3Ed factols

Told you I would back.

 It wasnt in a book. It was a forum post

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=372956

 Ripvanwormer my old friend, I do love you for being the first result on google when I search for Factol Skall. This means I have found some of what I was looking for and also that I can now get some sleep

 Instead of hammering this thread, if I find anymore I will just edit it

For you my dear, of course

 What would you like? Old Factols, new leaders, both?

If so its gonna take a little research on my part to find out what classes we have that are either assumed or canon with regards to the Factols themselves (oh and alignments would be handy). So yeah, if anyone knows anything about the Factols send me a message so I dont make a fool of myself and make Skall a monk or something

Nah. Fighter 2/Wizard 15 according to planar handbook. Then again, thats the same book which said the lady was LN. Yeah, centre of the TN plane and shes lawful. But seriously. Ill write them up if people want

Barking_Wilder wrote:

Nah. Fighter 2/Wizard 15 according to planar handbook. Then again, thats the same book which said the lady was LN. Yeah, centre of the TN plane and shes lawful. But seriously. Ill write them up if people want

That book also came out before The Tome of Battle: The Book of Swords where the Swordsage class was introduced, and happens to be a far better fit for Rhys and many Ciphers.

In-game, nobody knows your class levels. Would you challenge a factol?  Not a lot of people will, and a factol is going to have a lot of protection simply from the organization.  You can play Hashkar as a petitioner with a few levels in Expert and the appropriate Guvner feats, and who's gonna call him on it?  :^)  There are plenty of historical examples of people who obtained positions of great power and turned out to be horribly unqualified, with some failing spectacularly and some who grew into the role.

 One copper to the person who can come up with a recent example of someone in a position of power who is unqualified and failing spectacularly (And thats my political quota filled for the year, back to counting chickens )

 And Sarah, i'll do some research and take a look. Im guessing its a little easier to submit now right?

The only caveat to the suggestion of just reflecting them with belief abilities ad hoc, is that a lot of players like to have NPCs that are reflected solidly in the rules. In some small way it allows them comfort in the idea that they could do they same. It seems more fair that way.

What I would suggest in your design is this - assume that a factol of any faction is going to be focused on their belief. To the exclusion of *other* things. So, unlike a PC who will parcel out one or two feats to a faction related power, while saving the rest for more 'useful' abilities, a Factol will blow every feat they can on belief like there's no tommorrow. As mentioned before, enough levels of Expert to get the Guvnor feats is all you really *need* to successfully portray Haskar. And there is that nifty "Faction Freak" prestigue class in the PSCS designed to get you faction feats in a hurry. I think that class ought to show up a lot in these cases.

I know - I just asked you to fly and walk and swim all at once - "do it with the rules, but also no need to go hogwild on levels". I get that - it'll be hard to balance out. But I think it's possible and worthwhile to do so.

The factols don't have to be powerful when compared to PCs. Obvious exceptions (Skall, Rhys, etc) would have more power in addition - but focus on the belief powers first in your builds. Afterall - one leads a faction by force of belief and happenstance in the political system, not by force of arms or wizardly might. (Well ok, maybe for the Takers. But you get what I mean.)

Suffice to say, I rarely see the argument that a Senator in any given campaign kingdom must have 20 levels of fighter in order to hold political power and that without the levels he is underqualified. No - he got there by other means, dare I say it... roleplayed means. Why on earth should we have that logic in this case? Just because PCs are also in the group the NPC is in charge of? That doesn't mean the group will follow them or even *like* them givent he mouths I've seen on most player characters.

To answer your question re: submission being easier. It should be, yes. The basic workflow is the same but the code itself is more robust now. Really it should be more a matter of relearnign where all the buttons are. (Plus, we have Blogs! ) So scream if you get stuck on where to find that stuff.

It doesnt take nigh on 40 levels to raid the Nine Hells and live. A cleric with the right domains multi-classed with Ranger as it seems he is would be able to tackle more than enough fiends to make a name for himself before healing up and popping back through a portal covered in blood and apparently being no worse for wear.

I used to have my Barking Wilder character making frequent excursions into Baator (albeit with the rest of his party) by level 12, just to cause trouble. He got his first taste of the nastiness around level 8 and could hold his own by playing cleverly (and a bit of good rolling) by 10th level. Keep in mind he was largely rogue (converted his fighter levels to Chaotician when Planar Handbook came out) and so wasnt meant to stand up to the damaging melee.

 No, id say the Lady has a problem with Epic characters walking around Sigil en mass. Like we have established, Skall and Rhys are largely benign and are not looking to crack open the cage so she leaves them alone until they cause problems. But Karan can be expained away with rogue levels, at a push maybe a slight touch of bard and then it would be the beautiful Faction Freak class to assist with those feats. Hashkar? Faction Freak/Fighter or something around that area. I think it would go too far to claim his lawful bent would make him a Paladin as it is not mentioned anywhere I have found.

Does anyone have a list of Past Factols and Current Leaders/Factols? 

The list is taken from the 2nd edition book The Factol's Manifesto, which included short stat blocks on the various factols.  There listed Charisma scores were:

Athar:  Factol Terrance, Cha 16

Believers of the Source:  Factol Ambar Vergrove, Cha 17

Bleak Cabal:  Factol Lhar, Cha 8

Doomguard:  Factol Pentar, Cha 18

Dustmen:  Factol Skall, Cha 10

The Fated:  Factol Rowan Darkwood, Cha 18

The Fraternity of Order:  Factol Hashkar, Cha 8 (Int 24)

The Free League:  Bria Tomay, c17;  Lethea and Lesander, 6th level fighters, Cha 14

The Harmonium:  Factol Sarin, Cha 17

The Red Death:  Factol Alisohn Nilesia, Cha 17

Revolutionary League:  Beringe, Cha 14

The Sign of One:  Factol Darius, Cha 16

Society of Sensation:  Factol Montgomery, Cha 18

Transcendent Order:  Factol Rhys, Cha 18

The Xaositects:  Factol Karan, Cha 17

I believe that scores higher than 18 were very rare (at least for Cha) in 2nd, so those scores are pretty impressive.

As far as templates go, many of the factols were given special abilities regardless of level. 

I agree that there should be a guideline that applies to both NPCs and PCs. What I mean is, that the affiliation system from PHB II is the best way to represent the powers of faction belief, in my opinion. It's also the easiest way to make sure that noone tries to mix faction abilities by taking certain PrCs that normally represent them.