as Gith occupations and some of the very odd FX-based professions that Planescape would produce.

Interloper's picture
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A different d20

I read some of the stuff on the old site, but I don't think anyone ever finalised anything. Are you lot planning on posting even a work-in-progress set of classes/professions/talents anytime soon? And if you do, am I legally allowed to use said classes/professions/talents in a book I plan on publishing?

Please please please say yes to both questions (jeez I sound sad)

Persephone Imytholin's picture
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A different d20

I've been meaning to do just that for a bit, now - I just haven't quite been in a game mechanics mood recently, though. There was some talk of a page in the UPP section of the site for it, but I'm not entirely certain if that's going anywhere for a bit.

The base classes will almost definitely be OGC, since a fair bit of SRD/MSRD stuff is likely to be rearranged to fit. I'll probably bash out some kind of rough profession guidelines, and then try to find a volunteer to fill in some of them. If needed, it might even be possible to sneak it through the d20 trademark licence.

So yes, and yes (under the relevent licence terms). And I'll try not to ask for a free copy. Eye-wink

=== ETA ===
I use OpenOffice.org, rather than MS Office. That means native documents are in .sxw (staroffice) format, though it's not hard to export to others. What kind of file format does everyone like?

Eyeohn's picture
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A different d20

Great! I can't wait to see the rough copy.

Interloper's picture
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A different d20

Quote:
The base classes will almost definitely be OGC, since a fair bit of SRD/MSRD stuff is likely to be rearranged to fit. I'll probably bash out some kind of rough profession guidelines, and then try to find a volunteer to fill in some of them. If needed, it might even be possible to sneak it through the d20 trademark licence.

So yes, and yes (under the relevent licence terms). And I'll try not to ask for a free copy.

w00t! Laughing out loud ahem...

I'd be willing to help with the professions, if you want

Persephone Imytholin's picture
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*nods* That'd be good. Slinky, if you still want to do profession stuff then that's good too.

I've had another look through my notes, and I'm looking at a couple of tweaks to the way talents are handled, and maybe slipping in an extra thing or two.

Interloper's picture
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ok, this post is to show my eager anticipation of the UPL Classes.

nag nag nag nag nag nag etc..... ad infinitum

Persephone Imytholin's picture
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A different d20

This post is to show that I've got a very, very good idea of how things fit together, and now I just need to figure out how to get my notes to go from a loosely organised network of points and ideas to a neatly organised thing that others can understand.

Interloper's picture
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A different d20

REPEAT: will help in any way I can, including editing stuff

Persephone Imytholin's picture
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A different d20

Except that, for there to be something to edit, I need to sort out some way of turning it into linear text (which is something I'm working on right now)

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