Would natives of the Feywild or the Shadowfell be considered Primes or Planars?

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elderbrain
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Would natives of the Feywild or the Shadowfell be considered Primes or Planars?

Given the close relationship between the Feywild, Shadowfell and the Prime Material Plane (as defined in 4e and 5e), would you say that natives of those planes should be counted as Primes, or not?

Jem
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Hmm. Well, you're mapping

Hmm. Well, you're mapping later concepts onto earlier definitions, but, you raise a good point. The Feywild and the Shadowfell are planes, but they're planes very "close" to the Prime.

Let's see... in 3e, a ghost is native to both the Prime and the Ethereal, and is not considered extraplanar -- in the 2e equivalent, it would be considered a prime, not a planar. The ethereal filcher hunts from the Border Ethereal and is not considered extraplanar, while the ethereal marauder is strictly ethereal and is considered extraplanar. Creatures from the Plane of Shadow were considered extraplanar; fey, of course, were not.

Honestly I'd say you could make a good case for either. I think I would eventually come down on the case of natives of the Feywild and Shadowfell being considered planar, since I believe they can be banished back "home."

It might be interesting but complicated to make the definition malleable! Perhaps their special position close to the Prime lets them choose, once (only changing it after many adventures): if they feel closely connected to the Prime, they can be considered primes, can't be banished, aren't subject to "protection from whatever" spells, and the like, but also can't see portals naturally and are treated as primes by cosmopolitan planars, whereas if they feel more otherworldly, they might be considered planars for all these effects.

Palomides
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My take

I agree with Jem; it is largely what you consider it to be (as I'm not aware of any "official" take on the subject).

Personally, I like each of the planar groups (Outer, Inner and Prime) to have a pair of axes (axises?). The Outer have Good-Evil and Law-Chaos. The Inner have Fire-Water and Earth-Air.
On the Prime my first axis is Probability which allows me to justify parallel worlds where there are little changes (e.g. a world where someone else is the mayor) or large changes (e.g. where Sauron won and orcs rule the world).
My second axis has the Feywilds on one end and the Shadowfell on the other. The former is from where the impulse that creates life originates and the later is where the call of death eventually calls all life from the Prime. I consider the Feywilds and the Shadowfell to be the points in the Prime that touch upon the Outer planes (touching Elysium and the Grey Wastes respectively). I considered the Shadowfell to be the last staging point of the Prime wherein a soul can still be called back via Resurrection before it passes on to the "Great Beyond"

Jem
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Palomides: so your Prime

Palomides: so your Prime organizing axes are "Vitus/Mortis" and "Rhyme/Reason"? :^D

(Just joking. These are two of the organizing axes of the worlds in Seanan McGuire's "Wayward Children" series.)

But seriously, since you have the Feywild touching Elysium and the Shadowfell touching the Grey Waste I'd almost imagine that all of the axes are possible to mix: so that you might have

(Fire/Water, Earth/Air, Vitus/Mortis, Rhyme/Reason, Good/Evil, Law/Chaos)

as the coordinates of a world, each with three states (one neutral), for a total of 3^6 = 729 worlds not counting interstitials.

(Idly throws 6 3-sided dice randomly, gets (3,2,2,1,2,1): a Watery-neutral, neutral-Reasonable, neutral-Chaotic world: so one dominated by Water, Reason, and Chaos: a watery world where actions have meaning and consequence, even though Chaos is ascendant as a physical force.)

Palomides
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Impressed

Jem, I'm impressed.
I actually was thinking along the lines you described but I had visualized it as sort of three overlapping things (Law on the same side as 'probable' and as Earth (because it is solid and unchanging as opposed to Air which I saw overlapping the chaotic side))
I hadn't pushed it to the random world generator idea that you came up with (and which offers a lot more potential than where I started)