Any psionic technology? (Psionically empowered rather than magically enchanted.) For that matter, psi-tech fits well into science fiction already...
Can magical spells be used to create effects that are normally only possible with modern technology?
Musings on Modern Planescape (Technology)
Well, as it happens, I've been pondering running a modern/near future Planescape game, This post is an intellectual excercise of sorts, bouncing my take on the idea around. While I have nothing against the modern planescape project--it's damn good work--the project's approach doesn't really suit my style of DMing.
So, here goes.
- Technology level: Planescape works best with a slighlty higher tech feel than some of the other published settings. I know I don't feel like moron if I make my Planescape games feel more steampunky than most D&D. I think the same applies if you want a modern game--the compination of races, many smarter than regular humans should mean better technology.
- I like a cyberpunky level of tech, but less cyber and punky--more balanced, and well thought out--materials science, computing, cybernetics, weapons tech, biotech, etc. all combing in one technological soup.
- On the other hand, magic is fast and easy, especially for said smart races--technology's benefit is it's accesability, not so much it's power. This may keep the best general technology in the hands of short-lived mortals who are more inclined to use technology--outsiders, among other things would probably stick to magic, perhaps adopting modern weapons and armor
- These assumptions only work if there is some restrictions in how magic and tech interract. Metaphysical explainations can come later, but the urban planescape explaination of why guns are so hard to enchant feels sound--that is they have to be enchanted part for part--insanely complicated and expensive
- This does not exclude full magic, but a magic user may have Harry Dresden style problems when dealing with technology. It serves as a balancing factor of sorts.
- Tech is probably different than we would envision it. The planes ar not 21st century earth. We'd never see the kinds of fighter aircraft around toady on a Blood War battlefield for example--the planes we know were built for standoff range conflict and air superiority in the Cold War. Fighter planes in the Blood War would be more similar to late WWII jet aircraft: cheap, numerous, and relying on guns as their main armament, probably more heavily armored too. Consideration has to be given to this.
- Reactionary groups--especially magic users--add a new element and perhaps a new faction (or sect) as well
- 1421 reads
Tue, 2008-12-09 07:18
#3
Any psionic technology?
Tue, 2008-12-09 09:13
#4
Why do you think that?
Why do you think that? Modern fighter aircraft are designed for conventional warfare, and are plenty suited to the bloodwar. Air superiority is important for both neutralizing enemyfighters, and so that your fighter/bombers and attack helicopters can wipe out enemy armor and artillery. Dropping a fuel-air bomb would be just as effective in the blood war, unless of course your opponent happened to be immune to fire 3:>. In general though, any modern piece of equipment I can think of would translate fine to the bloodwar as long as a plane did not inhibit its funciton (Any plane without air would prevent lift for example).
It would translate fine in that it still works in many roles--it is designed to after all. But it is not the most effective design--a fighter plane as we know it is expensive and logistically demanding to run (there's not much time for maintainance in the Blood War). With that in mind, they may not have developed at all. It's also quite fragile (a bird in the intake is fatal after all). Sheer weight of numbers is essential. planes like the A-10 would also excell (but would be rare because of cost). Probably, interceptors, and strateigic bombers do exist, but they would not make up the bulk of the aircraft involved in the blood war and would have other things to do than throw themselves at blood war battle.
Similarly, a modern main battle tank would make a reasonably good account of itself in the blood war, but the modern MBT is an indepedant weapons platform, again designed with long range combat in mind. Tanks designed with a more WWII approach in mind (that is to lead a charge and crack defensive positions) would be more successful as a group(much cheaper, and more numerous)
In general, 21st century warefare puts a lot of eggs into one very scary basket and hopes for the sake of it's budget that most of the eggs survive. WWII's approach was simpler--you could probably make and operate at least 10 (if not more) WWII tanks for the cost of a modern MBT.
There also the consideration of tech restrictions--a modern plane with all it's avionics and sensors wouldn't be able to fly on a blood war battlefield by my assumptions.
Artillery would probably replace bombers in the blood war--it's far cheaper and simpler, for one and chucking Very Large Bombs at your enemies without running the risk the plane getting shot down is good. On a smaller scale (or maybe not), automatic artillery is also distinct possibility. Scrying makes it easy to fire from a safe distance.
Any psionic technology? (Psionically empowered rather than magically enchanted.) For that matter, psi-tech fits well into science fiction already...
Can magical spells be used to create effects that are normally only possible with modern technology?
No to the first question. From a balance perspective, this is unworkable (nobody would play a wizard). Psionics would also disrupt tech regardless of magic/psi transperancy.
Magic can be used to do almost anything. I'm generous with spell research. This is one reason it still exists. For people who know magic by study or by nature, it is easier than technology and can do the same things with similar effort. It can also laugh in the face of physics, further reducing limits (especialy thermodynamics)
Tue, 2008-12-09 13:54
#5
When thinking WW II
When thinking WW II technology, the Allies used Sherman tanks in massed numbers, and usually a handfull of Panter and Tiger tanks destroyed them most of the time.
The only thing that helped was sheer numbers of Sherman tanks and the close air support of P-51 Mustangs and P-47 Thunderbolts. Heck, even the Germans juse the Stuka and the JU-88 for CAS (Close Air Support).
So I think that in the Blood war ,the forces of the Abyss might have something along the quanity or quality, the forces of the hells would have something along the lines of the whold combined arms rule of war.
So something to think about?
Alexi
Tue, 2008-12-09 16:39
#6
Even so, German tanks were
Even so, German tanks were still proportionately cheaper than a modern MBT (maybe not 10:1 but still signifigantly), which is my point. I'm not actually sugesting using literal WWII tech. Infernal armies would be technologically superior and numerically inferior (as always) but numbers are still key and fielding insanely sophisticated and expensive military hardware isn't wise. Both sides would be fielding simple tanks but simple tanks built with the knowledge and technology of the time (propperly sloped armor, superior engines, advanced materials science etc.)
Tue, 2008-12-09 17:53
#7
I dunno. A modern main
I dunno. A modern main battle tank could destroy hundreds, if not thousands of WW2 tanks because it is superior in every way. Far faster, much greater range and accuracy, much more devestating rounds, and far superior armor. They have independent suspension and targeting systems that allow them to shoot and move accurately. WW2 tanks literally would not even be able to hurt the thing. One modern MBT could have literally turned the tide of major WW2 battles. Same thing with modern fighter aircraft. WW2 aircraft wouldn't be able to touch an F15, let alone an F22. A modern fighter would have complete air dominance, and would basically just pick WW2 era aircraft out of the sky uncontested. Numbers is not a sufficient criteria to win a battle. You have to at least be able to hurt the enemy. Modern armor and aircraft would be virtually untouchable on a WW2 battlefield, without even getting into the strategic superiority of modern arms (modern jets having a gigantic threat range, rapid response capabilities, etc). They would pay for themselves many times over in enemy aircraft destroyed. Just like at how disparate even a small jump in aircraft technology was in the Korean war.
Tue, 2008-12-09 19:26
#8
I'm talking about using
I'm talking about using modern armor, and technology in such a way that it's cheaper and more mass produceable than an earth equivilant. Not WWII tech. With modern engine tech, a tank the size and duribility, and firepower of an M1A1 is no problem at all and probably the norm. The electronics are because of the magic plays merry hell with electronics rule makes some other things rather more difficult (night vision optics, advanced sighting, etc.). This is doubly true with fighter planes since radar, advanced avionics, sensors, etc. are the biggest advantage of modern jets. It also bears noting that the blood war happens on a REALLY BIG scale we aren't talking about a few thousand planes, we're talking about hundreds of thousands. Think of how hard it is to maintain 100,000 F22s. Harder than maitaining a lot (like a million lot) of simple, fast, heavily armored jets less the avionics and sensors) A dependance on electronics is also a weakness if you bring magic into the picture--easy to disrupt.
Edit: While I hesitate to drag the Grim Darkness of the Far Future into this, the Leman Russ is a good exmple of what I'd expect (advanced armor by modern standards, very large gun, simple, cheap as dirt, and easily manufactured from anything at hand, even wood--should is a wholly different matter).
Tue, 2008-12-09 20:42
#9
I dunno. In some sense when
I dunno. In some sense when you have magic around, whatever direction you settle on is kind of arbitrary, so you might as well do what works thematically. Regardless of what is more "realistic" I think thematically the idea of large scale WW2 type tech is far more appropriate and entertaining. The idea of demons with helmets in foxholes trying to blow up a sherman tank is simplyfar too amusing to pass up.
Tue, 2008-12-09 21:01
#10
You know that actually
You know that actually raises some rather amusing possibilities. I'd have great fun with that.
Tech is probably different than we would envision it. The planes ar not 21st century earth. We'd never see the kinds of fighter aircraft around toady on a Blood War battlefield for example--the planes we know were built for standoff range conflict and air superiority in the Cold War. Fighter planes in the Blood War would be more similar to late WWII jet aircraft: cheap, numerous, and relying on guns as their main armament, probably more heavily armored too. Consideration has to be given to this.
Why do you think that? Modern fighter aircraft are designed for conventional warfare, and are plenty suited to the bloodwar. Air superiority is important for both neutralizing enemyfighters, and so that your fighter/bombers and attack helicopters can wipe out enemy armor and artillery. Dropping a fuel-air bomb would be just as effective in the blood war, unless of course your opponent happened to be immune to fire 3:>. In general though, any modern piece of equipment I can think of would translate fine to the bloodwar as long as a plane did not inhibit its funciton (Any plane without air would prevent lift for example).